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We own two imported jumpers. Quite different price ranges, but both were considerably cheaper then buying in NA. No idea who was the breeder, typically you are trying horses out of the sales/training barns.
To answer your questions, most horses are showing by 4, so by the time they are 5 they have shown to 1.20. Whatever you look at will probably have leads and show experience by age 5. If you are looking for a prospect that is aged 6/7, then it has been passed over by others for a reason. We look at 4/5 year olds. Recently we were told for a 1.45 prospect, it would cost 80k-100k for a 4 year old to give you an idea of prices.
We use two different dealers. One dealer is used by a team member/Olympian and other dealer was newer to us Typically you go for 3-4 days, look at anywhere from 15-35 horses, and the dealer will prescreen everything so you don’t waste your time looking at crap. They pick you up at the airport, drive you around farm to farm, set up every appointment and hotel,etcetc. Find a dealer who works with a local pro/someone who has very nice horses, as they will have an established reputation and want to uphold their brand name.
You watch them get ridden or you hop on yourself. You ride tons and jump tons (everything 1.20+++).
DO bring your coach. They will need to want this horse in their barn and will be selling it for you down the road as well.
First gelding was bought in Germany, flew out of Amsterdam I think, flown into NY, federal quarantine for 3 days, maybe at Cornell.
Second horse was a mare, flown out of Brussels into NY, did her CEM 3 day fed quarantine there, and moved to a quarantine barn outside Manhatten for another 18 days. Cost for the mare was 10k ($7600 for shipping/flight alone), gelding was maybe 8k. We used a company called Dutta that arranged shipping from the farm, to the airport, arranged the paperwork and flight, and the federal quarantine. Then for mares/stallions, you need to arrange the rest of the quarantine. It was very hassle free from our end.
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I notice that almost no US buyers come to France to buy their jumpers, despite the quality of the SF.
I think it has a lot to do with the language barrier (not so many people speak English, that is the opposite with the Dutch, Belgium and even Germans)
On top of that, France can’t fight against the marketing skills of their neighbors, it has always been a negative of the country, whatever the industry you look at.
The only positive is that it helps keep the prices lower when you look for nice prospects (for example the market for 4y/o is almost dead actually, a lot of good deals are probably sitting in the farms)
I hope that next generation of breeders will be more “export” oriented and will master foreign languages, in the meantime our breeders are suffering, but they manage to keep the quality of the horses, that’s what’s important for the future.
Sorry for being out of the subject. but couldn’t resist.
(BTW I’m not a breeder, having a foal every other year, for the pleasure of watching them grow)
Yeah, they buy in France too. Lots of them. One of the better known agents that works with US Hunter/Jumper trainers and lines up sales trips is based in Paris when she is not over here.
It’s is very much a matter of contacts and networking that determine if your buying trip presents you with quality options in your price range, you get a good one and trouble free import or get screwed and end up in court-and THAT is no joke when it involves International commerce.
Feel I have to respond here, as a European currently back in my homecountry.
This is true, though, a lot of dealers and breeders prefer to hold their horses back a little these days so as not to overtake them.
"If you are looking for a prospect that is aged 6/7, then it has been passed over by others for a reason.
[/quote]
Completely untrue. Did you know Eric Lamaze hardly buys anything under 6 or 7 yrs old. The good ones are hardly sold at 4 or 5, but are held until 6 or 7. Hickstead was bought when he was 7 I think.
"We look at 4/5 year olds. Recently we were told for a 1.45 prospect, it would cost 80k-100k for a 4 year old to give you an idea of prices. "
I wonder who told you that. You could have bought Hickstead for under 20k when he was 4. Though, probably it would cost about 80-100k for Americans to buy such quality horses.
