^^^ I think its hard to say ALL the opposition has the same motive. Some, yes, it is the transportation and manner of slaughter that is the issue (I am in this group).
Others seem to be in the HOW DARE any one slaughter a horse any where. They are majestic, special animals that brought prosperity to people through their service. To these people, any type of slaughter, no matter how humane is unacceptable.
It’s a lovely thought to be able to turn out all these unwanted horses in a big pasture for the rest of their lives, but that may or may not be sufficient food and unless those who are so against slaughter want to take care of EVERY horse in case of illness or injury, then they can shut it. As long as its a humane death to a horse who might suffer with hunger and pain then who am I to say how dare someone eat horse. It’s big in France and other European countries like Italy. To each their own.
Fair enough, agree that the relationship with humans is some people’s objection.
And probably most Americans would feel even weirder about more pet-like species being eaten.
There’s a LOT worse things that go on in the United States on a daily basis that would make any horse beg to be in this Japan video.
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8232165]
Americans eat more meat than any other country. Some religions more common elsewhere consume none.
I agree that there is no moral distinction between eating traditionally food animals and traditionally pet animals. But most horse slaughter opposition in the US has to do with the means, which is not a part of this video.[/QUOTE]
Not really, I think the US is second, but there is very little difference between one and ten. Here is one list:
http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/the-10-countries-that-eat-the-most-meat-331539/
Countries with a higher standard of living consume more in general, not only meat, sugar and other too, because they are richer and have more resources.
Horses are transported in airplanes regularly for all kinds of reasons.
Many western horses are flown to Europe, warmblood type horses to the US.
Flying is part of the horse industry, just as it is normal for people to fly.
My data may be older http://chartsbin.com/view/12730
But either way, my point is that the meat-centric view of food is cultural.
I’m not aware of people objecting to horses flying.
When I said “the means” I meant conditions in North American slaughterhouses, and the path there (auctions, feedlots, packed trailers). Some people oppose slaughter on those grounds. Appsolute then correctly pointed out that others oppose it because of the relationship between humans and horses.
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8232711]
My data may be older http://chartsbin.com/view/12730
But either way, my point is that the meat-centric view of food is cultural.
I’m not aware of people objecting to horses flying.
When I said “the means” I meant conditions in North American slaughterhouses, and the path there (auctions, feedlots, packed trailers). Some people oppose slaughter on those grounds. Appsolute then correctly pointed out that others oppose it because of the relationship between humans and horses.[/QUOTE]
The trouble here is that the ones driving the opposition to slaughter are doing it because slaughter, by it’s nature, is the low hanging fruit in their effort to eliminate all uses of animals by humans.
Those are the animal rights extremist groups, with their millions and propaganda and lobbying against it and the hordes following them blindly, not realizing where their support is taking them, as they are in the end supporting those that want to make all animals off hands to humans, eventually.
You say this and that you don’t like about slaughter, not slaughter itself, that is like any other process, as well managed or not as any other process we may have.
So, the solution is to work at making those parts of the process that are not up to par better, not to, as anti-slaughter propaganda wants, following animal rights extremists agendas, ban slaughter altogether.
Those are important differences, that animal rights extremists love to muddle, so they get followers.
That video broke my heart 
I do not think it’s humane to transport a horse (or any other animal) on such a long journey just to be slaughtered. Horses going to a competition or a new home might be given calming supplements and/or extra care prior to shipping, whereas horses going to slaughter are not. In fact, they are probably not even given food or water.
The sheer terror those horses feel is clear and palpable in the video. It absolutely gutted me. They know what is ahead. To say, “It’s just some horses being led down a chute,” shows a lack of empathy that is concerning. Would you be okay with your own animals going through the same ordeal? If not, then I have two words for you: cognitive dissonance. Not to say I don’t suffer from that condition every now and then–I totally do! But instead of embracing it, I just try to do the best I can. All I can do is try to live my life in a way that minimizes suffering for other living beings. None of us can be perfect, but I think we can agree that we can all try to do our best.
