Ideas/supplements for horse with constant fecal water

[HunterDuSc]

@JB

I think some are unfamiliar with free fecal water syndrome. It’s not diarrhea. It’s not even loose manure. There is no definitive cause, therefore no definitive cure, but some common factors have been seen (but don’t apply to all horses). And things like parasites and dental needs have never been found to be a factor.

It’s normal manure, followed by a watery stream (or just a watery stream at any point, but usually right after passing the pile)

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/de…907&id=4952948
https://feedxl.com/how-to-treat-free-fecal-water/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc…37080616302210

Thanks for the links. I have to clarify this the barn staff sometimes. They say oh his poop looks good (how they see it in his stall). But the problem lies with the stream of fecal water that comes after and a bit during. On his worst days he even has this fecal water “farts” as I call them.

He is overall a happy horse and is good under saddle when not being a bit spooky. He really tries very hard! There does seem to be a big tie to low pecking order horses and anxious horses. He hates being on individual turnout and he seems to have the kindest friends we can find right now. The trazodone didn’t change fecal water (the thought was in a round about way that lower anxiety might help fecal water).

UPDATE: I pushed on the vet a bit and we are trying 25 days of omperazole to see if that helps him. Fingers crossed. If not then onto the next thing. My vet also had a new supplement come through her office for GI and is calling them to see if it may help fecal water.

The whole barn will be getting Quest after our first frost. Probably sometime in the next few weeks.

If not, I have oat flower and marshamallow root powder on my list to try after. Marshmallow root sounds very interesting on reading. I didn’t know much about it. I have many other supplements here to try too!

[JB]

@HunterDuSc

UPDATE: I pushed on the vet a bit and we are trying 25 days of omperazole to see if that helps him. Fingers crossed.

Since I know that’s $$$, are you open to trying Nexium? Just a thought.

If not then onto the next thing. My vet also had a new supplement come through her office for GI and is calling them to see if it may help fecal water.

Ohhh, what is that?

[RedHorses]

@JB

I think some are unfamiliar with free fecal water syndrome. It’s not diarrhea. It’s not even loose manure. There is no definitive cause, therefore no definitive cure, but some common factors have been seen (but don’t apply to all horses). And things like parasites and dental needs have never been found to be a factor.

It’s normal manure, followed by a watery stream (or just a watery stream at any point, but usually right after passing the pile)

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102907&id=4952948
https://feedxl.com/how-to-treat-free-fecal-water/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0737080616302210

:lol: My boy is the first case of fecal water caused by parasites? I’m surprised though perhaps I shouldn’t be as even the vet had worms crossed off the list when fecal checks were negative.

[Pony_Someday]

@HunterDuSc

Thanks for the links. I have to clarify this the barn staff sometimes. They say oh his poop looks good (how they see it in his stall). But the problem lies with the stream of fecal water that comes after and a bit during. On his worst days he even has this fecal water “farts” as I call them.

He is overall a happy horse and is good under saddle when not being a bit spooky. He really tries very hard! There does seem to be a big tie to low pecking order horses and anxious horses. He hates being on individual turnout and he seems to have the kindest friends we can find right now. The trazodone didn’t change fecal water (the thought was in a round about way that lower anxiety might help fecal water).

UPDATE: I pushed on the vet a bit and we are trying 25 days of omperazole to see if that helps him. Fingers crossed. If not then onto the next thing. My vet also had a new supplement come through her office for GI and is calling them to see if it may help fecal water.

The whole barn will be getting Quest after our first frost. Probably sometime in the next few weeks.

If not, I have oat flower and marshamallow root powder on my list to try after. Marshmallow root sounds very interesting on reading. I didn’t know much about it. I have many other supplements here to try too!

The supplement I previously mentioned, SmartGut Ultra, does include Marshmallow root, if that is of any interest to you.

I agree with you in regards to noting the correlation with anxiety. I’m not sure if you work with a trainer or not, but I wonder if working with him on the ground on a consistent basis (if that’s not a part of your regimen) to help him develop a greater sense of security might be a simple, nonmedicated intervention for the time being. You’ve already been doing whatever you can to address any potential gut pain/irritation, so whatever we can do to help him emotionally regulate might be a good next step. This might be worth experimenting with once you’ve started omeprazole.

I also agree with other posters to think about what kind of hay he is on, see how frequently that might get changed, and if your vet would recommend hay with a different nutritional makeup.

I would also be very wary of changing and adding supplements too much, and making very gradual changes, which is something that I’m sure you’ve been mindful of. My approach would be to come up with a plan with vet first, and only after that, focus on small, gradual changes, one at a time.

