Well the first ingredient in Balanced is soybean meal, so if the horse was switched to Zero and Balanced, maybe it got less soy than 12lbs TC but it still got soy.
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The triple crown balancer is around 10 or 11%nsc I believe so not bad, and definitely within the “safe” limits for most IR horses, especially considering the low feeding rate. I feed the Hygain Zero to my IR horse and my hard keeper PSSM-1 horse. I LOVE it because the nsc is only 5.5% and its very palatable (and most probiotics make my IR horse sick so I’m thankful this feed doesn’t contain them). But I don’t feed the recommended amount. I feed it with a multivitamin supplement, along with a couple other things, and balance it all with Feed XL. If you’re looking for simple dump-and-go low feeding rate then the TC would probably be better for you.
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Sorry I just caught on to your response now for some reason …I am considering swapping from Vermont Blend to a Ration Balancer…such as Triple Crown 30% or the TC Gold Balancer…my horses have been getting VB as their “ forage mineral balancer “ I was looking to simplify my feeding program which was a combo of ODTBC/VB/Flax/ Hygain Zero
I did the reverse and saw major improvements in my horse’s hoof, haircoat, and overall wellbeing/attitude. Every horse I’ve ever seen on TC Balancer did not have great hoof quality. Perhaps it doesn’t balance the hay/forage in my area very well. Just my experience.
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without a forage analysis there’s no way to know. Maybe your horse was sensitive to soy. Maybe the TC Balancer needed some additional cu/zn for that hay. I use VB Pro from Spring-Fall, and over Winter, I use TC Balancer + additional cu/zn
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I did not just observe hoof changes in my own horse, but other horses who were boarded at my barn, and friend’s horses who were on Balancer. We do live in a high iron area and hay analysis from year’s past also showed low cu/zn in our hay.
I’m not doubting that at all. My point is, that you might have had the same results by adding some cu/zn to the Balancer. And, that’s cheaper too than Vermont Blend
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Curious why do you use VB Pro spring -fall then switch Rb in winter ?
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been pretty happy all around with VB along with flax, vitamin e and my carriers of Timothy balance cubes and now plus/minus some Hygain Zero (prior to Hygain I used Nuzu Stabul One -but it was out of stock from Chewy so I decided to try the Hygain)
Surprisingly the vet from New Bolten and the Nutritionist they recommended that helped me with my work up on my mare that has a list of issues ranging from IR, mild asthma, allergies, and 3 different muscle myopathies wasn’t familiar with Vermont Blend( The NBC vet also never heard of Spirulina, Jiagulon and APF…she also told me to stop Spirulina as it can be toxic and cause liver damage ???)they recommended the TC ration balancer along with some un godly expensive supplements for her issues -KER MFM pellets -$300 for a 5 wk supply, KER NanoQ10 $150, Arenus Aleira also $300 …she’s been on them almost 2 months now without any noticeable improvement but they told me to give it at least 3 months …sorry to get off topic …anyhow I switched my mare to the TC Gold Balancer and I think she might be losing some topline …nothing noticeable with feet as of yet ….I was concerned that she won’t be getting the same amounts of biotin/copper/ zinc as with the VB …nutritionist told me based off my hay and feeding either 2 lbs of TC Gold or 1lb of TC 30% all her needs will be met ?? She also didn’t agree with a lot of what Dr Kellon recommends from the ECIR group
Somewhat a pitiful attempt to reduce calories for the fatties while on grass (and muzzled!), and somewhat to remove soy during the times they are very hard to keep weight off, just in case. None have indicated they’re actually metabolic, but I just hedge my bets
Not surprising, the “forage balancers” are new-ish in the grand scheme of things, plus, I would bet most vets have never heard of most v/m supplements in general
what qualifications does the nutritionist have?
“needs met” isn’t specific enough. If she just means that (if your horse is a 1100lb horse) that his diet provides at least 100mg copper and 400mg zinc, then yes, “needs” are met. But if the ratio of cu:zn is too far off 1:4, and/or the ratio of fe:cu is in the 30:1 or more range, then the horse would very likely benefit from more cu/zn. No, there is no recognized fe:cu ratio, or any ratio with mn either, BUT, excessive iron does interfere with cu uptake, and while there’s no studied ratio that optimizes that, or at least doesn’t inhibit it, if you can get fe:cu down to the 10:1 range at least, that seems to help.
Do you have an example?
I know that as more has been learned about PPID and IR/EMS, there are some groups that have adapted and become a bit less strict in things MUST be this way and MUST be that way, where Kellon is still very die-hard, on things like ESC/WSC/starch for both types of horses.
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@JB Dr Shannon Pratt Phillips is the Nutritionist…she just isn’t into the fanatic die hard strictness of the ECIR group
We equine nutritionists are a pretty small world. I don’t know a single one of us who agrees with the majority of the ECIR group fads.
Dr. Pratt-Phillips is an excellent nutritionist and researcher. I would take her recommendations over those from a Facebook group any day.
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It’s funny …I’m finding out more and more that quite a lot of people don’t see eye to eye on the ECIR group …thank you! …I’m feeling reassured about consulting with Dr Shannon Pratt Phillips…as you can imagine it’s a bit overwhelming with all the different feed choices out there and with so many varying opinions….it’s also a bit scary to completely change your feed program …at least it is for me.
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I’m also interested to see if anyone else has tried the Hygain Meta Safe yet…
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It looks like a good balancer, definitely EMS-friendly, if you can stomach the cost lol
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@JB that’s what I’m fretting over is the cost …do you think it’s worth it ?? …same with the Zero …fed at bare minimum of 3lbs/day is $2.59/horse/day and also Munga
For that sort of cost, you can use a foraga balancer (Vermont Blend Pro is maybe one of the more $$ ones at $1.10/day) and a bit of hay pellets + Vit E if necessary. Something like Omneity Premix also works well in a lot of cases. I can’t see anything about that ration balancer that brings the value worth the cost, unless it’s a pure convenience thing (like a boarding barn where soaking is not happening) AND you need soy-free AND that low NSC.
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I use and am a huge fan of Hygain. Yes it’s more expensive per bag but I do find I am feeding a minimum of feed across the board. They look fantastic, feel fantastic and my pocketbook is ok. I feed everything Metasafe as a balancer base: I used to use Balanced or tribute essential K but I have a mare with what I found is a soy allergy and the meta works well for her. I then top dress with either Munga or Showtorque as needed with oil and beet pulp.
The theory is micronized feed is much more readily digested. I don’t know if that’s true but my horses sure show a difference and I’m feeding about half what I used to on other brands and they look better.
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I’m in love with the Hygain feeds.
I started out experimenting with Showtorque, and now I’ve got horses on Showtorque, Zero & Tru Care. I may pick up some Tru-Gain and Munga as well so that I can mix and match at will.
The 26 year old hard keeping OTTB who I recently switched over to Tru-Care with a top dress of Showtorque just about bolted out of his stall going out this morning. He is feeling good!
He was eating 9 lbs of Triple Crown Senior plus soaked alfalfa pellets and though his weight was ok, it was precarious, and he would frequently just stop eating altogether.
I’m still adjusting feed amounts but I think overall it will be cheaper than Triple Crown.
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