Improving Sitting Trot Question

If I misunderstood you I apologize.

to me it sounded like you doubted @eightpondfarm because you thought she had not enough knowledge about dressage to describe how to do sitting trot…. And I simply wanted to point out that sitting trot has nothing to do with a huge knowledge about dressage but only with feeling how to adjust to the horse and keeping your body together…. Even collecting has nothing really to do with a huge amount of fitness if you are able to align with your horses movement…. I am sure that it helps to know what is behind all these things you feel while riding and in order to ride a beautiful test (doesn’t matter what level) you should know how it all goes together but if you simply want to go around the arena and adjust the tempo once in a while and sit the trot and feel a nice and loose horse, you don’t need any knowledge about dressage……

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In my experience only -

When I was a very fit eventer and jumper rider who decided to get serious about my dressage education, it took 1.) a lot of lunge line lessons on a big moving school master which then required me to have 2.) chiropractic and 3.) massage in between the lunge line lessons so I could walk, function and get to the next lesson.

So my opinion is, until you’ve actually attempted to sit a real working trot, or dog forbid, extended trot (extended, which is different than lengthened) you have no idea of the level of fitness and core strength it takes. Balance is CERTAINLY not enough.

To this day, I retain the muscle memory of how to sit a big trot, but I absolutely lack the fitness and the suppleness to do it for more than a few strides.

Some people may learn easier than I did, because I had to unlearn some bad habits from lots of time galloping in two point.

A “road” trot, which is a highly efficient, ground covering forward trot, favored by distance riders and foxhunters is also a gait that you need some experience to ride, but it is absolutely nothing like a good working, medium or dog forbid, true extended trot.

Some other nits to pick:

Lateral work means you have a broke horse, not a dressage horse. Lots of horses in lots of disciplines rein back, leg yield, turn on the forehand/haunches and shoulder in. That’s being a broke horse. And a pre-training level dressage prospect should be able to do them, just not in a 2nd level frame and balance with the beginnings of collection.

This is the purpose of 2nd Level: To confirm that the horse demonstrates correct basics,
and having achieved the thrust required in First Level, now accepts more weight on the hindquarters (collection); moves with an uphill tendency, especially in the medium
gaits; and is reliably on the bit. A greater degree of straightness, bending, suppleness, throughness, balance and self-carriage is required than at First Level.

You can school 2nd Level movements in a Training or Intro Level frame. That doesn’t mean your horse is a 2nd Level horse.

“Collection” has two senses or meanings. Many disciplines use “collection” to either mean a slower, shortened gait OR a horse that’s moving correctly from its hind end and through its back. Dressage riders and theory pedants like me refer to a horse that’s moving correctly and through its back as “through”, “connected” or “on the aids” and reserve “collection” for gaits that are both shortened and have more impulsion, created through the increased flexion of the joints of the hind end and the uphill balance. That is, sustained collected work as required at second level.

Casual instructors throwing around the word “collection” make me skeptical and nervous. And prone to quote the Princess Bride: “You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.”

If a hunter trainer tells riders to do a “collected sitting trot” I wince; but I know what they mean. If someone who claims to be a dressage rider/trainer talks about working on “collection” before the horse is reliably on the aids, I have some serious doubts.

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This is a very interesting discussion and somehow the words of a former instructor (rode in the past up to GP ) come to my mind…. He was the head instructor for the clinics in the state stud and he held education classes for the German young professionals as well so he is extremly well educated about the theory of dressage…

For him every lesson started with loosening up the horse without collecting it. The next step was actually to do simple lateral work and he always demanded from the riders (very different levels) to feel during this lateral work how the horse got slower and more engaged because this was the first step towards collection….

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@Jealoushe,

I watched your videos, and this is my .02 -

(Please bear in mind that I could probably not ride these tests as well as you have.)

The canter work is better than the trot work in terms of your position and following seat, but in both, to me, you look a little tight in the knee and thigh. (I am familiar with that problem in my own journey.)

Watch the video and see how much your ankle opens and closes as you sit, and how little your knee does. I would like to see you take your knee and thigh OFF the saddle and concentrate on absorbing the motion more in the seatbones. The motion in all three joints of your leg should be roughly the same.

A couple of things that helped me: Watching a horse that was a big mover on the lunge line, and really studying how the back muscles moved. That is what helped me grasp combining the side to side following with the forward and back following motion. Someone else described as an elliptical movement, which wouldn’t have made sense to me until I studied the horse’s back movement. An instructor once described it as “peddling a bicycle backwards” and that kinda worked for me, but again, I had to put it together with how the back moved.

