Great post, Lieselotte. Agree whole-heartedly.
[QUOTE=Hidden;4787118]
I have also given up on the American tobacco trail. When they decided to pave over 1/2 of the trail to give greater access to the biker’s it was clear that the time for horse trails was over.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and it’s not like my horse is new to bikes. Often enough, DH and I trail ride together. Me on the ponygirl and he on his bike. Unfortunately, the majority rules… and the majority of cyclists know nothing of horses.
A bit OT, but it’s not really the mtn/trail bikers that really get to my girl, it’s the brightly colored ever so silent road cyclist that will send her overboard. Ever had a peloton of 75 to 100 or more riders come at your horse head on? That was NOT a good day and a few of them are extremely lucky she didn’t NAIL them as they whizzed by her.
[QUOTE=jazzrider;4786643]
We have a beautiful trail by our house called the W&OD, but I stopped riding it years ago. It just wasn’t safe for me or my horse, with all the inconsiderate bikers and completely clueless people. 
It just stopped being enjoyable. Fortunately for us, there are lots of other trails around.[/QUOTE]
I used to ride the W&OD too. They had a bluestone trail that went up and down the hills while the paved trail was fairly level. Way too many brain dead breeders, pushing prams side by side and blocking the trail…so the guys started using the horse trails and most were total jerks.
The C&O Canal can be a challenge…fishermen, bikers, hikers, lots of dogs and even kayakers. There is the usual jerk contingent but most people are pretty good to deal with.
I used to use a narrow bridge over where the boaters accessed Lake Seneca (actually part of the Potomac River). One jackass revved his boat trying to scare the horses…my mare peed right at that point and it dropped down on his boat…a slight bit of Karma…but way too many bike riders are jerks…towards cars and them following the same traffic laws and horses with their bad attitudes…while motorcycles riders are amazingly polite and seem to appreciate another rider of a big beast. 4x4 riders also seem pretty good when it comes to the horses…
I really don’t know where the “beer swilling trail riders” comes from…I sure don’t see people drinking, riding and littering where I’ve ever ridden, far from it. I’d guess these people are rare to almost non-existant (kind’ve like the drunken hunter BS)
Another 
Obviously, the biggest concern expressed by equestrians deals with both real and perceived dangers of horses being scared by cyclists. Accidents have occurred causing injuries, and even a few horse fatalities. Sometimes these have been caused by inconsiderate rude behavior on the part of cyclists. Sometimes by inexperienced horse riders or spooky horses, and sometimes by a combination of all three. Land managers find that the actual number of significant incidents involving bikes and horses are few, relative to historical use of all users.
Serious accidents have been occurring for centuries on trails used by horses. The advent of mountain bikes didn’t change the horse’s basic nature, and the risk that equestrians take when riding on narrow trails has always been present. Deer, quail, bee hives, other horses with rude riders galloping up and inciting a herding reaction–these things have always been a risk to equestrians. Now there’s just one more potential risk thrown into the melee. This is a consequence of the changing demographics of our times.
While we often hear of the conflicts, we usually don’t hear of the thousands of trail enthusiasts who have no problems with bikes or horses. We tend to remember the dramatic, and forget the everyday. Horror stories are told, retold, and embellished, but commonplace trail rides where equestrians and cyclists interact without incident are forgotten and never mentioned.
Adjoining areas can have completely different attitudes towards horse and bikes. In Marin County, in northern California, equestrians and cyclists have seemingly been at war for 10 years. Many equestrians from that area are uncompromising in their belief that multiple-use of trails is an impossibility. Yet a mere trot away across a valley is China Camp State Park, where the Superintendent refused to be swayed by the “conventional wisdom,” and opened multi-use singletrack trails. There have been no incidents there over several years. The Superintendent had the benefit of years of experience with bikes and could be proactive.
Conejo Open Space District (COSD) north of Los Angeles is another example where informed land managers ignored dire warnings of perceived danger, and told the users that they would have multi-use trails. Horses had been there for a long time, when nearby jurisdictions began closing trails to bikes. COSD refused. Again, they had the benefit of several years of national experience with bikes, and were able to be proactive rather than reactive. The users were not offered the choice of bickering among themselves, and in fact got together to create a multi-use trail system that continues to function well today.
