Hunters for Dummies

[HipNo34]

As an aside, but related… someone upstream used the phrase “like watching paint dry” – granted I’m taking that comment out of context but, more than a few months back, I had the livestream on from Brandywine while cleaning. I couldn’t believe how invested I got watching kids I didn’t know in some 2’6" or so classes, pulling for them to improve their scores from one round to the next and cheering when they did. I suddenly found myself wondering if that’s why some people get so into high school sports, which I never understood, especially if they didn’t necessarily have a kid playing.

The more educated my eye becomes, the more I enjoy watching hunters any level. Though granted no one’s forcing me to sit through 60 pre-children’s trips, let alone in the blazing sun, cold, or rain And the fine points that make or break a trip aren’t something you pick up fast.

I won’t wade into the ride time argument but, as a kid, going from local shows to rated ones in the old-old days, seeing the orders-of-go posted was a revelation. That felt like a huge convenience after waiting at the in-gate at smaller shows, not knowing if you were ‘on deck’ or ‘in the hole’ until the announcer said so.

[Arlomine]

Well, I currently have a lovely relatively new student.

She started riding in her 50s. Changed disciplines to Eventing after two years. Got a nice Connemara gelding for 10k who had had good foundation dressage work but very little jumping. Started working with an event trainer, moved to another event Trainer, worked her tail off, and won our regions Ammy novice championship last year.
She has been riding for five years.
The horse has never been in full training with a professional unless she’s traveling.

She drives herself all over in her own rig. She preps her own horse. She takes care of every single solitary moment of that Horse’s needs traveling and at shows. She does meet her Event trainer at the shows, but is not one iota as dependent on any of her trainers as your average Hunter rider is expected and trained to be.

Her horse needed to go to a specialist, so she loaded him up and drove five hours one way herself. She is maki g his medical decisions, I (her dressage trainer), and her event trainer consult and add opinions.

So yes, the culture is different. There are MANY more of her in the event world than the hunter world, and the mindset trickles over showing.
And somehow, events run with everyone not only riding their dressage tests on time, but with a system that doesn’t normalize making horses stand around, stiffen up, and then spring into action.

[trubandloki]

@Arlomine, do you really think there are none of those in the hunter world? Is that where you are confused, that you think everyone in the hunter world does nothing for themselves and it is all trainers doing everything?

When I did rated hunter shows I was doing all those things you list. I mailed in my own entries. I packed my own trailer with my own things and trucked my own horse to the show. I set up my own stall, which I cleaned the whole time I was there. I fed my own horse (morning and night). I did pay someone to braid for me because no matter how hard I try I just can not master that skill. If my horse needed lunging, I was the one lunging it. I tacked my own horse. I cooled down my own horse. I washed my own horse. My trainer met me at the warm up ring (though I was stabled with him), he schooled me and watched me go, etc.
At home I arranged for my own farrier and vet care too. All while boarding at my trainer’s barn.

It sounds like you simply want to hate a thing you do not do.

(For the record, if I was going to say I did something at this point in my life (gasp, probably about the same age as your reference person), I would say I event. So… I know both sides of the coin. They are different. Very different. Neither is bad. Neither is amazingly more wonderful than the other. They are different.

[Arlomine]

I said there MORE of “her” in the event world. I didn’t say there were none in the hunter world. Please read what I said again.

I am very familiar with current hunter show standards and practices. Both large rated, and small schooling shows. I stand by what I said, which is that there are far more independent riders produced in the event world than in the hunter world.
I have several close friends who are or/or were hunter jumper trainers, I have close friends who are currently showing jumpers in that world. I give flat lessons to people who do jumpers and event. I have a broader than most exposure to these different worlds.

Things have changed - A Lot - on the last twenty years In The H/J discipline.
And where on earth do you get “hate” from my post? Hyperbole much?

