Horses do come up sore after being trimmed to short, 24 hrs later. My horse did and I was pissed. What does the owner say about all this. This horse will not be sound for sometime. I would not assume to just put on shoes without the owner’s ok… Bute only mask the issue and doesn’t heal…, only time & growth will…
[QUOTE=kdow;8205533]
Does your trainer know about this aspect of things, that your husband isn’t entirely on board? I don’t mean in an airing all your dirty laundry to her way, but if having to investigate or manage a problem that requires regular vet visits and makes horse ownership more expensive is going to cause stress for you, then she should know that you really can’t be looking at horses that you KNOW are going to start off with those needs. (Obviously, with any horse sometimes poop happens, and you need to be prepared to deal with it, but a sound horse who after six months does something to himself in a freak incident in the field is a far cry in terms of how it will likely come across to someone non-horsey than one that you buy and then right away have to start pouring funds into the bottomless pit known as ‘mysteriously not quite right…’)[/QUOTE]
I’ve explained this, I am not shy about it, lol.
[QUOTE=HealingHeart;8205552]
Horses do come up sore after being trimmed to short, 24 hrs later. My horse did and I was pissed. What does the owner say about all this. This horse will not be sound for sometime. I would not assume to just put on shoes without the owner’s ok… Bute only mask the issue and doesn’t heal…, only time & growth will…[/QUOTE]
The owner wants the horse shod, which is what we will do. However, the horse is mysteriously no longer showing signs of soreness, so…shrug…?
Well, I have to have the farrier back out to shoe the horse, so I will have to ask him for his opinion on what happened. As I mentioned, he is very highly thought of around here. My vet uses him as well. I always watch him work and ask questions, but now I will watch with a suspicious eye and will be educating myself so that I can make my own determination of his competence. I am still not even 100% convinced this was all related to the trim. I’ll be interested in hearing his take on it.
[QUOTE=StillHorsinAround;8205566]
The owner wants the horse shod, which is what we will do. However, the horse is mysteriously no longer showing signs of soreness, so…shrug…?[/QUOTE]
May not be showing, but may still be sore. As mentioned, they instinctively hide what they can. Another way for the mysterious NQR horse to drive the owner crazy & bankrupt.
Please let us know what he says. Ask about anything you don’t understand due to jargon and/or lack of background. You can learn more from a good farrier than from many other horse professionals. 
The bute would probably mask any trim soreness, although the jumping made that a maybe/maybe-not. The trainer may have wanted to bute so she didn’t lose a lesson and didn’t lose a day trying the horse (assuming it was the trainer). Buting and jumping a horse with the inflammatory condition added complicating factors.
Bottom line - this is a hurting horse.
[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8205635]
The trainer may have wanted to bute so she didn’t lose a lesson and didn’t lose a day trying the horse (assuming it was the trainer). Buting and jumping a horse with the inflammatory condition added complicating factors.
Bottom line - this is a hurting horse.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry… Somehow the timeline of events got mixed up through all the posts. No one jumped the horse once he was on bute. He was trimmed, then jumped, and there was no indication he was sore this day at all. We went home without any concern in the world. The next day he was found to be visibly sore during his training ride with our trainer. Her husband the retired veterinarian thought it could be that he was trimmed a little short. He recommended starting bute and we did not ride. I believe we lunged then rode him very briefly (just A light hack) after 2 days of bute, then I chose to stop the bute and we only lunged him after that to evaluate him. It was about 3 days after the bute was stopped that he was next ridden, again very lightly. He has not been jumped since that lesson after his trim. He shows no discomfort with riding, but as you said, perhaps he is hiding it.
That is rather kinder than I thought. And - IMO - for evaluating the horse, it is still far too complicated a picture, and too many open questions, to take a chance on this horse. As said, just myself, I would not have tried him at all based on the initial information. I actually don’t believe it is the case there are no sound horses out there for your daughter and her level, I believe it is a matter of knowing where to look.
I do agree with what others have posted about successful arthritis maintenance, and that it could be do-able for a long time. But the caveat emptor is that it could also come to a sudden end because maintenance no longer worked, or else became needed at a level that was too expensive and, even then, not that fair to the horse (that’s where mine is after years of service, and he’s not sore on pasture or very light work). That also has a higher risk than a sound horse not showing arthritis. But that’s not your scenario.
We went home without any concern in the world. The next day he was found to be visibly sore during his training ride with our trainer.