Trail Impact
Environmental concerns must play a large role in guiding the ways we all enjoy the outdoors. Cyclists have often taken punches on the issue of erosion. We have even had equestrians launch attacks at public hearings, indicating that bikes would somehow cause too much damage and destroy trails. This is not appropriate. It has been shown by studies that the impact of hikers, bikes and horses is relatively similar, compared to the impact of building the trail in the first place. It is foolish for equestrians and cyclists to be at all divided on this issue. Keep in mind that horses have been justly and unjustly under attack for trail damage for decades.
In reality, the impact of all users is significantly less than the impact of water. A poorly designed trail that get’s zero use will erode more than a well designed trail that receives heavy use by anybody. What we should all care about most is building and rebuilding trails to make them sustainable. Trails designed for bicycling, equestrian, or motorcycle use need more thorough engineering than a hiking trail. It is important for land managers to realize that the impacts of non-motorized use are relatively the same, and to construct trail to handle the heaviest use. Any trail strong enough to handle horses, can handle bikes.
Trail width necessary to accommodate both uses is subject to controversy. Some jurisdictions, particularly those which formed regulations during the early days of mountain bikes, require road sized-trails in order to accommodate both uses. Nowadays, more information and experience indicates that significantly smaller trails are better for multiple use. Narrow trails tend to slow users down, and in that respect, are less dangerous. The narrower the trail, and the more features such as turns, rises and falls, obstructed views, and occasional protruding rocks or roots, the slower mountain bikers will go. Most experienced mountain bikers would rather ride these challenging trails than smooth, wide open trails that encourage high speeds.
Width of trails can depend upon proximity to urban areas. In the San Francisco Bay Area, China Camp State Park is very close to large population centers. Its multiple use trails are four to five feet wide, become narrower as vegetation fills in, and accommodate horses and bikes very well. In the backcountry, any trail wide and tall enough for a horse, can also accommodate a bike.
So, what are the problems in more detail, and what solutions will work? I’ve divided the approach into three areas: the cyclist’s responsibility, the equestrian’s responsibility, and our collective responsibility.
[IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/horse_biker.jpg)
Cyclist’s Responsibility
Education works very well to solve trail conflicts. IMBA has developed the Rules of the Trail for cyclists, which, if followed, almost always eliminate problems. In their short form, they are distributed world-wide. Our rules for dealing with horses are as follows:
- All cyclists must continually watch for horses, and slow down when the sightlines are poor.
- Cyclists must make sure that the horse knows they are there, and that they are human, not predators. A backpack or a bike may appear to a horse to be a hungry animal. Voice communication is the best way to provide this assurance, though in some areas, bells work well. Since people (with voices) feed horses, and bells don't, voice contact is generally better. Cyclists should also speak with the equestrian. This encourages positive relationships between users as they greet one another on the trail.
- The approach to the horse is the most critical moment. From the front, the cyclist should stop, and check with the equestrian, if necessary stepping off the trail on the downhill side to allow the horse to pass. When approaching from the rear, we urge care to alert the horse and rider that we are coming, in sufficient time to avoid spooking either. Once communication is established, the equestrian will often have the best suggestion about how to pass. It may be necessary to wait for a wider spot in the trail. Often the cyclist will leave the trail (on the downhill side) to allow the horse to move to the rear. When passing, it goes without saying that cyclists should proceed slowly and steadily, while still talking to the horse to help it relax.
- We suggest that cyclists not pet horses, without guidance from the equestrian. We do have a variant on that. We sometimes carry carrots, and give them as treats, always with the permission and instructions from the equestrian. We have had local "Carrot Days". One of my horsey pals suggests that equestrians with spooky horses carry carrots themselves. When encountering cyclists, the horseback person tosses the carrot on the ground, and asks that the cyclist give it to the horse. With this approach, we can get the horse to think of cyclists as food providers rather than predator. Perhaps this will be a step in the right direction. But it isn't always a perfect solution. Many equestrians don't feed their horses when the horse has a bit in its mouth. Sometimes nose bands are too tight for the horse to open its mouth and accept a treat. There is a specific way to feed a carrot to a horse without losing ones fingers. Again, this depends upon the horse and upon clear communication with its rider.
This discussion about education would be incomplete without mentioning education within the equestrian community. Any kind of riding requires skills. This includes both stadium and trail riding. Trail riding requires learning the skills necessary to be outside of the arena, including riding with bikes and other users. We are all aware of instances where riders attempt to ride animals that are beyond their skill level. Some horses can spook at any time. I remember one example where a horse jumped at a piece of paper during a public trail dedication and threw its rider. This was a combination of a borrowed horse and rider error. An equestrian friend reacted strongly to this incident, arguing that people who borrow horses and can’t stick on when the horse spooks should be considered just as irresponsible as mountain bikers who can’t control their bike’s speed. The consequence of a loose horse galloping away from a dumped rider on a singletrack trail can’t be ignored. Equestrians must be subject to the same level of responsibility as mountain bikers, and it’s unfair to accuse a mountain biker of being always at fault when a horseback rider is thrown. One equestrian acquaintance has also strongly suggested that some horses simply don’t belong on the trail at all.
