It sounds like you are torturing him. Wow, what a mess, I have never heard of anything remotely like that. Jingles for you both.
OP, please read my earlier post that many tummy meds block the absorption of antibiotics. Your horse might simply be getting sicker. I don’t mean to alarm you, but many people don’t realize this. Do a web search for drug interactions & you will see this for yourself.
Thanks 
It was proposed by gastrogard’s manufacturer, Merial. They are paying for the treatment and have had success with it before and my vet supports it, so I agreed to do it. It’s hard to watch though. Fortunately I don’t have to administer the drugs so he doesn’t associate me with getting his meds thankfully. 13 more days until he’s rescoped; can’t come soon enough.
[QUOTE=longwaitover;7121708]
The vet said “depression” and “lethargy” are not side effectives of antibiotics even in high doses, but my horse seems definitely depressed. ([/QUOTE]
Metronidazole can definitely make horses dumpy, and it sounds as though that is one of the antibiotics your guy is on.
[QUOTE=JoeIKnow;7092340]
She’s on stall rest at the moment for all this, but I keep a slow feeding hay net in front of her at all times.[/QUOTE]
If you are trying to encourage/maximize hay intake, why use a slow-feeding net? In other words, why make it harder for her to consume the hay?
[QUOTE=Claddagh;7093299]
Ok, granted, Ranitidine can heal ulcers but only under certain circumstances, i.e., it must be dosed (at the proper amount) every 8 hours, round the clock AND the horse must be taken out of work and/or training for the duration of treatment. If not, the Ranititine will at best, only be helpful in eliminating the symptoms of ulcers but they will not be healed and the horse will most likely suffer a recurrance as soon as the dosage is stopped.[/QUOTE]
You clearly have very strong feelings on this, but ranitidine is more effective than you think it is. GastroGard is more effective and heals ulcers faster, but I have cured loads of ulcers with ranitidine. Not everyone can afford GastroGard and ranitidine is a perfectly good alternative. For severe/difficult cases I definitely prefer omeprazole, but most cases are not severe or difficult and do just fine with ranitidine.
However, I’m sure that Merial really appreciated your comments!
[QUOTE=visorvet;7128116]
Metronidazole can definitely make horses dumpy, and it sounds as though that is one of the antibiotics your guy is on.[/QUOTE]
Thank you Visorvet. Although I have come to trust my own observations about my horse (having been too often dismissed as the know-nothing amateur owner only to later be proven right) it’s still nice to get some validation that what I see could in fact be related to the treatment he’s undergoing :yes:
You can get away with a half s tube of gastroguard and wean down to cheaper products. Omprazole, gastrafate, rantidine, or sulcrafate.
Misoprostal is not cheap but works quickly and effectively on ulcers, this is what they prescribe in clinics.
The ‘new thing’ now is to put horse on a low dose antibitoic(metraninodazole) supposedly to heal the ulcers. This shows results rather quickly then you would stay on a preventative.
[QUOTE=longwaitover;7129638]
Thank you Visorvet. Although I have come to trust my own observations about my horse (having been too often dismissed as the know-nothing amateur owner only to later be proven right) it’s still nice to get some validation that what I see could in fact be related to the treatment he’s undergoing :yes:[/QUOTE]
Happy to validate! It can also depress appetite, especially when given orally. I like to rinse out the mouth 5 minutes after administration to help reduce that effect.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7092423]
www.abler.com omeprzole granules are much cheaper than gastrogard and has worked well for many of us on this forum.[/QUOTE]
I agree wholeheartedly - in general the full dose is recommended for 30 days, not 10 and I think you just haven’t given the omeprazole a chance to work on her. Don’t use the gastroguard, there’s no reason to spend that money. The abler omeprazole linked above is great and 1/3 the price. Ranitidine doesn’t work in the same way, and if she has ulcers, you need to heal them with omeprazole and that takes the full 30 days. If she’s that bad, scope after thirty days and see if you need a second course. Then think about a maintanence dose now and again, but tapering isn’t going to heal them when they need the full 30 days, in my opinion.
Well I’m happy to report the protocol worked and my horse is ulcer free. :yes: Now we go through the weaning-off period and then <gasp!> we stop the omeprazole altogether and see if we can stay ulcer free. Wish us luck!!