[jawa]

Can you try adding either Timothy or orchard grass pellets to his diet? My older pony has had this issue for years. I tried all of the things you have tried and the issue was better, but never completely gone. Once I started him on grass pellets the issue has resolved. My vet thinks the pony has “IBS” and that the long stem fiber that goes through his gut causes irritation. The addition of the grass pellets (even soaked) keep the LSF from irritating the intestinal wall.

[Limitless]

I’ve been dealing with fecal water with my gelding since late spring. I tried various diet changes, supplements, a several week course of metronidazole (with tapering), hind gut ultrasound pretty much normal, and what seems to have worked is a fecal transfaunation. Honestly, it’s a pretty inexpensive, low tech fix, and if I were in your shoes, I would give it a try without hesitation. I was really worried about dealing with this going into winter (blankets, ice, trying to clean bum and legs). So far so good.

[msloyer]

I had an older gelding with the same issue. Cultures and fecal eams all came back negative We tried several dietary changes and nothing helped. I had another vet look at him and she said she thought he had encysted strongyles even though he was on a regular de-worming program. Her suggestion was to give him one tube of Panacur every day for 7 days and 10 days after the last Panacur give him one tube of Ivermectin and he cleared up completely. Unfortunately, I lost him a few months later to an unrelated issue. It might be worth trying on your guy. Good luck.

[Equkelly]

Am I the only one that uses forco? Around here everyone uses it because I think the company is based in our state. I swear by it for my young mare with GI issues but I know a lot of people use it for their seniors with runny poo too.

[spencerlucy]

My older gelding started having this issue in his late teens. He was otherwise happy and himself but would pass a stream of water before and after passing normal looking manure and also would have the “squirts” on their own. It seemed worse when he was off grass pasture and on a hay-only diet. I also tried biosponge, succeed, sand clear, you name it. The one thing that did help was a round of metronidazole. Ten days on that and he would stay squirt-free for a few weeks so that is how I managed him for the last three or four years.

He was never colicky per se- but some days I could tell he wasn’t feeling his best and maybe looked a bit crampy. Some Banamine usually set him straight. Then this past Feb he experienced a major colic from an impaction and our only options were surgery or euthanasia. I elected surgery despite his age (24) and they discovered three fecaliths - one totally blocking his colon. He recovered from surgery without a hitch and is doing very well - gets ridden four or five times a week and feels better than he has in five years. My vet doesn’t wonder if the fecaliths had been rolling around in his gut for some time and irritating him causing the fecal water. Since surgery he has been squirt-free.

I was told at the time that fecaliths were a surprising outcome for him as usually they are found in ponies and young horses. Apparently my teasing that my guy is an overgrown Haflinger could have been pretty accurate!

[HunterDuSc]

@JB

Since I know that’s $$$, are you open to trying Nexium? Just a thought.

Ohhh, what is that?

Definitely open to nexium. He’s on the 25 days of omperazole now, will see how that does.

And not sure on what the supplement is. My vet is calling the rep, but will update when I know more!

[HunterDuSc]

@Pony Someday

The supplement I previously mentioned, SmartGut Ultra, does include Marshmallow root, if that is of any interest to you.

I agree with you in regards to noting the correlation with anxiety. I’m not sure if you work with a trainer or not, but I wonder if working with him on the ground on a consistent basis (if that’s not a part of your regimen) to help him develop a greater sense of security might be a simple, nonmedicated intervention for the time being. You’ve already been doing whatever you can to address any potential gut pain/irritation, so whatever we can do to help him emotionally regulate might be a good next step. This might be worth experimenting with once you’ve started omeprazole.

I also agree with other posters to think about what kind of hay he is on, see how frequently that might get changed, and if your vet would recommend hay with a different nutritional makeup.

I would also be very wary of changing and adding supplements too much, and making very gradual changes, which is something that I’m sure you’ve been mindful of. My approach would be to come up with a plan with vet first, and only after that, focus on small, gradual changes, one at a time.

Thanks, it looks like I can’t get SmartGut Ultra in Canada. I might try this one if needed: https://basicequinenutrition.ca/product/gastro-max/

And yes, each change has been very incremental, one at a time. We are trying omperazole now, so any further supplements would be after that course/depending on how that helps him.

I do work with a trainer and we do groundwork. But it hasn’t been as much of a priority lately. I’m going to go back to some of that and make it more of a priority.

[leheath]

I had a horse that had a variety of gut-related issues and did very well on SmartGut Ultra but eventually, I couldn’t afford it. I switched to G.U.T which is significantly cheaper, contains marshmallow root along with a variety of other things mentioned already in this thread, and the horse did just as well on it as they did on the SmartGut Ultra. Not sure if you can get G.U.T in Canada, but lots of places seem to carry it online so it seems more likely to be available.