As mountain bikers, we are willing to acknowledge that there are some reckless riders in our community, and we are working to educate them. We think it reasonable to request the same level of conscientiousness from the equestrian community in training horses and riders to ride trails.
As stated earlier, most horses can be trained to withstand almost anything. We have developed programs to assist in this. We often have horse desensitization clinics, not unlike the obstacle course events that equestrians are familiar with. Cyclists maneuver repeatedly around the horse, in as close quarters as circumstances permit. Where appropriate, we ask that the cyclist act rudely, so that the horse gets used to that. The results can be spectacular. Some equestrians perform this type of training frequently to make their horses brave on the trail.
A few years ago, Sharon Gibson suggested rules horsemen could follow, which would increase their safety and enjoyment of trails. These appeared in Equestrian Trails on October of 1991, and included:
[LIST=1]
Collective Responsibility
Our combined responsibilities are even greater than those owed to our own user groups. We can only succeed as a united community. There are several ways we can fulfill these responsibilities.
We’ve got to share responsibility for our irresponsible members. Trail patrols are proven methods of easing tensions and educating users. Combined patrols, which involve all user groups, are particularly effective. Patrollers receive training, often including CPR and first aid instruction. They may work with public safety departments. They act as a peer group, giving advice on proper trail behavior, and being role models. IMBA has a National Mountain Bike Patrol, patterned after the National Ski Patrol.
Joint events are proven ways to encourage a happy trail community. Dramatic evidence of this comes from the Peninsula south of San Francisco. Imagine this scene: A well meaning equestrian sees a pack of horses riding towards him, and not far behind, some cyclists. He rushes forward to warn his pals that bikes are coming. He is met with the reply, “That’s OK, they’re with us.” This happens during the annual Romp and Stomp ride. “ROMP” refers to the Responsible Organized Mountain Pedalers, a mountain biking group, and “stomp” refers to the horses that participate in the ride. Every year the group meets for a picnic and a joint ride. They go on the same trails, to the same destinations, in mixed groups. Cyclists and equestrians get positively giggly with sentiment and good feelings for each other during the course of the ride.
Perceptions after participating in that event have changed dramatically. One equestrian who actively and vocally detested mountain bikes attended a Romp and Stomp event, perhaps only to prove that it would not work. After the event, she completely reversed her stance. She became completely enthused with bikes and wanted them on the trails with her. Sure, most situations will not result in a “conversion” such as this–the trail to Damascus isn’t always easy–but it does illustrate the subjective nature of the problem.
Events also can include competitions. A few years ago, a cyclist beat a horse on a 100 mile trail ride for the first time, which was exciting news for me and my cyclist and equestrian friends. We have heard about relay races and poker runs that have combined teams. There have been ride and tie events, and relatively athletic events where equestrians and cyclists have switched mounts in mid event. We find it best if these events take place on the same route, which is entirely possible if the participants are prepared.
Horse groups often invite cyclists to participate in their events. For example, cyclists often provide obstacles for horses to negotiate in safe style in trail trials events. They also help with crowd control and alerting other users during equestrian endurance events.
That old standby event, the trail project, is one of the best ways to build community among users, and at the same time give something back to the land that serves us so well.
We build our trail community by working together with land managers on trail and open space advocacy. We have all seen instances where different user groups enter advocacy situations at each other’s throats. This almost never works. It leaves bitter feelings, and often a net loss to the trail family. In fact, our diversity of use ought to be our main strength.
A while ago, we completed a multi-year effort to obtain access to a water district’s land. We wanted access for bikes and increased access for other users Horses and hikers could already use it under a permit system. We made a big effort to go in with a united community, and the multi-use trail council presented a proposal for this increased access. During the hearing, most testimony favored the increased access, but a few equestrians bolted from the trail council, and said that the land in question was “too special” for bikes. They even used the trail council’s name, indicating that they were the minority view. We all lost. No bikes were allowed and the equestrians did not get the access they wanted.