I see many horses sold to either America, Canada or the Emirates that are marked up in such ways that I consider it to be unethical. If the owner gets only 50k, is it really ethical to put another 50k in commission on top of that? I don’t think so. The problem Americans have, when coming to Europe to buy horses, is that everyone is trying to squeeze the most out of them. I wonder if there would be a market to just ask a fixed price to help looking at horses and negotiating a reasonable European price. Of course, then most people would not be interested. It is hard to believe that your (general) 100+k horse is impossible to sell in Europe itself for more than 30k. A lot of the people coming to Europe to buy horses enjoy bragging that they just paid over 100k on a horse. For such people, they won’t even be interested in buying a better horse for 30k or 40k.
As I have been on the other side of the equitation (paying way too much because of my background) I want to make readers aware that a lot of horses should be cheaper than they would be in America. If they are not, you are paying too much.
To me, 80k to a 100k euros for a 4-year old that will top at 1.45m is overpaying and stuffing pockets that need not be stuffed.
There should be better ways of going about buying horses in Europe then.
Interesting post. As I understand it, a lot of things are different.
For instance, we americans/canadians lease horses, and for a lot of money too!
Europeans don’t really lease.
Appreciate the different perspective.
It is hard to say how much people are gauged, when comparatively they still seem like a deal compared to back home.
In our experience, I understand the 100k price range is a tough range to buy.
It is so much money, but in the horse world, it is very easy to lose perspective.
[QUOTE=Arrie;5259270]
\
To me, 80k to a 100k euros for a 4-year old that will top at 1.45m is overpaying and stuffing pockets that need not be stuffed.
There should be better ways of going about buying horses in Europe then.[/QUOTE]
Also I am talking dollars, not euros. That is quite the difference.
Ah yes, dollars vs. euros does make a difference.
Regarding gauging, I think you are right that it is so easy to loose perspective that paying too much doesn’t really matter anymore; especially when it is still cheaper than buying at home.
I am wondering about something. When you go and watch horses with your people, do you pay them or do the horse-owners pay them?
What do you think of my idea though? Asking a fixed price and not charging any commission for showing horses to Americans.
[QUOTE=Arrie;5260113]
What do you think of my idea though? Asking a fixed price and not charging any commission for showing horses to Americans.[/QUOTE]
Would you still charge if the horses shown didn’t make it?
How would you decide your “fixed price”? a % of buyer’s budget? a per day sum? else?
Well, Poof, my message went into cyberspace.
Let’s try again.
Those are good questions and I haven’t really discovered the answers to them yet.
If the horses shown did not make the cut, one can look at it from 2 directions:
- My risk, so nothing need to be paid.
- Hours put in can be paid.
Now, how would you then determine how much more you can ask if the horses would actually have been sold? Which directly answers your second question.
I think it should be possible to work out a way in which you can ask a percentage or amount that is directly related to the amount of money you save your clients. However, who determines what price they would have had to pay somewhere else? What do you think?
Of course, mostly if people give you a budget, they expect to pay around that price. They might even be offended if you show them horses that cost less than half their budget (even when they are better than what they would get somewhere else for more than double the price–as that is often what is put on top for foreigners).
Off to ride now, but I will think about this some more. Let me know what you think.
We have imported 3, you can see their pictures on our webshots in my sig line.
They all have passports, had great experience with each agent on the deal, love all three, didn’t pay too much.
Each differnt experience levels, one was older 8 yrs old, done jumper shows in Europe, one was 4 years old, 30 days under saddle, last one was 5 yrs old, with a year of dressage training, some jumping I’m told.
All went to JFK, then trailer home.
Although this is off topic, I noticed that someone said horses don’t need a passport to travel. If this is true, why do so many people have their horse passported? We were going to get my jumper done so I could show her in Canada in the fall (from the states), but now I’m not sure if I have to. Anyone?
[QUOTE=bigeqxo;5260750]
Although this is off topic, I noticed that someone said horses don’t need a passport to travel. If this is true, why do so many people have their horse passported? We were going to get my jumper done so I could show her in Canada in the fall (from the states), but now I’m not sure if I have to. Anyone?[/QUOTE]
Horses in canada are required to have a passport as a means of tracking them and they are needed for A circuit (Gold level) shows.