[ThreeWishes]

Perhaps we should stop stereotyping riders by discipline. People are different. I’m sure there are as many dressage riders , eventers, hunters or jumpers who know how to braid, clean their stall or back a horse trailer around a crowded Burger King parking lot. I know I do . There’s really is no one discipline that is most brave, adept or skillful.
Or devoid of trainer influence… just a lovely rainbow of different people trying to do their best on these amazing horses in varying cultures of riding and showing.

[kirbydog]

H/J trainer here!!
Let’s stop bashing one and others disciplines please!
We have a very busy program this is h/j centered, but (GASP!!) we have a resident dressage trainer here, and we have a small cross country course too. I have a few eventers that ship in or winter with us so they can take advantage of my knowledge to improve their stadium skills. We have the dressage guy do lessons to improve both horse and rider on the flat, as your jumps are only as good as your flat. At many of the bigger barns, this is perfectly normal, and it’s not uncommon.
What really gets me is the attitude from the event world that hunter people are all entitled jerks who can’t figure out how to manage themselves. Total BS. And that hunter people can’t ride and are trainer dependent. Again, BS.
Frankly, it has been my personal experience that dressage people are appreciative of what we do, since done well, hunters are dressage with jumps. And the higher you jump, and the faster you go in the jumpers, the more highly educated the horse needs to be on the flat.
Eventers otoh, tend to have no self discipline when it comes to stadium jumping…they are almost always really good at Xcountry, but try to ride the stadium the same way, and it’s not a pretty site. They may not think they need a trainer, but they would be wrong…and they should remember that even in eventing, the best of the best have trainers and coaches

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

I don’t know why you chose to reply to my post because your reply has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

Beyond that, I’l just say, “Yeah, what @trubandloki said.”

[Linny]

I have no patience with one or two ring shows filled with riders needing hand holding, extensive practice and course review before going in while everybody else waits and the only ring sits empty.

The problem is that it is at the “lesser” shows where the more needy clients reside. At the higher levels, the best starters are working and the best organized barns are showing. The next tier or 2 down is where it’s most chaotic because the clients need more guidance and the barns/trainers are not as organized. They are the most in need of corrective measures between trips and least likely to walk in without the trainer in attendance, and most likely to be reprimanded is they do.

[Sarah616]

@Linny

I have no patience with one or two ring shows filled with riders needing hand holding, extensive practice and course review before going in while everybody else waits and the only ring sits empty.

The problem is that it is at the “lesser” shows where the more needy clients reside. At the higher levels, the best starters are working and the best organized barns are showing. The next tier or 2 down is where it’s most chaotic because the clients need more guidance and the barns/trainers are not as organized. They are the most in need of corrective measures between trips and least likely to walk in without the trainer in attendance, and most likely to be reprimanded is they do.

And how exactly do you expect these “needy clients” from the “lesser shows” to get to the point where they are comfortable and capable of going and showing at the higher levels where they don’t need as much hand holding? Everyone needs a place to start; that’s what the local show series were originally created for.

[kirbydog]

it is when the local people use these shows as an end, rather than the means to an end that this happens. so often, it’s big fish+ small pond=big egos You see that so often at the smaller shows.
Even at the really big shows, where you have 5 or 6 rings going, from shorties to grand prix, people seem to have their act together waaaaaay better. Bad behavior is frowned up, cuz we’re all busy

[Ponygirlmom]

My daughter spent last summer doing local schooling shows, and my understanding is that delays and some chaos are just part of the process. School shows are just that - a learning experience for green horses and green riders. That means sometimes a really green horse freaks out and causes chaos and delay. Sometimes a pony is pony-like and runs away with the kid in walk/trot and needs to have a trainer sit on him/her for a refresher on polite behavior before putting a kid back on, causing a delay. Sometimes a horse decides trotting is overrated and walks (incredibly slowly) through the entire trot a pole course, completely ignoring the tiny beginner on his back trying to get him to trot, causing a delay.

Don’t get me wrong - as a parent having to devote my whole weekend to standing around in the heat and humidity sometimes (most of the time) it made me want to pull my hair out. But I also recognized that the schooling show universe depends on giving grace to others who are having a tough time, because you never know when you’ll be the one with the kid/horse freaking out and need others’ grace.