After that hearing, the board members had a few things to say. Most indicated that not only did they not like bikes, they also wished there were no horses on the water district’s land. The rebel horse people made faces as long as their horses’. They were next! To top it off, the rest of the trail council was very irritated at this public display of a lack of unity, and it took a while to get back on track. All trail users lost this round.
In another case involving access to nearby water district land, the same trail community presented a cohesive and united approach. Virtually everyone who spoke at public hearings was in favor of equal access for bikes, horses and hikers. This included a strong coalition of trail users, the same trail council referred to above, the environmental community and the press.
This time the trail community won in important aspects. It emerged united, prepared to advocate for trails and open spaces with renewed vigor. It got over 12 miles of trail for bikes and horses that would not have happened without this collaborative effort. It also got the promise from the district board to examine the issue again.
So, on the advocacy front, we urge cyclists, hikers, equestrians and land managers to band together to achieve our goals. In so doing, we must keep in mind that these are indeed mutual goals–we share much more than we disagree on. Keep in mind that advocacy involves a multi-way trail. Users and land managers should be sensitive to each other’s needs. We also must be sensitive to the needs of land managers. We’ve got to collaborate to keep track of the myriad of legislative, funding and maintenance matters that impact our trails and open spaces.
Multiple or Shared Use
There are many general, yet persuasive reasons to favor multiple use trails wherever possible. Sometimes there is pressure from other trail users who don’t want bicyclists on “their” trails, perhaps because they feel their sweat equity gave them ownership, or simply because they were there first. This country club mentality has no place on the public lands. Mountain bikers now form a huge tax paying group–the largest in many areas, and it is unjust to exclude them from land that is purchased and maintained by their tax dollars.
To the extent these views predominate, land managers feel forced to provide separate trail opportunities to cyclists who represent a significant percentage of trail users. This can lead to trail saturation in ecosystems best left wild. It is truly a loss for everyone when social management of different user groups negatively affects the wildlife that calls those lands home.
Over the years, IMBA has devised several points in favor of a trail system that is generally multiple use :
[LIST=1]
To sum up, I hope I have convinced you to support shared use as a preference. That doesn’t mean all trail must be shared use–equestrian only trails are certainly appropriate some times, particularly on private property. But we do feel strongly that at least non motorized users ought to generally share the trails together, and act together as family members in the trail community. If we don’t do this, consider the consequences. Developers are constantly after our trails and open spaces. Huge resources for the environment, such as the potentially $900,000,000 Land and Water Conservation Fund will be lost without collaborative effort. Both equestrians and cyclists have been unjustly under attack, and there is always the risk that both groups will be picked off in access disputes. So let’s work together and make it better for us all.
Thanks for the votes of confidence everyone. Penny is a dream boat! I know that not many horses would willingly cross that bridge…especially since it BONG BONG BONGS with every hoof fall due to steel framing. But this is the same mare that I got within 30 feet of a steam-driven Pile Driver!
I know that we are VERY outnumbered in the cylist to horse ratio, so always do my best to profusely thank every cyclist who does announce their presence with an ON YOUR LEFT or even just says “Hi! Nice horse!” I want to encourage that behavior and, if I get a chance to chat, ask them to pass the word on.
I also posted this PSA on the SCT Facebook page quite a while back:
Cyclists & Equestrians: How We Can Co-Exist Safely & Politely on the SCT …
[I]CYCLISTS:
Horses are “prey” animals and have a natural, usually uncontrollable instinct to react fearfully to something coming up behind them by spooking. This is their natural Flight reaction. This reaction may include spinning, rearing, side-stepping or even kicking out…all of which can be dangerous to the horse, the rider and/or you & your bike! So the second you see a horse, IMMEDIATELY let the rider know you are coming up behind them with a clear “ON YOUR LEFT!”…loud enough for the rider to hear. Then slow down as you pass the rider. Whenever possible and safe, pass with a wide margin. Remember, it is State law and your personal responsibility/requirement to Yield To The Horse & Rider. For all bridges, stop your bike and wait for the horse/rider to complete the bridge crossing. DO NOT approach and certainly DO NOT ride up behind any horse on a bridge!
Note: For the most part, equestrians can safely ride on the dirt side of the SCT concrete path or ride within the tree-lined trails in the woods. However, some parts are just too narrow for the horse to safely negotiate, have a severe drop off, a mile-marker sign or may have water/mud that a horse will not go through. Therefore, there may be times when you will come upon a horse/rider on the concrete itself. Again, just let the rider know you are there and pass slowly.
