From what I understand, and this is taken from the Mary Wanless podcast, is that some riders are naturally gifted to know how and when to engage. They do it naturally, it is not a thought for them. Other riders who are not so lucky, have to work to learn how to do it.
So it is possible you are one of the people who can naturally engage and bear down, without thought. Lucky you!
I had a lesson yesterday and I think we are making progress. My coach was really happy with how relaxed and supple she was and also that she has gained muscle and bulk. I think we are on the right track. Very excited for our big show next weekend. Only one more week to get stronger in that sitting trot until it’s judgement day. LOL
I know this gait. My warmblood mare is a wannabe Standardbred. She can trot at the speed of a hand gallop, barely patting the ground, but there is no way in hell to sit it. It’s fun to stand and hover with all the legs going though!
That said, it is truly like a completely different gait that most horses don’t have. It is nothing at all like a proper extended trot and it’s not just a very fast trot. It’s a whole different gear. I suspect it’s a four beat gait - Diagonal Advanced Placement to the max.
It is most spectacular when she does it out in the field when the other mares are having a canter/gallop. They’re all running hard and she’s all “pat pat pat” and covering just as much if not more ground. But, it ain’t no dressage trot, that’s for absolute sure.
And yes, for those who have read this far and are wondering, it has absolutely been a disadvantage in developing her extended trot. Sigh. Also, yes, I’m an idiot because I do still occasionally allow her to do it under saddle … because it’s fun and we’re not going to the Olympics any time soon, and she’s MY horse so I don’t have anyone to answer to but myself
The first half of this video shows a trotter at speed in proper racing gait which is I’m pretty sure what I get and why it’s hard enough to stand in the stirrups let alone post or sit. Forgot to mention that, there is also no posting - there’s nothing to post to because it’s so weird. The second half seems to be what happens when they are on the verge of ‘breaking’ to the canter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_gFCz6xxOo
What sort of level are your horses at? If you are talking about a First or Second Level type trot, no you aren’t going need the kind of strength we’re talking about with an FEI horse. Maybe you could post some video of yourself sitting the trot so we can see what you’re talking about.
My coach used to tell me, “If your abs aren’t on fire and you don’t feel like throwing up when you finish, you’re not doing it right.” Lol. The difference in the strength I needed to do Second versus Training was really eye opening to me at first. I truly had no idea just how different the gaits are to ride at each level. And Third is a whole new ballgame again. My horse has shown to PSG in the past, so Third is his “stepping down” level, and he thinks it’s a walk in the park. For me it’s a marathon.
it’s actually a pace, a two beat lateral gait that he does. He has a trot, not a lovely trot, but still a trot, and he has a four beat walk (most of the time, but not always). He’s Good to Look At, but once he moves he’s …well, a dork. Dressage lessons are not his end-game, this is just to put some nice bit work in him prior to hitching. I started ground driving him, but wasn’t able to keep up enough to get where i needed to go, so i’m riding him into his bit, THEN we’ll harness and hitch. He still gets harness work at the walk (slow walk lol- because i’m ground driving). Meanwhile, i’ve learned to sit his weird pace because posting throws off his balance. It is strange and i’m so glad to have the opportunity to learn something so alien, so new.
Ah, I read fast pace gait as fast-paced gait, but you actually meant a pace. D’oh! Yeah, you can’t post to a pace super successfully in my experience. Totally different experience than my horse’s “track trot” though
welllll…
i’ve been riding since i was 7. consistently, on a pretty wide variety of equines. a lot of it bareback. Now, i know you guys love to propose i have no idea what i’m talking about, because ‘levels’ and maybe you’re right, but ya gotta at least give a nod to the idea that maybe i do. I consider dressage a new language i’m learning, but it still is speech.
to answer your question
Honestly, i have no idea. We are advanced beyond training level for certain, but where she excels, (mostly anything to do with flexibility)… we are at??? i have not looked at the tests, so the exercises we are doing I would guess are rather a patchwork quilt of ‘levels’. Her turn on the haunches is no joke and is tightening into almost a pirouette, at a walk Her reinback is steady and fluid. Her halt, stay is good just about anywhere i ask for it in our training arena. She has two distinct trots, though her slowest, collected one has good rhythm, her bigger trot seems a bit forward at this point…to me. My coach just says it has impulsion. I have no idea what any of this is in levels. We are working on collection up and down through transitions. Last week we were doing haunches-in at a trot along the rail and also on diagonals, in her slower trot. Anything that bends or allows her to cross her legs makes her happy…so we feed her stuff like that as a treat.
Though last week we had a problem: she skittered up into her trot (by that i mean uplifted in front…almost like going into a canter depart) two times and coach suggested having her teeth checked ??? My inclination is to back off, lighten up … OR ask my coach to come up with a different ‘code word’ for when she wants me to have my mare ( t.r.o.t.
i tried it a few times, but it felt like he was going to tip over!
still is very green though, and immature. Maybe still chest-narrow. (i only ride him once a week…and maybe for a total of an hour in usually three 15min increments)
LOL…track trot! gotta luv em
Does she not want to canter? Or is just looking for the right spot to start?
She happily canters and gallops, but her favourite gait is the track trot so we used it for conditioning (place I used to board at had a half mile training track) and as a treat after collected work/brain work.
I found out just how fast she was when out on the track one day trotting with a much longer-legged, bigger horse. We let the horses go more forward on the back stretch. The other horse had to hand gallop after a while because she couldn’t keep up to my horse’s big trot. We nearly fell off laughing so hard. After that I got used to rating her when out with other horses if they didn’t feel like having a little gallop, or their horses needed an ego boost, “Don’t tell your horse that she hasn’t even come close to top speed yet, we’ll let him think he’s capable of winning this ‘race.’” So much fun.