[trubandloki]

@Ponygirlmom, I would like your post more than once if it would let me!!!
You said it all so well.

[HipNo34]

@trubandloki

I would like your post more than once if it would let me!!!

I was just thinking that very thing.

[2bayboys]

What’s wrong with local schooling shows being the “end” rather than the “means to an end”? There are a whole lot of riders who will never ever compete at a rated show, nor do they want to. The local shows provide an affordable option for those riders. And those riders need trainers who will structure their business model to make those local shows a quality alternative and give their clients the education they need to shine at that level.

[kirbydog]

There is nothing wrong with it, but at least around here, there is an arrogance that goes with it. It’s the trainers. There are several local circuit trainers around here that have the attitude of “this is our show, so suck it if you don’t like waiting” Instead of trying to hustle and get things done, they take their sweet time, and don’t care that anyone is waiting for them. So rude. They like being the kings and queens of their own little pond, and they can get away with it bc there are no stewards or anyone, no repercussion
We run 2 schooling shows a year, and have enough help to get the school horses tacked and groomed properly and on time, jumps are set, taken down, and rebuilt quickly and properly. All our instructors go over the courses with the kids as the horse ahead of them in line goes in the ring, and they have a quick Q & A with them, all without delaying the ring. But, I trained the instructors how to do it

[TwiSedai]

@kirbydog

Eventers otoh, tend to have no self discipline when it comes to stadium jumping…they are almost always really good at Xcountry, but try to ride the stadium the same way, and it’s not a pretty site. They may not think they need a trainer, but they would be wrong…and they should remember that even in eventing, the best of the best have trainers and coaches

This is so incredibly wrong…I don’t know a single eventer that doesn’t put as much, if not more, emphasis on SJ as XC. We do take specialized show jumping lessons, as well as dressage and XC. We are well aware of the differences in riding a stadium course and riding a cross country course, as it’s literally our jobs to know.

[DMK]

I know where you are coming from, I really do… but a little food for thought…

She’s paying good money because the whole system has evolved to be a full service industry. It’s not as profitable if she goes off to a show (with a friend to set jumps), armed - by her trainer - with the knowledge how to best warm up her horse and what program works best at the show, now is it? And I fully understand that the full service is a desired model for a certain group of people and I don’t begrudge them that choice, but it has become almost universally the ONLY model for new entrants to the sport (cue eternal rant on COTH about the dearth of horsemanship and rising costs #butitstrue). And yes, it’s nice to have eyes on the ground, but anyone who has done this sport knows it’s not absolutely critical for every class you ever ride, especially at a top show where it’s far more likely a tried and true horse with the less capable riders. I don’t know the answer, but I do know I’m surrounded by a bunch of ex hunter riders of a certain era and that might be an issue long term.

As a side note - from a person who has done more than a few different disciplines - every horse in every discipline has their own special needs for warm up, nothing special about that. It might get a bit more special if you have to create a warm up that taps into the contained brilliance of a dressage test and the next day warm up for marathon, oh wait… I bet I’m projecting my own bias here. That’s always a bad plan!

[MHM]

@DMK

And yes, it’s nice to have eyes on the ground, but anyone who has done this sport knows it’s not absolutely critical for every class you ever ride, especially at a top show where it’s far more likely a tried and true horse with the less capable riders.

Wait, what??

If I’m at a “top show” where the competition is the toughest, that’s when I would want a good ground person the most. I’m pretty sure most hunter or jumper riders at any level would say the same thing.

[amyacker]

Thanks, This is helpful.

[DMK]

You are incredibly fortunate if every show, every class, every horse meets that criteria. I count myself as pretty fortunate as things go, but I had plenty of shows or classes where I felt otherwise. And again, I clearly stated I DO NOT BEGRUDGE ANYONE THAT CHOICE. But the absolute failure from the majority of programs to prepare you (the metaphorical you) to tackle some of this stuff on your own isn’t exactly the bright shining light of American horsemanship.