Ride with one stirrup. Pay attention to how much better the seat bone without the stirrup behaves. Switch back and forth. (I find this much more useful than riding without stirrups. We all know we sit better without stirrups, the trick is to apply what we feel w/o stirrups to riding with stirrups.)

Then, on a lunge line, without stirrups, pull one leg completely off the horse’s side from the hip down. The seat bone on that side will miraculously deepen and follow correctly. Switch sides, and then see if you can replicate the feeling with stirrups.

Put a short stick or bat directly under both seatbones and sit the trot, first little, then big. Pay attention to when you lose contact with the stick and it moves. It’s very instructive. In my case I found that I was a little short of the range of motion I needed; I was following the horse’s motion, but my seatbones stopped before the horse’s motion stopped.

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Very nice .02. I was taught the backpedalling feeling as well. Worked very well for me because I biked to and from work, the barn and home. I would do it with no handlebars and of course at speed.

As for pulling the leg off the horse’s side. At my barn we call that the turkey testing exercise, if I am picturing the same stretch. Pull your thigh off your hip and outwards, as if testing to see if the turkey drumstick is done. It is murder at first but incredibly effective at loosening you up and lengthening your leg. I realize this may not be the same exercise you use.)

If one really wants to test one’s balance, and relaxation, return to the glory of pony club days and while cantering on the lunge, click your heels together!

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I will for evermore refer to that as the turkey testing exercise! ROFL!

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Me too ha ha. I would like to see it in regular time and not slow mo to see if we can see that still!

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I do the leg off exercise at the start of every ride and usually again half way through. I always do all my walk work without stirrups to start also to help stretch and lengthen my leg and sit deeper.

I really think for me it boils down to not being strong enough and being able to be loose enough at the same time. My go to has always been hands so trying to not use those and do all that at the same time is quite the learning curve ahah

Thank you for your insight!

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What about trying a franklin ball under your seat for a couple minutes during each ride? The dumbbell shaped ones - filled with air (softer) or water (harder) - go under your seat bones and you have no choice but to relax your seat and follow the movement. My instructor incorporates this in some of my lessons because I’ve had a lot of tension issues to resolve, and while I’m nowhere close to being a second level rider, she has also used franklin balls to help her upper level students learn to sit the bigger gaits.

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Wow, that’s interesting. I’ve never heard of that. Can you give more information?

I would try them if I could borrow some, but I think they are too expensive to order into Canada for how much I would use them. I also find I don’t have an issue feeling my seat bones or relaxing my seat other than in these moments of sitting trot. When I relax and then follow I get bounced out of the seat. I really think it’s a core issue mostly but still figuring that out lol

Try playing with the rhythm of your following - try something that feels wrong/out of synch and you may be surprised that it works. Or it may not, but at least you’ve tried something different rather than the same thing over and over.

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I’m not sure if your question was directed to me? If it was regarding the franklin balls, I only switched to riding with this instructor a couple months ago, so that’s unfortunately probably the extent of my knowledge and ability to explain how to use franklin balls. From my experience using them, you can’t really lock up anywhere or get stiff and they help you sit deep and relax your seat. Not every horse is tolerant of them though. You can also use the individual franklin balls (not dumbbell shaped) between your thighs and saddle to help stretch out tight hip flexors (I think - I may be butchering this).

@Jealoushe if you are interested in trying the Franklin balls and a fun way to improve your sitting trot, check out www.interactivehorsesimulator.com. Not sure exactly where you are located but if you’re on the east side of the GTA the drive might not be too bad.

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@stB.YM, Yes, it was directed to you, sorry that wasn’t clear, and yes, it was regarding the franklin balls.

@Jealoushe, I wonder if riding with something like the franklin balls or something similar (stress balls? styrofoam?) between the saddle and thigh would be a useful exercise for you? That would have been a huge help for me.

I had to do a lot of working stretching hip flexors when I was really working on sitting trot.

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I’ve seen that! I don’t think its too far but I heard its not cheap and gas is sky high right now haha

I should try it out though sometime, hopefully gas prices go down lol

I am hopeless at posting links, but if you go to YouTube and type in Amelia Newcombe Dressage sitting trot there is a really good video.
She has a woman there explaining which muscles are engaged in sitting the trot.
Amelia is even wearing a shirt that has the muscles painted on it .

I think you will find it most helpful.

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She is the best. I’ve watched all her videos many times over haha

It is really a good video.
Explaining which muscles to use is not something most instructors know about.

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I’m going to rewatch it to get a refresher! Thanks

Heres the link for anyone who wants to watch:

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