If you are stopped on the side to take a break and a horse/rider passes you, please do not approach to pet the horse without asking permission first. The rider may be training their horse and cannot stop or would prefer to keep a safe distance from you for their personal safety if riding alone…especially in light of unfortunate incidents of the past. If you are biking with your child(ren), instruct your children to immediately stop their bike and wait as the horse passes. Children often become enamored at the sight of a horse and forget to watch where they’re going! Same rules for kids petting horses: Just Ask First! (and do not be offended if the rider says “no.” - It’s not personal nor does it mean the horse bites/kicks. We’re just being safe. )
EQUESTRIANS:
Please ride on the grassy/dirt side of the SCT or within the wooded trails running parallel whenever possible. The concrete path is for cyclists, walkers, etc. Should you HAVE to be on the concrete, stay as far right as possible and go only at the walk. If your horse poops on the concrete path, immediately dismount and kick it off to the side. If you cannot dismount/mount from the ground, consider purchasing a Bun Bag that attaches to your saddle to catch the manure for later disposal. (www.bunbag.com)
Equestrians should ride in a single file line on the right, since there is simply not enough room to ride abreast safely. Trotting and/or cantering should ONLY be done in areas where you are 100% sure you can easily see far enough down the trail. Blind curves and hills should be walked.
If you come upon another horseback rider and wish to pass, please ask “MAY I PASS?” and wait for the other rider to acknowledge you/give permission. Pass as widely as possible or (if the path is open), cross to the other side of the concrete path to pass before returning to the right to avoid the possiblity of either horse kicking/being kicked.
IMPORTANT!!! If your horse is a known kicker, you have the responsibility to tie a Red Ribbon in his/her tail to warn approaching riders.
For all bridges, it is recommended that you dismount and walk your horse across. However, some people for various reasons simply cannot do so. In those times, unless you are sure your horse will cross the bridge without spooking, DO NOT ride across. Tis better to turn around and go back then risk severe injury to you or your horse.
When you have to ride across a bridge, wait to the side for any cyclist or walker traffic to clear before proceeding. If you are half-way across and see approaching cyclists, stand up in your stirrups, hold up your hand and say loudly “STOP!” Remember, you’re not being rude. You are being safe. Naturally, thank the person(s) when you get across for their yielding to you and your horse.
A big THANK YOU in advance to all cyclists and equestrians alike for showing Southern Hospitality to each other and the visitors to the SCT. [/I]
Methinks it’s time to send the above PSA via Color Flyer to the bike shops that rent bikes along the SCT, as well as within cyclist forums. It’s a matter of educating the masses.
Delusional
Reading these nice reasonable posts makes me think that these writers must be optimistic people who believe in people wanting to help each other and get along. How I wish that their world was the real world.
The real world is bikers screaming at a eight year old girl to clean up her horses mess and do it now or else , the real world is bikers racing up on horses tail and slamming on their brakes to scare the horses off the trail. The real world is bikers working together to run the equestrian off “their” trails. The real world is bikers playing “chicken” going down the middle of the 12 foot wide multi-use trail.
All of the above are true stories of the ATT “rail to trail” in NC.
Of course the majority of bikers are nice people who abide by the rules but there are to many nasty bikers who have ruined it. These bikers have also almost run over my leashed dog so they want everyone off the trail.
They have won as most horse people have stopped riding the ATT its just no fun to have to deal with the danger or aggravation from bikers. I have even been crowded off the trail while walking!
we must fight for separate trails for horses and walkers, the bikes need to be on there own trails .
The only way multi-use trails work is if they are used on separate days. The speed difference between a bike and horse makes the situation dangerous even if everyone is polite and follows the rules. What fun is it to ride a trail when you can’t canter because of what may be coming at you that you can’t see.
I give…
Well, I guess I’m just an eternal optimist. 
Please don’t misunderstand… truly, the idiots I encounter(ed) are the exception, not the norm on the SCT. These are the Lance-Armstrong-Wannabes, with their tights and water packs, etc. The average folks are ok…especially the mountain bikers because they KNOW they have to share the dirt trail with us. Besides, we’re bigger 
For anyone who wants a taste, if you are on FaceBook, you can watch this brief video of Penny and I on that very bridge last fall: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/video/video.php?v=1166826445824 - Good sound of the BONG!
This has certainly NOT been my experience.
Yep, I’ve maintained this delusion for over 30 years of riding. Of course there are going to be nasty people out there. Believe me, I deal with them, and they usually apologize when I finish. I also have the Park Rangers on speed dial. During a conflict, I offer to call the rangers to settle it. So far, they have backed down.