And that starts by admitting what we saw in this video is not okay–it makes us feel sad and uncomfortable. It’s also okay to admit that it makes us upset to see footage of pigs in gestation crates and veal calves living out their short lives in tiny sheds and geese being force-fed with steel pipes. We can all agree that stuff f*cking sucks! And we can probably also agree that those practices should be changed to improve the lives of the animals.
But straddling the line of “I really want to eat bacon but it makes me sad to see how it’s made” is so difficult that most people decide to jump to one extreme or the other. And taking an extreme position is usually harmful rather than helpful.
Anyway, hopefully I did not make enemies on COTH by expressing dissent on this issue! I see there are a lot of different opinions here.
[QUOTE=Edith Piaffe;8233248]
That video broke my heart I do not think it’s humane to transport a horse (or any other animal) on such a long journey just to be slaughtered. Horses going to a competition or a new home might be given calming supplements and/or extra care prior to shipping, whereas horses going to slaughter are not. In fact, they are probably not even given food or water.
The sheer terror those horses feel is clear and palpable in the video. It absolutely gutted me. They know what is ahead. To say, “It’s just some horses being led down a chute,” shows a lack of empathy that is concerning. Would you be okay with your own animals going through the same ordeal? If not, then I have two words for you: cognitive dissonance. Not to say I don’t suffer from that condition every now and then–I totally do! But instead of embracing it, I just try to do the best I can. All I can do is try to live my life in a way that minimizes suffering for other living beings. None of us can be perfect, but I think we can agree that we can all try to do our best.
And that starts by admitting what we saw in this video is not okay–it makes us feel sad and uncomfortable. It’s also okay to admit that it makes us upset to see footage of pigs in gestation crates and veal calves living out their short lives in tiny sheds and geese being force-fed with steel pipes. We can all agree that stuff f*cking sucks! And we can probably also agree that those practices should be changed to improve the lives of the animals.
But straddling the line of “I really want to eat bacon but it makes me sad to see how it’s made” is so difficult that most people decide to jump to one extreme or the other. And taking an extreme position is usually harmful rather than helpful.
Anyway, hopefully I did not make enemies on COTH by expressing dissent on this issue! I see there are a lot of different opinions here.[/QUOTE]
Satire, right?
I did not see terror only horses who didn’t want to go into a shoot and were somewhat scared. Terrified horses show much different body language. Horses are flight animals so therefore they are going to get scared no matter what their doing in life. My 100 percent pasture puff horses are often scared of plastic bags.
It looks like there are two to a crate when they are unloading them which makes sense. Load four into the chute and then twonper crate.
[QUOTE=Edith Piaffe;8233248]
That video broke my heart I do not think it’s humane to transport a horse (or any other animal) on such a long journey just to be slaughtered. Horses going to a competition or a new home might be given calming supplements and/or extra care prior to shipping, whereas horses going to slaughter are not. In fact, they are probably not even given food or water.
The sheer terror those horses feel is clear and palpable in the video. It absolutely gutted me. They know what is ahead. To say, “It’s just some horses being led down a chute,” shows a lack of empathy that is concerning. Would you be okay with your own animals going through the same ordeal? If not, then I have two words for you: cognitive dissonance. Not to say I don’t suffer from that condition every now and then–I totally do! But instead of embracing it, I just try to do the best I can. All I can do is try to live my life in a way that minimizes suffering for other living beings. None of us can be perfect, but I think we can agree that we can all try to do our best.
And that starts by admitting what we saw in this video is not okay–it makes us feel sad and uncomfortable. It’s also okay to admit that it makes us upset to see footage of pigs in gestation crates and veal calves living out their short lives in tiny sheds and geese being force-fed with steel pipes. We can all agree that stuff f*cking sucks! And we can probably also agree that those practices should be changed to improve the lives of the animals.
But straddling the line of “I really want to eat bacon but it makes me sad to see how it’s made” is so difficult that most people decide to jump to one extreme or the other. And taking an extreme position is usually harmful rather than helpful.