[SecondInCommand]

My horse has the same thing - normal manure but free water. When it first started, the best thing I had for control was to switch him entirely off of first cut hay (mostly timothy), he only got second cut (more alfalfa). It was very clear if he was accidentally fed first cut, because he’d immediately get the squirts again. He also has some allergy issues that have become more sensitive with time, so a grain that he could previously tolerate had to be replaced. He spent several years on second cut only, and recently has been able to transition back to first cut without incident.

Good luck in finding a solution that works for your guy! Is contacting the previous owner an option? Perhaps they had a method of keeping it under control if it was an existing issue?

[Pico_Banana]

My horse also suffers from FWS. Barn staff doesn’t understand what it is at all. When really, all they need to do is look at the liquid poo on her stall walls and it should be clear there’s an issue. There’s some good stuff in this thread that I will consider. But what I am going to do first is when I move her home in a few weeks (yay!) is put her on an elimination diet. Hay only (and second cut per a suggestion above) and nothing else and see if it gets any better. I’m even seeing if I can get a different type of grass hay.

In the meantime, I help manage it by using diaper rash cream on her just like you would on a baby. Clean with baby wipes first, then put a thick layer of the cream – which is 40% zinc oxide – everywhere that might be irritated by the fecal water. It’s not a perfect fix but I think it helps. She certainly seems to appreciate it.

[rubygirl1968]

FWS in my gelding also. To me the most frustrating thing is that a lot of supplements work but for awhile but eventually quit after time and it’s getting harder to keep under control.

He’s had it for years, before he was mine and I was feeding at the barn he’s at.

It used to be only when he was on hay in the winter, now it’s all seasons. Uckele G.U.T. worked great for a long time but I had to go back to Equishure two months ago. It doesn’t work as well as it used to either, I still have to clean his legs often but they’re not dripping.

If it doesn’t improve in another couple of weeks I’ll have to try something else.

I have thought about a fecal transplant but haven’t gotten to that point yet.

[Limitless]

@rubygirl1968

I have thought about a fecal transplant but haven’t gotten to that point yet.

Rubygirl, seriously, it’s super low tech. No visits to horsepital. And probably less expensive than the supplements you are trying.

[ljc]

I know this solution won’t help the OP since she can’t control the hay being fed, but maybe my experience will help someone else. I’ve dealt with FWS for about four years. Tried every supplement. Ran every test. Vet suggested trying Teff hay, which is lower in sugar than the orchard grass hay he as eating. Within 72 hours of his first feeding of Teff, all the leakage stopped.

He recently went on a brief anti-Teff strike due to a reaction to some medication and during those couple of weeks he wouldn’t eat it, the FWS returned. Now he’s back on a 50/50 mix of Teff and orchard and his butt is clear.

Good luck. I have horrible memories of washing his butt and tail every day, every season.

[2tempe]

@JB

I think some are unfamiliar with free fecal water syndrome. It’s not diarrhea. It’s not even loose manure. There is no definitive cause, therefore no definitive cure, but some common factors have been seen (but don’t apply to all horses). And things like parasites and dental needs have never been found to be a factor.

It’s normal manure, followed by a watery stream (or just a watery stream at any point, but usually right after passing the pile)

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/de…907&id=4952948
https://feedxl.com/how-to-treat-free-fecal-water/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc…37080616302210

My horse has some history of this. (He is also a (white) gray:yes::no: ) We called it liquid farts. And perfect poop all the time. The Metronidazole worked and things would be good for a while. Then back again. This horse does have a somewhat sensitive gut, and certain hay will create a problem. As will spring grass/rainy season grass, even here in Fla. I’m pretty much resigned to a round of antibiotics 2x per year. He is almost 19. I do keep him on a pre/probiotic - “Full Bucket” and I swear it helps some. I would consider a fecal transplant at some point.

[PeteyPie]

It sounds like you have taken this into account already, but just in case, when you wormed him did you use a product containing praziquantel? Tapeworms are apparently difficult to detect in fecal samples. Three praziquantel products recommended for tapeworm on the Kentucky Equine Research site are Zimecterin Gold, Farnam’s ComboCare oral gel, and Equimax Paste.

[rubygirl1968]

@Limitless

Rubygirl, seriously, it’s super low tech. No visits to horsepital. And probably less expensive than the supplements you are trying.

I know prices vary widely, but do you know how much it is? Have you had it done?

I read on the fjord Facebook page that one lady had it done on multiple horses. Some it worked great on, some for a while and one it did nothing for. That would be my luck. Lol