But these are the exceptions, to be vented about and forgotten. Would you like to be painted with the same brush as riders who drink and ride, gallop up on other riders and scare their horses? I think not. They are out there, too, upsetting cyclists, hikers, and other horse people.
Rude people are rude people whether on bicycles or horses. If I had your view, I would not get out of bed in the morning. I’ll keep my delusions.
I just told my husband that I’m reading this thread about the bikes and horses on trails and he said to tell you all that they really try to give the right away. I told him that he only knows the area he rides in, mostly Fair Hill in MD. So I guess locally we got it into their heads for the most part, at least those who ride in bike clubs. My husband rides and races over the road, cyclo cross and mountain bike so he’s had to learn the rules and the people he rides with must have also figured it out. Not sure how, so I’m guessing the problem riders are the rouges. My husband does get to see how horses behave because he cuts the grass around my guys and well, they are alive, not machines.
By the way, if you take your dogs with you then you can always tell the cyclist that you won’t send you beast after them if they don’t get near you and your horse, lol. I know cyclist sure complain when being chased by a dog and they get hurt and rightfully so. I had a German Shepherd who was never interested in bikes because she always saw my husband on his.
It coould be a regional thing too. Here in CT the mountain cyclists I’ve run into run about 30/70 of morons vs polite athletes. (in favor of the polite athletes)
The road cyclists run about 80/20 rude clueless morons vs folks who actually know or care about…well, the laws or safety.
And around my general area you need to do a little road riding here and there to get to trails.
The road cyclists mostly just race right by you, swerving and passing close enough that you can easily touch them. They do this to cars, horseback riders and people walking. Only people they give way to are runners/joggers it seems.
They ride side by side by side…3 across most often. Blocking entire lanes. They both text and chat on their cells while cycling. They ignore traffic lights and stop signs. They weave in and out of cars waiting at stop signs and traffic lights. They zoom by and call out insults to folks on horseback. (get off the road, etc) And they don’t carry any way of identifying them if you try to report any law breaking…so they can do whatever the heck they please.
They’re a blight on this entire area. Sadly for the few decent ones. :no:
And it seems in CT the trails are mostly kept up by the casual trail riders and serious backpackers/hikers. The cyclists don’t show up for trail rebuilding, litter pick ups, etc. Neither do the dirtbikers or ATVers…but then they’re slowly being banned off many of the trails anyways. Not that it keeps them off the trails, just away from the trail maintenance days. And the problem riders of the motorized stuff is by and large the younger kids, not the adults. Those are usually plite enough to try to keep things safe when they see horses. The kids…they think it’s hilarious to try to chase you or spook the horses. And they rip up the trails.
[QUOTE=walkers;4787294]
The real world is bikers screaming at a eight year old girl to clean up her horses mess. <snip> The real world is bikers working together to run the equestrian off “their” trails.
They have won as most horse people have stopped riding the ATT its just no fun to have to deal with the danger or aggravation from bikers. I have even been crowded off the trail while walking!
The only way multi-use trails work is if they are used on separate days. [/QUOTE]
I have been yelled at because of horse poop too. Different trail, but still…
I have also heard that soon enough the ATT will be closed to horses altogether
And it isn’t just bikers, sadly. Because the ATT is relatively flat, 5 different highschool XC teams could, by chance, all choose to train at the same time on the same section of trail. Bikes aside, a massive sea of white t-shirted runners is a danger-danger to a prey animal. Ask me how I know…
Bottom line is modern suburban sprawl and horses just don’t mix.
I understand all that. I don’t really have a “I’m better than you bikers because I have a horse” attitude. I mountain bike as well, so I understand how hard it can be to find a technical trail that also allows bikes. Because you know, bikes damage trails.
I agree that with multi use trails, the alternate days might just be the answer. TSALI Recreation Area in the Nantahala National Forest does this. There are 4-5 routes and days that are alternated between horses and bikes. I’ve not ridden horses there because it is so far from me, but I’ve ridden bikes there numerous times. Actually DH proposed on a bluff above Fontana lake, but I digress… it works!!!
I’ll speak for the other side. I find most mountain bikers to be very respectful. Almost all of them ( if they see us) pull off to side and stop while we pass. I often call ahead and tell them to keep coming because my horses are used to seeing them, as long as they see them coming, It’s no big deal. Most riders stop and say they needed a break anyway, and take a breather while we go past. They usually comment “Nice Looking Horse” and I reply " Cool Bike"
There are several bridges I have to cross. But they are in lower ravines where the creeks flow. When I come across the ridges above them I look way down the trail and try to see if a biker is close enough that we might meet on the single track down to or crossing the bridges. Our bridges are absolutely single track. Only about 30 inches wide. So there is no passing on a bridge. If I see bikers coming, I ask the horse to sit and wait for the bikers. I know they want their speed coming down the hill and want to maintain as much as possible for the uphill climb.