Anyway, hopefully I did not make enemies on COTH by expressing dissent on this issue! I see there are a lot of different opinions here.[/QUOTE]
I think that some really don’t know about animals, other than the well edited animal rights videos, your donations at work.
They are intent on doing just what those people do, get incensed at the horrible stuff that is described there.
The word is “described”.
Those that truly know animals, you can tell what is just normal, everyday stress and what is “sheer terror”.
If someone is primed by animal rights extremist propaganda video, with their visual tricks and prompts to believe what is not there, well, they end up believing what they are told.
As for the other brought up, well, that just shows us why some follow animal rights extremists, they will believe anything they see, when they obviously don’t know about what the animals themselves are like, but project their human feelings onto animals, filtered thru the propaganda of those anti-animal groups.
There is not much that the rest of us can say, we don’t have the millions to put out slick propaganda, we are too busy doing the best we know how with our animals and most of us doing a very good job of it, if someone cares to look past what the animal rights extremists propaganda puts forth.
People, you will have to make your mind, do you want to keep having animals and do the best for them you know how, or do you want to help push the ideology that humans should never have animals because, the abuse card here, handy propaganda tool that it is, see, there are places where humans don’t do right for animals, if it is true or just taken out of context, as here.
The important difference here is, do you want to have animals and keep working for animal welfare, so abuses don’t happen, while we still do all we do with animals, according to the many existing laws, or do we want to let those with the strange idea, strange for the world we live in, that now humans should not have any rights to our animals?
Lets not fall for the muddling of those two opposite goals, as animal rights extremists do, so you don’t see their ultimate end.
Fine either way you choose.
Everyone has a right to their opinion.
Just be sure you know down which path you want to go.
With animal rights extremists in the game, there is no middle ground, no fence to sit on.
The end they are after is “no more domestic animals and none too soon for me”.
Great last post. Most of animal advocacy is done for years by hard working people to chip away slowly at bad treatment of animals ( which usually has environmental consequences as well). That is true whether for farm animals, in the wild, or pets. Horses are a cross between pet, agricultural food source and a historic tradition of art, battle, service and sport shaped over centuries.
It’s hard to see animal lovers bashing and lumping as extreme all the good animal welfare advocacy has done just because there is a fringe element of it. (as there is with any cause or advocacy)
Imagine that video was plain and unedited, just someone videoing horses being loaded in airplanes.
Then the write-up below tells us these are horses going to a preserve in Japan, where they will be kept as representatives of draft horses, or whatever?
Will people still see "The sheer terror those horses feel is clear and palpable in the video. It absolutely gutted me. They know what is ahead. "?
Do people really believe horses think like that?
Do some people think horses know going down a chute into a trailer means they are going to be horse steaks in Japan, really?
I think the problem here is with some people and their own problems with reality, or being led by those with agendas and not thinking for themselves if what they are told makes sense.
Would we have this conversation if this video, as it is presented, was not part of certain group’s propaganda?
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8232165]
Americans eat more meat than any other country. Some religions more common elsewhere consume none.
I agree that there is no moral distinction between eating traditionally food animals and traditionally pet animals. But most horse slaughter opposition in the US has to do with the means, which is not a part of this video.[/QUOTE]
People were eating horses long before they were riding them, or making “pets” out of them. Horses are not “traditionally pet” animals. Some people treat them like pets, but, they are not truly pets. If you make a mistake, they can kill you, either by mistake, or on purpose. This is not a “pet”. Horses are domestic livestock, and need to be well cared for, throughout their lives (long or short) and in death, no matter what their purpose to humans is.
No, I also have no problem with well cared for horses being consumed by people who want to eat them. I do have a problem with people who want to “rescue” horses from going for meat, when those people have no need or wish to own those horses they “rescue” themselves, for some purpose they have for a horse. I also have a problem with people who buy horses to “rescue” them without understanding that the meat industry operates on a QUOTA basis, that “rescuing” one horse leads to the meat buyer simply buying another horse to make up his quota. I also have a problem with people who object to horses going for meat, but have carnivorous pets at home themselves, and purchase commercially produced pet food for them, and in doing so, support the industry they claim to want to stamp out.
