I own a horse barn... Now what?

[OneTwoMany]

If the prior boarder is without a home base and she is suggesting $350 is the going rate for dry stalls, there is a good chance you are being low-balled, so make sure you do your homework. One of the tenets of “the art of negotiation,” is you never lead with your best offer.

If the property is 2 acres, and you have 8-10 horses, everything posters mentioned above is true. You’ll have a lot of mud every time it rains, the paddocks won’t support grass and you’ll probably get more than your share of complaints. The “general” rule of thumb is two acres per horse if you hope to keep them on grass.

If you are the outgoing type, you might look to contact the prior owners and ask them about their experiences offering boarding services, especially regarding the individual who had horses on the property for 20 years. If the prior owners are open to a chat, I’m sure you’ll learn a lot.

Another thing you might want to look into is your local zoning laws to make sure everything you are contemplating is legally permissible.

The comment that many boarders that take on self care do so because they cannot afford full care is true. Be prepared to handle deadbeats.

Above all, it will be helpful to remember that boarding is an endeavor wherein the clients often complain about the cost while also bemoaning the quality of the amenities. It costs a lot to maintain a horse property. Most boarders have never owned one or managed one. But they are happy to dispense their advice, opinions and complaints freely.

[Gloria]

@StevenSantos

Ok, so I am liking the idea of renting to to one person. How do I find someone qualified to do that?

How about the one knocking that had 4 horses in the barn a few months before I bought it and it has apparently had horses in it for the last 20 years? Normally i would say, don’t bother, but if you have one that has fair consistent history, the odd is going a bit toward your favor. Find reference.

I think in your situation it’s going to be hard to rend it to one person, as that person is normally a trainer who is looking for a place for his/her business. You don’t have enough arena to be usable for a training facility.

[Simkie]

Not sure where exactly you are @StevenSantos but here is an example of a regulation in your general area:

http://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/131

No person shall keep a horse on land containing less than two (2) acres. All persons shall be limited to a maximum of three (3) horses in areas up to four (4) acres, additional horses may be kept by application to the City Council and Board of Health.

Limits like these are not uncommon, and go city by city. The previous owners may have been exempt, grandfathered in to older, less restrictive, allowances…but that doesn’t stay with the property when its sold.

Before investing any further, best to confirm just how many horse you’re allowed on two acres.

ETA: another example, looks like you have to have 5 acres to have any horses in Plymouth:

https://www.plymouth-ma.gov/sites/plymouthma/files/uploads/bylaws_town_general_0.pdf

[IPEsq]

@Simkie

Not sure where exactly you are @StevenSantos but here is an example of a regulation in your general area:

http://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/131

No person shall keep a horse on land containing less than two (2) acres. All persons shall be limited to a maximum of three (3) horses in areas up to four (4) acres, additional horses may be kept by application to the City Council and Board of Health.

Limits like these are not uncommon, and go city by city. The previous owners may have been exempt, grandfathered in to older, less restrictive, allowances…but that doesn’t stay with the property when its sold.

Before investing any further, best to confirm just how many horse you’re allowed on two acres.

ETA: another example, looks like you have to have 5 acres to have any horses in Plymouth:

https://www.plymouth-ma.gov/sites/plymouthma/files/uploads/bylaws_town_general_0.pdf

It’s possible the exception runs with the property. You find that some around here when ag land is involved. But, it’s definitely a question worth asking with the county before you go any further with the idea.

[candyappy]

If your total acreage is 2 acres you are asking for trouble.
You will have no privacy. It takes a special person that can handle that.

[HungarianHippo]

While there are lots of happy examples of this kind of setup, there are potential disasters that should give you pause.

I really don’t think it works out well when the barn owner does not know horses. The horse world is full of people who think they’re expert when they’re not, but you won’t be able to know. This leaves you extra vulnerable to crackpots and poor standards of horse care, and honestly, you just don’t want that on your property. A no-amenities, self-care facility will tend to attract people who are keeping horses on a very low budget, and that population includes a fair number of people who are in over their heads. One unexpected vet bill and suddenly they can’t pay board. And at some point, someone will offer to “work off” their board by doing chores instead of paying you. This almost never goes well. If they can’t pay board, immediately give notice and evict.