This sequence of events is such a red flag for something really wrong (although not a definitive answer). No wonder you found it such a puzzle to figure out how this could relate back to the trim. I would not suggest that the retired vet husband was wrong in his guess, as it’s a starting point to rule out, manage or overcome. But another way of looking at it, rather than saying “it’s the trim”, it could be “it’s the trim that made another problem more tender, with work, than it was before”. But no way to know exactly just with what you have.
Kind of like a human foot with an old bruise or soreness near the bone. Person is used to it, ignores it, not a big deal, until a new athletic shoe finds it out. Now person says “hey that really hurts!” and realizes there could be big problems coming if old injury isn’t addressed, and maybe even if it is.
So was the cause of the painful reaction the new athletic shoe or the old injury, considering the old injury has been ignored until now? One could argue both answers are right. And it doesn’t mean that had the person just stuck with the old shoes, the old injury would have continued as it was - probably not. That’s how I see the husband’s suggestion - not necessarily wrong, just a big risk that isn’t the whole story. But he had no way to diagnose the whole story based on what was visible to him.
That’s my guess. And it’s still a hurting horse at least some of the time. The trial definitely showed you that.
And as you go forward, know that x-rays and MRI’s show some things, but they do not show everything. They are NOT the last word. This is very frustrating because we all want a definitive answer for our horse, and unfortunately that isn’t always available. All that is left is “NQR” and our best guess today as to what to do about it. You can find dozens of threads on COTH on the endless mysteries of the NQR horse, and owners trying one thing after another, sometimes just turning the horse out for one or two years to see if that allows them to come right. No one wants to unintentionally buy into that from the get-go.
Has the farrier been out yet? Very interested in his thoughts & observations.
Thank you for sharing your story. It is truly a learning experience. I know that something horsey and good is going to happen for your family.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8198536]
Yes. They maybe reluctant to come out of their stall on to a hard surface. Walk like they are foundering. “Dive” for the turf to get off the pavement. Depending on things it can take more than a week before they are comfortable walking on a hard surface again.[/QUOTE]
A properly trimmed horse should NEVER, EVER be sore, especially to this extent, after a trim.
I’m afraid the mystery will have to remain a mystery. I told the owner we are sending back the horse, and I explained that the X-rays were of concern, and that his soreness, although possibly trim related, really didn’t help our confidence. I mentioned that the has not so far been shod and is moving well, and she made no mention that she requires it of me, so I don’t intend to sink any more dollars into him than the considerable amount I already have. Again thank all of you for your advice that helped me through this!
Good decision. WAY way too many uncertainties.
I also give you props for describing your daughter as an advanced beginner though she is jumping 2’6" courses. Many parents think poopsie is an experienced horse person because she can jump a 2’6" course on a school pony.
What are your daughter’s goals here? Why does she like hunter/jumper/equitation?
I’m just asking since others might be able to point you in the right direction of a suitable mount, either because they know of one or because they might have a “type” you should try. Pony Club would be ideal- and often times there are horses and ponies that get leased and passed around to younger students, which I think is a great situation. The only thing is… Pony Club is eventing focused. BUT very safe, functional, and FUN! Just not necessarily H/J.
[QUOTE=Ruth0552;8207703]
also give you props for describing your daughter as an advanced beginner though she is jumping 2’6" courses. Many parents think poopsie is an experienced horse person because she can jump a 2’6" course on a school pony.
What are your daughter’s goals here? Why does she like hunter/jumper/equitation?
I’m just asking since others might be able to point you in the right direction of a suitable mount, either because they know of one or because they might have a “type” you should try. Pony Club would be ideal- and often times there are horses and ponies that get leased and passed around to younger students, which I think is a great situation. The only thing is… Pony Club is eventing focused. BUT very safe, functional, and FUN! Just not necessarily H/J.[/QUOTE]
Daughter is 11. She’s been taking lessons since she was 7, in several disciplines. Her first lesson barn taught her so much but focused on nothing. She learned crossrails, horseballand other pony games, and even vaulting (which was really cool! By the time she left there she was standing on a moving horse and dismounted by doing a flip!) At the next barn she continued with the basics of jumping, dressage, and also western gaming. It wasn’t until we got to our current barn that she learned that jumping wasn’t just jumping… there was a difference between hunter, jumper and eventing jumping. Anyway, she is finally learning the special ways of doing things in one discipline, and comfortable, so I’d rather not change her up at this point. Her goals for the time being are just to go HIGHER. And to be competitive at what she does, which is hunter/equitation. She is, however, enjoying a feisty speed demon of a school pony that has introduced her to the potential fun of pony jumpers, though neither she nor the aging pony are capable those heights at this point. I see her trying that one day.