Basically you just put who has owned them, their markings are drawn on, a photo is attached and a measurement is put in if applicable. Shows are recorded in there aswell. The passport is supposed to follow the horse (mind you that doesn’t always happen, I have a few of my old horses passports that the owners simply did not want). Also you must give it to the show office when you get to a show in order to be able to compete.
However there have been rumors that they are doing away with the passport system? And switching to a way similar to how USEF does it. But I am not sure.
I think if you want to show in canada you can use whatever system USEF has and it is recognized.
I know this is very frank but when you say “top dollars” and “upper level prospect” what do you mean exactly. Everyone in this thread are very exact when it comes to import costs but I can´t see anyone that gives even a ballpark when it comes to the price for a let´s say a 1,40 horse suitable for a junior rider, would 40-45 K USD be TopDollar? And is 1,40 “upper level”?? I´m just curious since a friend of mine shocked me a few years ago telling me that her husbands friend bought a Equitation horse for his 14 yr daughter at 200 K USD. Sometimes I think we’re on different planets when it comes to TopDollars…
It´s not THAT bad… but one has to realize that the horseworld in Europe (and especially Northern Europe) is definitely more “Mr Jones” than in the US. You do not need an “upper level income” to be able to show upper level. Which in turns mean that IF something happens, yes, then the horse goes.
REALLY interested if anyone will give up any numbers when it comes to what the horses are priced at in the US and what you´re expecting to pay in Europe… hope noone get´s offended…it is certainly not what I meant…
Yikes…TOTALLY agree!! Come to Sweden and I will find you horses with showrecords of multiple winnings/placings at that level. COMPLETELY healthy… the more I think about it the more certain I get I should do a careerchange…
Why does everyone only talk about going to Belgium/Holland/Germany by the way? There´s loads of nice youngsters in Sweden/Denmark easily accessible by Copenhagen Airport? A bit of a joke but… we sell them to Hendrix and the other guys and they sell them to you for triple that money…
[QUOTE=LucyShow;5260959]
I know this is very frank but when you say “top dollars” and “upper level prospect” what do you mean exactly. Everyone in this thread are very exact when it comes to import costs but I can´t see anyone that gives even a ballpark when it comes to the price for a let´s say a 1,40 horse suitable for a junior rider, would 40-45 K USD be TopDollar? And is 1,40 “upper level”?? I´m just curious since a friend of mine shocked me a few years ago telling me that her husbands friend bought a Equitation horse for his 14 yr daughter at 200 K USD. Sometimes I think we’re on different planets when it comes to TopDollars…
It´s not THAT bad… but one has to realize that the horseworld in Europe (and especially Northern Europe) is definitely more “Mr Jones” than in the US. You do not need an “upper level income” to be able to show upper level. Which in turns mean that IF something happens, yes, then the horse goes.
REALLY interested if anyone will give up any numbers when it comes to what the horses are priced at in the US and what you´re expecting to pay in Europe… hope noone get´s offended…it is certainly not what I meant…[/QUOTE]
If you are looking at big barns where they have several horses for sale, and they run a breeding operation for a horse that will be a junior ride in the 1.40m with show experience from what I have seen will cost around $80,000 +++++ depending on a multitude of factors (rideability, ability to go to the grandprix heights, etc.). You can find them for cheaper though, however it is all about how hard you want to look. If you want to go with a dealer then yes you will be going the easy route and getting a horse that has likely been marked up quite a bit. Once they hear you are American or Canadian, you can be sure the price tag just went up. However if you can go with some one you know who can take you to the smaller barns with 1-4 horses only then you get the real steals.
here you go, this website actually states prices on these horses:
http://www.equine-agents.com/index.html
They are based out of the czech republic.
