Which is clear, very clear.
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Thank you. That was super polite.
Please educate me on the physics of the hunter ride then.
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Sorry I was referring to the UK riders of yore not North American hunter riders. I know that the hunter riders want the best possible jump and not just get over the jump.
Just to be clear tho… I do realize that not all hunter pros do the ducking etc. and if they do it’s just a brief moment in time.
And to be clear… I’m a hunter person through and through. (Except for shadbellies… I stand my ground thinking those look utterly ridiculous in a sport…
)
I did a pretty thorough description somewhere up thread, around post 35 or so.
But it sounds like you’re admittedly inexperienced about the hunter ride? So perhaps don’t be so certain that they’re doing it wrong?
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I’ve been doing hunters for 40 years…
I’m not understanding the actual physics ( forces/weight etc.) of this hunter ride and how it actually benefits the jump.
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Sorry, your reply came while I was posting. I don’t really know what to say then…
I’m also not implying that they should all have perfect eq. Too much focus on equitation can be overrated as it can leads to a stiff rider etc.
Hey whatever it takes to make for that soft ride.
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I’d say the physics involved are those required just to stay on the animal when you’ve taken your leg off the animal. Jumpers & eq use leg to hold their position, hunter riders are just trying to stay balanced in the stirrups. And best way to do that is to stay over the most fixed point of the whole effort: The withers.
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I find the current writhing (instead of riding) in some of the current hunter rider’s photos unflattering. I have been mostly a jumper rider over the decades, but always bringing my own horses along from green, and thus some mileage in the hunter divisions when green, and the equitation divisions as a kid. I’ve had successes in the jumper divisions up to 5’ level. I’ve had a variety of talented horses over a number of decades. I’ve also trained and galloped racehorses for a few decades. So this is where my opinions come from.
When I was a kid, a local well respected coach told me that in the hunter division, the beautiful riding should “decorate” the beautiful horse with the lovely jumping style. This makes sense to me. Writhing about, swinging lower leg etc detracts from the picture, imo. If it doesn’t for you, I guess you could be a judge at current day horse shows, and be terribly popular and in demand.
I’ve ridden horses who can jump, have huge power and arc. If I lost my leg position over a jump on some of these horses… I would not be still mounted on landing. I learned that early in my career. Necessity breeds this awakening. If current hunter judges feel that writhing riders are worth pinning and winning, then I guess this is where horse shows are going now. Which I, personally, don’t think is the best plan, not that it matters. There are a variety of current methods and practices in the current state of the equine industry that I feel are not in the best plan of it’s continued positive progression, the riding that pins in the hunter divisions being just one of those things. The lack of horsemanship and training skills being taught to “clients” being another. Anyway, I’m beating a dead horse here, obviously. The equine industry will proceed as it will, until it dies.
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I’m ignorant, admittedly.
But, I can’t help but to wonder why they “lean” so heavily off to one side.
Since this is judged on the horse, if you were riding a horse that you knew would hang a leg just a tiny bit below the other one, would you intentionally lean to attempt to get the horse to correct that?
Like, is this “equitation” but with the sole purpose of getting that even kneed jump effort?
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The melodrama of this post is amusing, but I feel the need to point out, once again, that hunter judges are not judging the riders. Not even a little bit. They aren’t looking at the riders at all.
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People with longer heavier torsos, especially men, find it easier to hold their bodies down long enough on landing without bracing a stiff back if they start lower from the apex of the jump.
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kirbydog takes a deep breath and repeats: Equitation does not equate Position. Posing isn’t good riding, it’s just that; posing.
And a snapshot is, indeed, just a moment in time.
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I’m not trying to be a smartass here, please bear with my questioning. I’m trying to understand.
Men who ride are generally more lithe and less body-buildy.
With that in mind, wouldn’t the ducking be more commonly seen with women, since they have boobs to contend with?
Crackerjack realizes that.
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Yes, sometimes. And sometimes they are getting the horse to land the lead, which always gives a smoother picture than needing a lead change, no matter how perfect the change and no matter how many times we debate it.
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If judges place riders who exaggerate their movement/position over a fence, aka “ducking”, then that is what wins, that is now the style, that is what Hunters do and so that is what people are trained to do, right down to the lowest levels. Didn’t happen in the good old days. It will probably change in the future, like any other fashion.
Try jumping over a hedge out of mud, in that style, when out foxhunting and I suspect the impeccable Hunter turnout would quickly be ruined and the riding style adjusted to something more functional to prevent another nose dive into a mouthful of mud.
Horses for courses.
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I remember reading an article in which he (RS) said that he adjusts his leg for the horse. Some horses have a shallow girth and his feet would hit the jumps.
When I look at pictures of Rodney Jenkins I laugh at the people who think your equitation should change radically on a horse. Good hands are good hands, a strong leg is a strong leg. And putting in pix of an eventer landing in water or some other extreme position is silly. Of course there are times when your position changes. Cantering around a groomed hunter course does not require extreme positions.
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AGAIN- the horse is being judged, not the rider. The judges don’t place or not place the riders, regardless of their good or bad position. NO judge is going to be like, well Mr Manhattan/ Catch me/ Whoever COULD have scored a 95 but I’m not going to place him bc TC/ SS/ whoever is ducking.
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AGAIN- foxhunting =/= show hunters. No point in comparing. It is 2 different sports. It’s like saying try taking your dressage horse onto a polo field and see how fast those fancy white polos get dirty muauhahaha.
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They don’t place riders, ducking or not, they place horses in the hunters.
This horse was fabulous, and we won a ton with him. But he was dead lazy, and would try and cheat on his lead changes. A little “duck” to the outside, and he’d land every one of them. He had a huge, slow jump, and if I sat up and posed, I’d get jumped right out of the tack.
Please do forgive my right elbow, that isn’t cool
BTW, I have my colors with a local fox hunt, and worked as a staff member. My impeccable turn out carried over in the hunt field, and I assure you, my jumping position was never the reason why I might get muddied
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