2 acres is really small for even just a couple horses, and your boarders will most definitely intrude on your sense of privacy. You’ll come home from work and the boarders are there. They’ll be there every weekend. They’ll pull in your driveway just as you’re sitting down to dinner. If you want to have friends over for a BBQ, your boarders will also be there. They can be the nicest possible people, and never knock on your door, but trust me, when there’s always someone there, you will have to work to ignore them and just go about your activity. I lived on/managed a 10-acre horse property, and I came to hate that sense of always being visible, never being able to walk outside into my own yard without having to acknowledge someone with a friendly wave or a hi how are you. Which I know makes me sound like a miserable misanthrope, which I’m really not, but I just grew to resent never being alone.

If you want to go forward, have your attorney write up a really really good contract, and you need to be prepared to enforce it. Require one month advance board.

These older threads may be good reading for you, for some good examples of what to avoid.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/329953-share-your-stories-of-drama-filled-boarder-evictions-spinoff

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/311717-the-psychodynamics-of-boarding-your-horse-your-experiences-please

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/287959-more-barn-drama-you-know-you-love-it-final-update-page-13

[Palm_Beach]

@StevenSantos

Ok, so I am liking the idea of renting to to one person. How do I find someone qualified to do that?

In your prior posts you said that 3 people had knocked on your door. Did you keep their contact info? And one person had horses in your barn in the past?

Ask your neighbors how many horses were on the property and what kind of condition it was in.

[ladymcts]

Sounds like plenty of other people are giving you honest and good responses. So I’ll only add to the don’t-even-think-about-it camp. Start with your insurance agent and find how much it’s going to run you to make sure you’re covered for liabilities. And then if you’re not a horse person then only consider working with one human at a time. One human, two horses max, for two acres.

[Simkie]

@IPEsq

It’s possible the exception runs with the property. You find that some around here when ag land is involved. But, it’s definitely a question worth asking with the county before you go any further with the idea.

I think it’s mostly by township out here, rather than county.

Funny aside: Larimer county in CO is about half the size of the entire STATE of Connecticut :lol: :lol:

[Color_of_Light]

Steven,

Welp, since you are not a horse owner or horse person, I promise it will be more headache than you can ever imagine. Plus, 2 acres is way, way too small!

Ready for every species of fly and gnats to invade your property, even if stalls are cleaned 2x a day and manure is hauled away? Depending on the weather in your area, fly season will last from approximately March/April to Oct/Nov. On only 2 acres, your house is close to the barn. Flies will get into your house, no matter what you do.

Speaking of manure, what are you going to do about that? An average horse poops 50 pounds of poo per day. That’s 1,500 pounds of poop, PER HORSE, every single month! Boarding four horses? You’ll get 3 tons (6K lbs) of poop per month! That’s 18,000 pounds of horse poop per horse, per year! Boarding four horses all year long? You’ll get 72,000 pounds, or 36 TONS of horse poop per year in return. All that, on your tiny 2 acre plot. You will not be able to compost it quickly, either. You’ll have a mountain of poop. Haul it away? No idea of the cost, but it’s probably $200-$400 per month, maybe more, to have a dumpster that you dump daily poop into and then it’s hauled away.

On such a small lot, is there hay storage? How many tons can be stored? Is there wood shavings storage? How large? If you don’t have much hay or shavings storage, then hay will have to be delivered every few weeks or months. Same for shavings. Each horse will eat approximately 3 tons of hay per year, and poop it out into 18,000 pounds of manure.

The noise! Are you ready for some hungry or thirsty horse (that your “self care” boarders didn’t feed and water) to be clanking the buckets and banging the stall wall all night? Thinking of sleeping in? Think again. People will show up before 6 am to feed horses and clean stalls.

The people! You’d better have a bullet-proof contract, outlining ever detail and specific. Better lock up every tool, or else they’ll walk away. Better have clear boundaries as to if they can drill holes in your barn walls and mount racks and hangars, or are you the only one to do that? They will destroy your barn if you let them! The people will also be walking all over your yard, knocking on your door and interrupting you, bringing their dogs (unless you specify NO DOGS, and even then, someone will bring their dog), moms will drop off their kids and you’ll be baby sitting. If you are not aware of what can spook a horse or what a horse can get hurt on, if you’re not careful, a person or horse will get hurt or killed on your property and sue you.

Is there a bathroom in the barn? If not, where will people go to the bathroom? Don’t let the people use your horse stalls as a toilet. Rent a porta potty? That will have to be cleaned weekly. Add probably $150+ in monthly expenses. Add more weekly traffic to your property, too.