IMO, the meat industry is PART of the equine industry that we ALL participate in. There are horrible people in all parts of the equine industry, not just the meat aspect of the industry. Meat buyers are simply “buyers”, not inherently evil people, who have a purpose for the horses they buy. Like ANY buyer, the care the horses get in their new owners possession is always the question. I would prefer that a horse go to the meat industry if that horse is best suited for that purpose, would rather see that than seeing it go to someone who means well, but either knows nothing about horses, or can’t afford to provide adequate care.
Not meaning to criticize you or your post Beam Me Up, just wanted to examine the recent idea that horses are pets, or have not been traditionally considered food animals. And I agree that only in this part of the world, and at this time in history, is this the case. And the result of this thinking is damaging to horses. The slaughter industry must be embraced by the equine industry as a whole, regulated, inspected for level of care for all horses. Because horses from all disciplines may well end up there, even with the best of intentions of their current owners, AND the horses specifically bred for the purpose.
Imo, cutting down on meat consumption in general will benefit humanity on both an environmental and ethical scale…there are excellent protien alternatives being developed ( big money going into them Bill Gates is an investor), one being a rpoduct already on the market, a crumbled No Beef "beef like " product…I’ve cooked it, delicious, tastes as good or better than “real” chopped beef and just as satisfying.
Horses were never a main food source as were pigs or cows historically, though they were consumed in some nations for meat their use was more as working animals. They have a place in culture and history different than most livestock. That said, if they are humanely raised for consumption and slaughtered humanely also i have little problem with that compared to horses that are ex pets or riding animals ending up in the auction to slaughter path.
The sad lives of the agricultural animals factory farmed raised for meat in America is reason enough to cut back on meat consumption and then factor in the cost and environmental impact. A hog wandering around rooting and natural and then slaughtered one day is acceptable, (imo), a hog force fed kept in a tiny cage and driven crazy by the mental stress never seeing sunlight and then slaughtered is not acceptable ( from an ethical view point plus environmental/health, the waste is dumped into waters or leached into soil to the soil plus antibiotics given to keep crowded cage animals healthy etc)d
Over the coming decades there will be less meat consumption and a shift to other protein alternatives that will come about due to concerns for animal welfare, human health and environmental impact. While people were designed to eat meat as part of food source, they are often healthier eating far less of it and one can imagine in prior centuries when meat was scarce and hard to come by or hunt down people naturally ate far less of it.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8233495]
Imo, cutting down on meat consumption in general will benefit humanity on both an environmental and ethical scale…there are excellent protien alternatives being developed ( big money going into them Bill Gates is an investor), one being a rpoduct already on the market, a crumbled No Beef "beef like " product…I’ve cooked it, delicious, tastes as good or better than “real” chopped beef and just as satisfying.
Maybe in your opinion, not so in those of many others.
The real question here is, why do you feel that you can dictate to others if they should have animals and what they should eat?
Horses were never a main food source as were pigs or cows historically, though they were consumed in some nations for meat their use was more as working animals. They have a place in culture and history different than most livestock. That said, if they are humanely raised for consumption and slaughtered humanely also i have little problem with that compared to horses that are ex pets or riding animals ending up in the auction to slaughter path.
Read history, all suitable domestic animals have been part of how we acquire natural, renewable resources, horses included.
We have also used cows for milk and oxen as draft animals, but once their job there is finished, why not use in any manner we have use for all those huge amounts of produce we get from them?
Remember, we get from animals much more than hamburger.
The sad lives of the agricultural animals factory farmed raised for meat in America is reason enough to cut back on meat consumption and then factor in the cost and environmental impact. A hog wandering around rooting and natural and then slaughtered one day is acceptable, (imo), a hog force fed kept in a tiny cage and driven crazy by the mental stress never seeing sunlight and then slaughtered is not acceptable ( from an ethical view point plus environmental/health, the waste is dumped into waters or leached into soil to the soil plus antibiotics given to keep crowded cage animals healthy etc)d
[b]You lose credibility there, when you are parroting animal rights extremist assuming that all that raise animals are ogres torturing them.