Probably the hardest thing for me, is when I prune the trails. I ride a 16-1 hand horse, I’m 6’2" So I want to prune stuff 8 - 9 foot off the ground. The bikers and hikers keep stuff clear 6 foot and lower. So it’s up to riders like me to clear the tall stuff. When i’m holding the reins in one hand and pruners in the other. It’s tough to catch everything I cut off. These branches fall on the trail occassionally and I know the bikers hate them because th often get caught up in the spokes. Horses drop road apples on the trails and people not used to being around horses seem to have an aversion to getting road apples on their tires which flips up into the faces. Also the bikers hate it when we ride down a soft trail and leave post holes in the mud or crusted snow. So they have some valid arguments for side also.
It really is in our interest to get along with them, educate rather than call them names. show them as much as much respect as your would to see. If opportunity allows, take your horse off the trail if the biker is working hard at climbing a grade. and if nothing else, Verbally thank those that do yied to you.
I’m still optimistic that different trail users can peacefully co-exist on the same trails, without having to set aside specific days for each group to use the trails.
Of course, there is just as much of a problem with careless, rude equestrians when it comes to sharing the trails.
There are the drinkers who tear through the trail and don’t stop or slow down for anyone. If you’re in the way, they will just plow right into you and your horse. I’ve run into them. . .sometimes quite literally. . .and my opinion of them is no higher than the jerks who tailgate horses with their bikes.
Or, there are the riders who go off the marked trails, or use trails that horses are not supposed to be on. It doesn’t exactly give horsemen a great reputation, when cyclists find fresh piles of manure on trails that are closed to horses. A majority of those riders are people who just trailer in for a day, or camp for the weekend, and take no real “ownership” of the potential damage they are causing.
The thing that really gets to me about the new paved bike trails that are springing up locally, is the fact that they are being funded largely through state and local grants. The local park manager came to one of our horse council meetings last year to discuss the upcoming bike trail project, and someone asked him about who will be in charge of maintaining the new trail. After all, the state park budgets are stretched thin as it is.
He just shrugged and shook his head, and replied that this wasn’t the first time a project (like the bike trail) came into the park with big plans, but failed to follow through by maintaining it. Supposedly, the towns plan on using their own manpower and equipment to keep the trails clear for cyclists, but the manager didn’t sound optimistic that they’d be consistent about it.
The local county horse councils do all of the maintenance of the horse (and shared hiking) trails. With 55 miles, including a 32 mile loop through areas that are not easily accessible, the task is ongoing. Some of the people who are still active in the local club were actually involved in originally cutting the trails when the park was created. So, while the park owns the land, the horsemen are pretty much on their own when it comes to keeping the trails open.
On one side of the lake, there is a system of mountain bike trails that occasionally intersects the horse trail. Again, the result of a group/club that pretty much cut their own trail and must keep it maintained, along with building the obstacles. I only ride that side of the lake a few times a year, but my encounters with the MBs have always been positive, with mutual respect for the fact that it is up to each group to be sure we still have trails to ride.
But then. . .you have the asphalt-cyclists. They simply show up and ride. They didn’t have to build the beautiful, fancy, $200k bridge across one of the wide shallow streams, and they can just report any trail obstructions to the town maintenance department to have them clean it up.
One section of “their” trail is still on an existing (but dead end) road which they DO sometimes have to share with horses and riders, as it is a crossing point with the horse trails. There are signs all along that section, with pictures of bicycles and the words SHARE THE ROAD. From the way the cyclists act, though, they OWN that road.
The responsibility to work together certainly extends to all parties, and all parties contain a few jerks who are going to continue to think the trail is theirs. In that park, at least, I have yet to see the asphalt cyclists actually contribute anything besides headaches and near-accidents.:mad:
What fun, eh?
The Washington Bridle Trails Association was started 80 years ago…horse trails all through Rock Creek Park from Washington into Maryland. The bike riders whined, the idiot breeders whined, the walkers whined…“We want the trails for us, those horses poop and they scare our children”. So, the trails in Maryland were mostly paved over and horses can’t use them. Many of the trails in DC are non-horse allowed. It’s the typical disaster…someone else did the development work and maintenance and the losers come later to steal the fruits of someone else’s labour.
