Improving a horses front end

[ToTheNines]

One of my trainers suggested a 9’ placing pole for one of mine. I have him at home, so I set a pole to a very low vertical. I do it quite a lot, with a no big deal attitude (as in just canter up and over and sit still, looking at top rail of jump not at pole on ground). Last lesson, he jumped better than he ever has. He is a 2’6" horse, but there is no reason they can’t look nice at that height if that is their level.

After reading these posts, I am going to change it to a placing pole to a steep X. Simple exercise, but it has sure helped him.

[DarkBayHunter]

[QUOTE=Jhorne89;7275133]
On another note… Any tips to help the jumping ahead issue? I was thinking lots of no-stirrup work, X-rails with no stirrups…[/QUOTE]

For me its a simple thought process… I get in two point and I absolutely don’t move. It’s that concept of letting the horse jump underneath you. Suddenly jumps feel a lot smaller when you are not trying to jump them yourself.

[GoodTimes]

At this point I wouldn’t be raising the jumps much. In almost every picture you posted she is deep to the base and her front end splits. When they’re small she can get out of the way, if you put them up she might get tangled. Like I said before, gymnastics, 9’ landing and takeoff rails, and lots of working on yourself.

I would do lots of no stirrup and two point work on the flat to solidify your leg, and when you’re jumping try holding your shoulder back. Let the horse jump up to you. Use takeoff rails so that she doesn’t get in deep, or trot to the jumps. Until you really have this down you may revert back to old habits when you get a funky distance.

[Spud_amp_Saf]

Just a suggestion for an exercise to help steady your leg - alternate between 10 steps each of rising trot, 2 point and sitting trot - don’t allow your leg to move in between each of the positions. Helps to develop a nice steady leg without too much pain.

For exercises for the horse - I would say stick to simple gymnastics for now. A nice one is trot poles (3 spaced at 4’6") then 9’ to X then 18’ to vertical then 21’ to oxer.

Also, 9’ - 10’ rails before and after the jump will help teach her to apex properly and that will go a long ways to assisting the front end.

In my opinion, plain singles are not necessarily the best exercise for a green horse over fences, especially if the rider isn’t confident or doesn’t have a great eye.

If you use thoughtfully placed poles and gymnastics, the exercise teaches the horse and you can worry about you.

[french_fry]

I’m going to say it: we are (mostly) asking for miracle when we set up an 18 inch or 2 foot (or even 2’6) vertical and expect to see square knees - or even a perfect distance. There are just so many to pick from at that height! (Related: my utter ineptitude cantering ground poles.) Far be it from me to be that person bemoaning the dumbing down of our sport (hell, I am currently showing in the 2’6 adult eq - I am the “dumbed down” market!) but unless they’re little tiny things they are really not using themselves until 3 foot plus. (It’s so easy to type that, so difficult to remember when you’re crashing through a 2’9 oxer wondering WTF happened - but I digress :D)

Do some gymnastics, use ground poles a few strides out; focus on forward, straight, and rhythm and she will use herself more as the fences go up.

Re: you, you really don’t need to be doing much. Try just getting up in your half seat and letting the horse come up to meet you, which closes your hip angle for you. Spoiler alert: you are not going to be laying on her neck for jumps at this height! I have trouble closing my hip angle enough to present that pretty picture for the eq since my horse’s jump over 2’6 is more of a glorified canter stride so I think about pushing my butt backwards - it helps me close my hip a bit more. That said, focus on keeping your leg around her more than what you’re doing with your upper body.

[jr]

I second the exercises outlined here by many. But I wanted to also second the comments made earlier. The exercises can help, but the horses natural form often wins out over training. It’s absolutely worthwhile to work on form but recognize not all horses are going to jump knees to eyeballs or even square. Your horse is lovely and I’ll take temperament over a 10 in style any day. Best of luck with the exercises. My horse of a lifetime was a TB with unorthodox style, I’d take another in a heartbeat.

[netg]

My horse is in no way, shape or form a hunter, but in his former life he was an eventer and jumped 4’ courses without an issue, schooled advanced x-country, etc. He was ALWAYS uneven in his knees.