The hours. 7 days a week, you’ll have people in your hair! From 6 am until 9 pm, all day, every day. Horses are fed 2-4 times per day, every day. Since you have no turnout or pastures, those horses will probably be fed 3-4 or more times per day.

DON’T DO IT!!!

[SharonA]

Natick? NATICK? Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding! Alert! Alert! Alert!

Sorry. I just got carried away by the idea of a new place to board in metrowest. However, once I got over that, I had to agree that 2 acres is nothing, and I would be surprised if the town of Natick allowed horses on such a small property. Maybe it is grandfathered in, and I just missed that in your posts. Still, it is no fun keeping horses on two acres in Massachusetts. Mud, flies, manure, ice, snow removal on a small property will turn a small farm into a lot of work. Too bad, because if the property had more acreage, it would have been great to have more boarding options around.

I could see it being a nice situation for trail riding or for retirees if you put tons of money into taking out the topsoil in the paddocks and replacing it with sand/stonedust, so you wouldn’t have mud.

Maybe you could find a pony-ride business and let them keep a couple of miniature horses or Shetland ponies there … I could see that maybe working, whereas bigger horses wouldn’t.

[HungarianHippo]

Or offer your pasture to a sheep or goat breeder (though you’d need to improve your fencing for either of those). Or hops growers-- local hops are in huge demand, everywhere.

It’s not as if keeping horses at home is awful–nothing beats looking out your window over your morning bowl of cereal and see your horses peacefully grazing-- or that all of us horsepeople are awful But it takes a real love of horses to make it worthwhile, because otherwise it’s just a minimum wage job (if you’re lucky).

[Palm_Beach]

@HungarianHippo

Or offer your pasture to a sheep or goat breeder (though you’d need to improve your fencing for either of those). Or hops growers-- local hops are in huge demand, everywhere.

It’s not as if keeping horses at home is awful–nothing beats looking out your window over your morning bowl of cereal and see your horses peacefully grazing-- or that all of us horsepeople are awful But it takes a real love of horses to make it worthwhile, because otherwise it’s just a minimum wage job (if you’re lucky).

This is a great idea, although sheep and goats will also defecate and urinate so you might have some smell issues.

However, what about a specialty farmer/gardener who is looking for an acre of land to grow produce? I know a few “farmers” who cater to the CSA/specialty markets and they lease land. You won’t make as much money, but you won’t have to take care of that land and it will probably look nice.

[CLB15]

I live in the south shore and depending on where you are, 2-5AC for a 4-10 stall barn is not unusual. I can think of a few low-key barns operating with this size property.
If you have 5 stalls with in/outs I’d advise getting those 5 filled but using the others for storage, depending on the boarding set-up. With attached paddocks its less turning in/out horses if the weather turns and owners are doing self-care. I haven’t read all the replies here but did see some advising NOT to go with the self-care route… 2 horse people, 3 opinions- having multiple individual boarders who don’t have the same standards or ideas of proper horse or property care will make for a LOT of headaches, but with a smaller facility it could also be hard to cover the costs of having a manager to screen boarders & tend to the property. I’d say if you could find someone to lease the barn for a small boarding business that might work, but definitely look into the insurance needs and get everything in writing on who is responsible for setting up, building out, and maintaining everything on the property. And get references!

[StevenSantos]

Can I just say, you are all amazing people!

The advice here has been second to none.

Thank you.

[SonnysMom]

Call the previous owner and ask them for references about the person that used to board there. Check with the neighbors to make sure it wasn’t a giant mud hole. Check with zoning of if you can have horses and how many.

I would focus on the person that was there before. They are easy to vet out and know what to expect from the property. They are much more of a known commodity to the previous owner and neighbors. You can ask the sell how much they were paying to rent the property.

Make sure you have a good boarding contract including notice, how many horses maximum, what maintenance they do, manure removal. I would be inclined for regular wear and tear such as fence rails, broken/chewed boards, etc… have the boarder do it. Major repairs that are not regular wear and tear such as If a tree falls down and takes out the fenceline that is on you to clean up and repair. New roof then that is up to you to replace.

Insurance is your friend.

[caryledee]

I board my horses at a self care facility where the owners are not horse people. It works well for us but honestly we are the exception to the rule because we all get along well and are self sufficient. I would never want to run a boarding barn though…there is always drama and horses love destroying things. The suggestion to rent the barn out for storage is a good one!