Karmic Balancing Story:
I board in Western Montgomery County Maryland…lots of nice roads and a plentitude of DC road bike riders with bad attitudes. They have a race or ride and they try and block roads…too bad, life’s full of disappointments even for guys in way too much spandex and not enough underwear.
I was driving my horse and saw a car with blinking flashers coming so I pulled off on the grass (but not before my horse left a wonderful pile of meadow muffins dead center in the road). The car came with 1 biker behind them. I figured it was a charity rider earning money for something worthwhile. Then another rider or two came by and did some fancy riding to avoid the pile-o-poop. We were just waiting and watching the “dinner and a floorshow”. Then, a solid pack of riders 6 abreast and 10 long barreled up and met the dreaded turds…it was a lovely pile-up. Schaudenfreud was in full flower and I did enjoy it immensely. Gotta’ admit, I hate the road bike riders…and I’d say it’s closer to 95% jerks. I got dirty looks yesterday from a pack of them (on the same road) who just were stopped in the road having a chat…I dared to beep at these self-proclaimed superior people (bikes are so much more sensitive and green than those nasty car denizens.)
[QUOTE=Trakehner;4787719]
I was driving my horse and saw a car with blinking flashers coming so I pulled off on the grass (but not before my horse left a wonderful pile of meadow muffins dead center in the road). The car came with 1 biker behind them. I figured it was a charity rider earning money for something worthwhile. Then another rider or two came by and did some fancy riding to avoid the pile-o-poop. We were just waiting and watching the “dinner and a floorshow”. Then, a solid pack of riders 6 abreast and 10 long barreled up and met the dreaded turds…it was a lovely pile-up. Schaudenfreud was in full flower and I did enjoy it immensely. Gotta’ admit, I hate the road bike riders…and I’d say it’s closer to 95% jerks. I got dirty looks yesterday from a pack of them (on the same road) who just were stopped in the road having a chat…I dared to beep at these self-proclaimed superior people (bikes are so much more sensitive and green than those nasty car denizens.)[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Love it!!! Sadly though most of them most likely blamed the horse and not their idiot selves.
[QUOTE=ChocoMare;4786528]
Due to an incident, I had to post the following PSA to my FaceBook account, as well as the FB Group for The Silver Comet Trail:[/QUOTE]
Because I know the trail and bridge of which you speak (being a cyclist myself,) THANK YOU FOR POSTING THAT! I will now forward it onto every single SCT group of which I am a member.
I cringe every time I see a cyclist come zooming up behind [normally well-trained] horses, and I slow down…just WAITING for something to happen.
There are many rude and pretentious cyclists on the SCT that will crash into slow-moving pedestrians, cut them off, etc. and then sneer/yell at them.
This past weekend we were biking. We had stopped to take a water break (off the trail,) and a family of three had just stood up and were standing slightly on the edge of the trail to fix their son’s backpack. A cyclist came flying head-on to them and then cut to the side at the last minute flailing his arm at them and shouting, “DON’T YOU KNOW THE RULES OF TRAFFIC?! JESUS CH***T!!” As he approached a woman, obeying the “rules of the trail” - going slow, enjoying the view, pedaling her speed on the FAR right, he zipped past her and cut her off shouting, “GET OFF THE TRAIL!”
I have, however, found that for every pretentious you-know-what on the SCT, there are five respectful cyclists 
We ran across some Road-Jerks out in the middle of the country in northwest Georgia. Instead of riding on the right side of the road/as close to the side as they can get, they were riding right down the center line (I guess they thought they were safe doing so in the country.) I waited until traffic cleared and went around them, almost driving on the left shoulder. Two of the cyclists glared at me and shook their heads. Really? You’re riding in the middle of the road, and you get mad at us drivers who go WAY around you to avoid hitting you? Geez.
law of averages, I suppose.
too bad that he trail rage could have grave consequences…(don’t you want to clotheline those idiots tho :lol:)
[QUOTE=ChocoMare;4787275]
Methinks it’s time to send the above PSA via Color Flyer to the bike shops that rent bikes along the SCT, as well as within cyclist forums. It’s a matter of educating the masses.[/QUOTE]
Try the Silver Comet Depot off Floyd Road in Mableton. I’m sure they’d be more than happy to post this, and they are one of the most popular rental spots/starting spots on the trail (mile marker 4.2.)
YOU LIVE! :o Where you been girl? 