If you think about that, it doesn’t make sense, because if any animal is not comfortable and happy, for that animal and species, it won’t be good for the one caring for it, if not only for humane reasons, because the animal won’t perform well under that management.
Just because you don’t understand why someone cares for their animals in a way that decades of studies have shown to be the best for that animal, just because you think that is wrong from your human point of view, maybe consider that you are missing the point of what is best?[/b]
Over the coming decades there will be less meat consumption and a shift to other protein alternatives that will come about due to concerns for animal welfare, human health and environmental impact. While people were designed to eat meat as part of food source, they are often healthier eating far less of it and one can imagine in prior centuries when meat was scarce and hard to come by or hunt down people naturally ate far less of it.[/QUOTE]
Yes, eventually humans won’t be like we are today, anyone’s guess if we will be some brain in a robot and live off technology that let us tap into atoms directly for our sustenance, we won’t need any other like food to keep us alive.
Until then, we have the world we have because is how we have evolved, humans no different than the lion clawing a gazelle down and tearing it apart and eating it still alive, except we have a better mousetrap for that, we raise and care for and slaughter our animals in the most humane ways we have managed to and are improving every day how we go about that.
Yes, some day maybe we won’t need animals any more, but not just not for all we get today from them, also not any more for pets or any other.
We are not there yet, lets keep our animals for now and keep doing the best job we know to do, as most that have animals do, believe it or not.
No one is making you own a cat or horse or fish in a bowl, or use leather, or insulin, or graft tissues from animals, or much less eat any meat.
Why insist on claiming some kind of false higher moral ground and demanding others should not have animals, just because you choose not to?
There is a huge, awesome, very interesting world out there when you want to really look into it, what all animals are, including the human animal, as part of this world we live in.
? Where do you find in my post that I demand others not have animals?
And I have animals so where did you get I don’t? My post addresses ethical treatment of farm animals and environmental impact of factory farming.
I support humane raising of animals for consumption but not inhumane methods. There is a difference even if you choose not to address it. I don’t think that puts me on moral higher ground, I think changing to humane methods would help animals not to spend whatever life they have tormented inside a cage so small they can’t turn around . Humane raising of animals is the way it was done historically with them grazing in pastures or free ranging. it is the modern factory farming model that is an inhumane development.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8233541]
? Where do you find in my post that I demand others not have animals?
And I have animals so where did you get I don’t? My post addresses ethical treatment of farm animals and environmental impact of factory farming.
I support humane raising of animals for consumption but not inhumane methods. There is a difference even if you choose not to address it. I don’t think that puts me on moral higher ground, I think changing to humane methods would help animals not to spend whatever life they have tormented inside a cage so small they can’t turnaround…humane raising of animals is actually more like it was done historically with the modern factory farming the inhumane development.[/QUOTE]
“Factory farming” as you use there is an insult to anyone that raises and cares for their animals.
My point is that you don’t understand standard animal husbandry practices, as they are today, with decades of research and millions of regulations and inspections and are going by sound bites of propaganda of those that make their living complaining about all and any others may do.
I am surprised that you have any animals and then want to dictate to others what they should do.
You do realize that you already crossed that line when you accepted that you can have your animals because, why, you are so special, but everyone else is suspect, should not, unless they do it your way?
While abuse happens any place, not just with animals also, I have seem more inhumane treatment of animals by do-gooders that are clueless if not cutting corners because they know better and get dispensation from the rules for others, than from those spending their lives caring for their animals.
Think that maybe just because someone cares for them differently than you do, maybe that is right for their management and their animals?
where do you get these leaps of illogic?
Such as because I speak of factory farming, which is a specific area of corporate owned agriculture, that constitutes an insult to to anyone who raises and cares for their animals?
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