I bought him to do dressage, and just the dressage work - strengthening his hind end so he could push off evenly made it so he at least typically lifts his knees evenly even though he still does not stretch over the topline like a hunter, and most definitely does not move like one.

This was his first time jumping in about a year, not me riding so please don’t critique the rider - just showing that his knees wanted to come up square even though he’s still no hunter, just from strengthening behind and giving him the ability to push up evenly.
https://scontent-a-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/s720x720/382398_837082388026_1632961827_n.jpg

[DarkBayHunter]

[QUOTE=french fry;7275382]
I’m going to say it: we are (mostly) asking for miracle when we set up an 18 inch or 2 foot (or even 2’6) vertical and expect to see square knees - or even a perfect distance. There are just so many to pick from at that height[/QUOTE]

I agree totally. If I saw a horse jump in perfect form over something so small I’d be concerned that it either lacks scope or it’s going to be too careful and perhaps have a stop in it.

I also second that finding the perfect distance to little jumps is so much harder than a larger jump that’s up in front of you. So many choices that are “ok” at small jumps.

@jr;7275419

I second the exercises outlined here by many. But I wanted to also second the comments made earlier. The exercises can help, but the horses natural form often wins out over training. It’s absolutely worthwhile to work on form but recognize not all horses are going to jump knees to eyeballs or even square. Your horse is lovely and I’ll take temperament over a 10 in style any day. Best of luck with the exercises. My horse of a lifetime was a TB with unorthodox style, I’d take another in a heartbeat.

So true not to expect Inclusive’s jump (I wish) however I’d also like to say that I’ve found young horses become more consistent and their jump improves with mileage. They learn where their body parts are and how to compensate for deep distances, etc. You just want them to have the right instincts and the OP’s horse does. She doesn’t jump over her shoulder and doesn’t jump up with her body and hang her legs… that’s good.

As far as exercises, I love the simple 9ft take off rail and even a landing rail or guide rails lying flat on the ground but I’m not a fan of the super steep cross rail or guide rails up on the jump. Just a personal choice. I never like to worry my horses and I’ve seen this worry some horses.

[peanut_butter]

[QUOTE=ToTheNines;7275265]
One of my trainers suggested a 9’ placing pole for one of mine. .[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with the placing pole. As for riding ahead I’d keep the jumps small and think “Dont throw my body over fences and knock my horse off balance, let my horse rise over the jump and come to me”. More crest release, less full blown 1.5m jumper position.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Jhorne89;7275057]
https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1424467_10202826853416549_1608824480_n.jpg

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https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/521321_10201076433977157_1387324931_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564679_10201076428657024_237496040_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/480635_10200960671403165_2014663954_n.jpg

Hopefully all those work.[/QUOTE]

i am going to be different----------- nothing wrong with your horse shes saving you and trying , good mare to , as she so good shes interpretating what your asking as in helping you , do the jump totally honest mare and no she wouldnt ditch you either - a horse with half her brain would have done ages ago

look at your pictures------------------ no contact very loose reins

2--------------- your not settling her up for the jumps at all in fact you rnot helping her one bit

you need to learn to see your stride, and help set her up for the jump you need to learn your half halt stride so you ca check her back and hold her

you need to start of with poles on the ground and then build up to small grids then small course cant jump big till you learnt how to do it small

one jump doesn’t do it, one jumper as in x/c or hunting , every so often doesn’t do it as in a jumping competition you have a course of jumps so you must learn to release pick up and be ready for the next one you must learn to look
for the fence and the stride -

and try to keep your head to one side of her head so that when the horse goes higher, its not going to smack you one in the face, we always move our heads to one side of the horse when jumping this allows the horse full movement of his
and we are not restricting him in anyways

you learnwhen you look at your own pictures and self crique ------- there a lots on mistake that you can improve on and its not the horse

in other word pick up your contact sit in and push

[GoodTimes]

@goeslikestink;7275926

and try to keep your head to one side of her head so that when the horse goes higher, its not going to smack you one in the face, we always move our heads to one side of the horse when jumping this allows the horse full movement of his
and we are not restricting him in anyways

OP please do not listen to this! This advice disgusts me. Goeslikestink apparently does not understand the physics of a jumping horse and rider, and would rather emulate a style. You will never see a big eq rider ducking because it in no way helps the horse. Instead, you not only weight the front end but you do it substantially on one side. Sure some of the top hunter/jumper riders do it, but they are on 10+++ jumpers who can compensate for this. Were you to do this on your little mare she would probably go WTF?!?!