I do not want to curb your enthusiasm, which I really admire and wish more riders had. Be aware that many horses will pace when they do not want, or know how to, use their hind ends. I have seen it most often in backyard kid’s horses.
Also, and you do not have to take this advice: With green horses I feel it is much more important to work on 3 speeds of the trot, rather than any sort of collection at all. And as noted above, one must, must canter to strengthen the horse, and develop balance for eventual collection. Just my two cents, adjusted for inflation.
It’s a Standardbred. If it’s pacing bred (as opposed to trotting bred), the pace is a natural gait for it. It’s not a walk or trot gone bad, it’s a whole different ball of wax.
This was with a Paso Fino mare who was VERY pacey. When I felt her back going from side to side between my thighs I sort of blocked the sideways movement with my alternating upper thighs which would get her back into her 4-beat gait (I only saw this mare trot ONCE, in the pasture, she was committed to pacing.)
I know your horse is different, but this may work for you as an aid that you do not want a pace when you ride your horse. It worked best for me when I used it as an aid when she started pacing, if she got fully into a pace it took a lot more work to get her back to her “normal” gait. I do know that she tended to fall into a pace a lot less over a few months when I used this aid, it took a while but she ended up accepting it as a blocking aid to her pacing and I had to use it less and less.
Mare that is actually in dressage training, working on collection, is not the greenbean. She’s been in training for about a year and a half now. Greenie is a goonie young standie. He is actually destined to drive, but for now, he’s learning the finer points of how to respond to a bit. Which for him, is currently a mullen…fwiw
I actually want him to pace. It’s his nature. My job is to learn how to deal with it right now (under saddle). Once he gets in front of a cart it will be fine. The only way i know how to get a horse really good driving is by riding. I thought about sending him off to train but I sent a couple of Morgans off for ‘drivers ed’ and kinda always regretted it…and, well, decided that it might be fun to learn this oddity under saddle.
OK with all due respect you are nowhere near a schooled extended or even medium lengthened trot. That’s perfectly natural. Neither gait really exists outside of dressage, and you only start in on mediums after you are doing true collection. In the competition progession that would start at schooling Second Level.
There are different distinct aspects to dressage. One is “movements.” Lateral, rein back, pirouette, spin, etc. As we can see from looking at for instance reining and working ranch horses, a horse can do the fundamentals of all these moves without advanced dressage carriage or training.
Another distinct aspect is training the horse to collect, and then extend. Extension is essentially getting the horse to give a big long step while still in the body posture of being collected. A talented dressage horse can get a huge step. A balanced extended trot has lifted back, lifted neck and withers and equal size steps front and back.
You dont do this is in any other discipline. Western just doesn’t accomodste a big trot. Jumpers and hunters have working trot but it is the horses natural trot gait.
Medium and extended trot are highly educated trots, that take time to build. Dressage competition requires you sit them, but you can certainly school posting for green horse green rider or to save your back.
No other discipline expects you to sit anything beyond a jog or jumper sitting trot.
All horses naturally have multiple trot speeds. They can do a slow jog trot Western style, a jumper sitting trot or working trot, and a racing trot, and all variations between. That is totally normal and average for any healthy horse.
A very hyped up horse at liberty may also display collected trot and passage. Some horses naturally do an extended trot at liberty. But they still need years of correct schooling to produce any of this correctly on cue under saddle in a situation where they are relaxed and responsive, not having a big whoop and run in the pasture.
The educated extended trot on any given horse is easier to sit than the raw racing trot of the same speed on that horse. But the selection of giant WBs with huge gaits (natural trot talent) for dressage also means that many dedicated dressage horses take much more strength and balance to ride than more modest horses. Riders switching to a big WB often have to work at even feeling comfortably posting the working trot, let alone sitting the extended.
Sitting a jog trot or collected trot is nothing. It’s easy. Western riders jog along all day on the range. Whrn we talk about issues sitting trot we mean medium to extended.
You mention your mares working trot feels fast. The extended trot is something amazing. It’s like trot in overdrive. You can feel like you aren’t even touching the ground. It can feel out of control even when you know it’s entirely controlled. And I’ve only really done it on an Iberian horse. I can only extrapolate what it feels like on a 17 hand warmblood. I would expect it feels glorious if you can finally really sit it and let go.
So, no. Your horse is not giving you educated extended trot because you would have gone through a long process to get there. And you would not be exposed to true educated extended trot in other disciplines.
When I bought her both front legs were “coming out of the same hole.” She is still narrow in front, but no longer looks like she was put together with a wedge and a sledge. With proper dressage work, the space between her front legs has widened from “can’t even get a single hand in there” to normal for the width of her shoulders.
Behind she is wide and slightly cow hocked - not an advantage to dressage as it can make them look weak if a judge is more focused on footfalls that quality of work, but I have no idea if it’s a speed advantage.
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You can somewhat replicate that ‘jet taking off’ feeling in a Training Level horse by trotting appropriately spaced raised cavalletti. (It is very tiring for the horse, be prudent.)
Her reinback is steady and fluid. Her halt, stay is good just about anywhere i ask for it in our training arena. She has two distinct trots, though her slowest, collected one has good rhythm, her bigger trot seems a bit forward at this point…to me. My coach just says it has impulsion. I have no idea what any of this is in levels. We are working on collection up and down through transitions. Last week we were doing haunches-in at a trot along the rail and also on diagonals, in her slower trot. Anything that bends or allows her to cross her legs makes her happy…so we feed her stuff like that as a treat.