[QUOTE=retrofit;7121813]
OP, please read my earlier post that many tummy meds block the absorption of antibiotics. Your horse might simply be getting sicker. I don’t mean to alarm you, but many people don’t realize this. Do a web search for drug interactions & you will see this for yourself.[/QUOTE]
You’re confusing the effect of calcium containing antacids on certain classes of antibiotics (such as doxycycline & tetracycline) and proton pump inhibitors (omeprazole). There should be no contraindications for the later while it is recommended that the former not be taken or spaced several hours apart. Also negatively impacting absorbsion and effectiveness of doxycycline:
Some medicines that can interact with doxycycline are antacids and supplements that contain calcium, iron, magnesium, or sodium bicarbonate. If you take products containing these minerals within 2 hours of the time you take doxycycline, these medicines could decrease the doxycycline’s effectiveness.
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/BioterrorismandDrugPreparedness/ucm131012.htm
PS: I know this is an older thread but the same issues keep cropping up over and over.
Exactly and yet it seems to be a known “fact” around here that it’s the calcium that is buffering the acid when in fact, that’s impossible. I’m trying to find the thread where deltawave and rayers said as much. But you know how tough the search feature on COTH can be sometimes.
I have an OTTB and battled ulcers for months and months. After thousands of dollars on Gastroguard I realized he may have hind gut ulcers too. He was then put on Sucralfate and I started to use the waaaaay cheaper version of Gastroguard from horseprerace.com. (I can get a big tube of Omeprazole from them for like $32.00 that at full dose will last for a week. Beats paying that much for 1 day of Gastroguard or Ulcerguard.) Also put him on Succeed. It finally made him a different very sweet horse. He wants to eat people when he has ulcers. He can be so mean!!! When he is ulcer free he is so sweet, curious, funny and loves to play ball and run. However… I have to keep him on Succeed, Rantitidine, and about 1/4 of a dose of omeprazole or the ulcers come back. It is a noticable difference when I try to wean him off of this stuff. I hate to keep him on that forever, but it makes him happy. Sucralfate is the key for hind gut ulcers. It gives him relief and cures them. The Succeed and rantidine is for maintenance of the hind gut ulcers.
I havent read all the replies you’ve gotten already, but having had a horse with chronic ulcers, i have some simple things you can try.
- it is nearly impossible (in my experience) to put weight on a horse who is on 24/7 turnout on poor grass. even with a roundbale. you are much better off giving him unlimited hay in a stall with regular turnout.
- feed alfalfa!! feed beetpulp!! and feed more of this kind of roughage than grain!
- feed alfalfa before you ride. a horse, meant to eat 24/7, who has ulcer problems, is going to have a terrible time being ridden when his belly is sloshing with stomach acid. start off with a half bucket of alfalfa and work up to a full bucket. unless the quality in hay is bad, its really pretty hard to “overdo” alfalfa. OR beetpulp for that matter.
- get him off that grain if its not doing the job. which it sounds like its not. is he on a senior-type feed that is beet-pulp based already? if not, i have found that a senior type, easy to digest beet-pulp based feed keeps weight on better, so consider it. there is also stuff called Empower that is a supplemental feed that a lot of old, hard to keep weight on horses, are on at my barn. it seems moderately effective
- When you talk about how flighty your horse has become, i immediately thought about my horse when i first got him and we were trying to put weight on. he was getting a full scoop of Fibregized (like senior, beetpulp based) 2x a day, plus a bucket of alfalfa and 6 flakes of hay. plus turnout with a roundbale. my vet still wanted him to continue putting on weight, but she looked in his mouth and said he was getting too much sugar. his mouth was too pinkish reddish and she says it can cause hypersensitivity and…she pointed to his feed as the culprit. OH. we said. so we backed him off slowly and increased the alfalfa. she continued to check in and peek at his mouth and finally, at only 1/4 scoop fibergized, he has no excess sugar. he is also getting a full bucket of alfalfa with one meal, plus a full bucket of alfalfa (with an additional scoop of beetpulp in the winter) whenever i ride him.
hope this was helpful! i had a big old tb who lived with chronic ulcers and it was TERRIBLE trying to keep weight on him. we did master it by the time i was about 11… he maintained good weight for the next 7 years before he died. we had him on senior, beetpulp, and a TON of alfalfa, plus U-guard and the like. he ended up refusing to eat his supps that were on his food so we had to dose him with a dosing syringe every day the last two years of his life, in order to keep control of the ulcers and prevent colic.
try sucralfate and succeed