Yeah, you can think 1.45m horses that have placed (assuming that is their top) for a lot less than 100k in dollars. Why buy a 4-5 yr. for that money who will top at that level?
Why does everyone only talk about going to Belgium/Holland/Germany by the way? There´s loads of nice youngsters in Sweden/Denmark easily accessible by Copenhagen Airport? A bit of a joke but… we sell them to Hendrix and the other guys and they sell them to you for triple that money…
Yeah, but the Dutch and Belgians do have the leading studbooks for a few years now. 
Your last sentence is spot-on though. Though, they have the clients and most people who sell their horses to them, don’t. There are only very few people in the world who can sell horses for the real top-dollar money.
A horse is worth what a person is willing to pay for it… But the first thing about importing from Europe is that it is similar to buying the US. By that I mean, the entire gammit of buyers from a pro or owner looking to invest in a grand prix horse or prospect to the person looking for a solid citizen to foxhunt. In the same vein you have several different countries marketing the horses differently - and that can change from buyer to buyer. I know of an event rider (USET) who started importing horses from Bulgaria instead of Ireland because of prices. I think one of the differences is that Europe seems to put more emphasis on breeding/bloodlines than here in the US. For instance, when I go to Ireland and discuss horses the first thing I hear might be "ah I’ve a lovely 4 y/o horse by Flagmount Diamond out of a Clover Hill mare…which is supposed to let me know that horse is breed for jumping and chances are has a nice disposition… Then they might get around to telling me about it’s what it’s done… better yet, I get to ride the thing all over the countryside and make up my mind…
So I’ve made up my mind - discuss price 4 y/o w/decent breeding… I’ve got no aspirations to do grand prix but would like to have a nice jumper to do the Adults on… and in the winter months - foxhunt… Which is why I want Irish…Price is decent. passes the vet… time to ship. Seller is arranging shipping for me… no sweat, I just arrange for the trip from NY to MD… I hear that horses are in quarantine for 48 hours (geldings)longer for mares/stallions. Horse goes from Galway to Dublin by van, Dublin to Holland by air, probably stays overnight in Holland then off to USA… Receiving agent in US calls to report horse has arrived in good shape, a bit of a scrape on his nose but that’s it. He’ll call me when he’s on the road.which will be as soon as lab work comes back. Horse spent less than 24 hours in quarantine… arrives in MD at 12:00 midnight… a bit weary and dehydrated from his trip.
I doubt any horses are Shipped anymore except I do know that some go by ferry from Ireland to UK, and according to my horse pal over there the trip on the ferry is harder on the horses than flying… I was also told not to waste my money on fancy shipping boots or coolers as they are confiscated upon arrival (this may have changed and might depend on the average Joe’s horse vs. Presley Boy w/ his 8 mil price tag:)
Since I’ve never imported before and friends mentioned all their imports got sick, I discussed this w/ my vet. Went over his feed (Barley in Ire) his vaccines etc… Vet advised we let him chill out for about 2-3 weeks and I planned to purchase in the Spring so the poor thing wouldn’t hit the US soil in 95 degrees and 95% humidity… He did great, never got sick, no cough etc.
So that was my experience. I spent about 20K total and have a wonderful equine partner that I’ve shown hunters, jumpers, evented and a bit of dressage, and a brief stint side-saddle.
Thanks…Now I REALLY think you should persuade you parents to come to Denmark/Sweden… for example I know a stallion 7 yo that already won 1,45 this summer and also has been to Zangersheide and is a 1,50 + horse for that money…Bring your coach and skip the agents… and you will get a really nice horse for less than half what youre talking about…or an even better horse for the same money… I won´t tell you´re american 
Thanks for showing up Arrie!! Wow I think I’m going to go shack up with our old family friends back in our old home town in Bad Kissingen and get into the import business. Are people really not aware they are getting robbed blind by agents etc. or do they not care and rather like the status that comes with saying they paid X amount of dollars for their imports? I wish I had that money to waste.