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=GoodTimes;7276178]
OP please do not listen to this! This advice disgusts me. Goeslikestink apparently does not understand the physics of a jumping horse and rider, and would rather emulate a style. You will never see a big eq rider ducking because it in no way helps the horse. Instead, you not only weight the front end but you do it substantially on one side. Sure some of the top hunter/jumper riders do it, but they are on 10+++ jumpers who can compensate for this. Were you to do this on your little mare she would probably go WTF?!?![/QUOTE]

i surggest you look at all photos of top proffessions jumping as you will find when they are in the air there head is turned in the direction of the next jump thus being out of the way of the horse , neck/ head so as soon as they land they pick the horse up and are on the stride for that jump

its nothing to do with weight, its turning your head out of the way but when starting to jump we always say move your head away from his and look where your going

[xSelleFrancaisx]

[QUOTE=goeslikestink;7276429]
i surggest you look at all photos of top proffessions jumping as you will find when they are in the air there head is turned in the direction of the next jump thus being out of the way of the horse , neck/ head so as soon as they land they pick the horse up and are on the stride for that jump

its nothing to do with weight, its turning your head out of the way but when starting to jump we always say move your head away from his and look where your going[/QUOTE]

but her face is nowhere near the neck, so why would you even suggest that in the first place? And even if it was, tilting your head to the side, or back, or however else you think of it, is not the correct solution. It sounds ridiculous…

Also I’m not really sure what “International grade A and B” have to do with anything, let alone bad advice…

[kmwines01]

Here’s my former guy. He was never the scopiest but his jumping style definitely improved as he go more comfortable/familiar as he jumped more.

At 2’6" my first year with him (i think he was 5 or 6)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=649814239911&l=fe135c8195

At 3’0"-3’3" in our last year together (he was 8 or 9)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=649814259871&l=67d0d928b2

He still was never an amazing jumper he definitely evened up in the front end. My jumping ahead never helped, lol.

[jr]

[QUOTE=goeslikestink;7276429]
i surggest you look at all photos of top proffessions jumping as you will find when they are in the air there head is turned in the direction of the next jump thus being out of the way of the horse , neck/ head so as soon as they land they pick the horse up and are on the stride for that jump

its nothing to do with weight, its turning your head out of the way but when starting to jump we always say move your head away from his and look where your going[/QUOTE]

Really not sure what this even has to do with the topic at hand. If I’m working on a horses form, one thing I’m going to concentrate on is straightness. I’m going to make sure they are square off the ground and landing straight to a jump set Ina straight line. A great way to teach a horse to jump unevenly is to exaggerate looking at the next fence and turning in the air. It can interrupt the arc with a green horse.

[GoodTimes]

[QUOTE=jr;7276511]
Really not sure what this even has to do with the topic at hand. If I’m working on a horses form, one thing I’m going to concentrate on is straightness. I’m going to make sure they are square off the ground and landing straight to a jump set Ina straight line. A great way to teach a horse to jump unevenly is to exaggerate looking at the next fence and turning in the air. It can interrupt the arc with a green horse.[/QUOTE]

This now has to do with the topic at hand because Goeslikestink is suggesting to the OP that she do something which could potentially unbalance her horse. By ducking or leaning to one side you are not straight, thus your horse will not be straight, and unless it has the experience and strength to compensate it will not jump up and square.

Turning ones head to look for the next jump is important, but you don’t do it to keep yourself from being smacked in the face. Even over a 1.50 jump you should be in balance enough that you can keep your shoulders away and avoid this.

http://horsetalk.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cylana-reed-kessler.jpg

Here’s Reed Kessler, balanced a top her horse, looking for her next fence, not ducking, and nowhere near getting smacked in the face.