Incredible incredible horse

[chicki]

But… his way of going is reminiscent of some Arabian Park horses that I have seen. I am concerned that the very thing that turns me off in the Arabian world is becoming fashionable in the Dressage arena

See that is just wrong though. I used to show arabs…alot/nationally. Park horses are something TOTALLY different. First of all, arabian park horses move in an extremely artificial way with artifical contraptions. Arabians dont come out of the mare moving like that. On top of that, they display very little self carriage, they rarely are capable of much overtrack it any at all, and certainly not while they are being raced around the arena with their legs flailing all over the place. They are also always very hollow looking. Again, I have seen these plenty of times, I bought an old EP horse from Mike whelihan as he lived down the road from me, and I have seen plenty of them work. It’s not even comparable. The only similarity is that this horse lifts its knees up as part of its motion. Thats it.

[YoungFilly]

@class;2028526

hate to be the one to break this to you, but space shuttles actually suck. yes, they might look cool and be the ride of a life time, but there’s no trunk to carry your groceries in and they can’t even pull a horse trailer… they’re just not very good all-around vehicles.

Ugh, I hate to agree with you about the space shuttle. They need to redesign them, our old ones should never fly again IMO. And I would be the happiest girl on the planet to ride in the most modern space shuttle. Or to be able to ride a horse like this!

[Equit8tor]

Be still my heart! I wish not for the money to own him, but for the talent to ride him as he should be ridden…

[Sakura]

@chicki;2028695

But… his way of going is reminiscent of some Arabian Park horses that I have seen. I am concerned that the very thing that turns me off in the Arabian world is becoming fashionable in the Dressage arena

See that is just wrong though. I used to show arabs…alot/nationally. Park horses are something TOTALLY different. First of all, arabian park horses move in an extremely artificial way with artifical contraptions. Arabians dont come out of the mare moving like that. On top of that, they display very little self carriage, they rarely are capable of much overtrack it any at all, and certainly not while they are being raced around the arena with their legs flailing all over the place. They are also always very hollow looking. Again, I have seen these plenty of times, I bought an old EP horse from Mike whelihan as he lived down the road from me, and I have seen plenty of them work. It’s not even comparable. The only similarity is that this horse lifts its knees up as part of its motion. Thats it.

Relax… I only said it was reminicant, as in it reminded me… Don’t diss the discipline because it’s not your cup of tea. We all have a little rail bird in us.

A well trained, quality Park horse does not flail its legs all over the place. A good park horse has cadence, rhythm and balance. I know what you are talking about, I have seen the freaky ones. I had my horse with a trainer this past summer who is moving towards the sport horse arena from the Main Ring. In the Main Ring she did a lot of CEP and Park… she worked wonders with my dressage horse that my dressage trainer never could. I’m not telling you this because I think you care, but because as another learning human being you may find it interesting to know that there is more than one road to Rome.

[atr]

Lovely–and still just a gangly boy!

Oh for the chance to ride a horse of that quality–not that anyone in their right mind would let me on an animal like that.

[Dazednconfused]

[QUOTE=chicki;2028695]
But… his way of going is reminiscent of some Arabian Park horses that I have seen. I am concerned that the very thing that turns me off in the Arabian world is becoming fashionable in the Dressage arena

See that is just wrong though. I used to show arabs…alot/nationally. Park horses are something TOTALLY different. First of all, arabian park horses move in an extremely artificial way with artifical contraptions. Arabians dont come out of the mare moving like that. On top of that, they display very little self carriage, they rarely are capable of much overtrack it any at all, and certainly not while they are being raced around the arena with their legs flailing all over the place. They are also always very hollow looking. Again, I have seen these plenty of times, I bought an old EP horse from Mike whelihan as he lived down the road from me, and I have seen plenty of them work. It’s not even comparable. The only similarity is that this horse lifts its knees up as part of its motion. Thats it.[/QUOTE]

For someone that supposedly showed arabs, you’re making some very ignorant comments (although this isn’t the first time and luckily for us, not the last :rolleyes: ). There are many, MANY arabian park horses - Apollopalooza for example (RIP) comes to mind, that are not artificial or “hollow looking”. Just as with this horse - what he did was extremely easy, balanced, and effortless to him - and he came that way. I’m sure there are a few Park horses who are “made” to move that way, but guess what - they don’t last long - and they certainly aren’t the majority. I, for one, don’t appreciate such ridiculous comments and find them rather offensive in light of my own experience with english and park horses.

[kenbiki]

Wow…can you say “ELASTIC”!! loverly…

[canyonoak]

Park action is about knee and hock movement. The horses can and often do move in a balance and certainly in a rhythm. BUT they do not use their backs the same as a dressage horse.

I do not believe there is a park horse alive, whatever breed, that can extend and collect and maintain balance and rhythm, let alone show lateral suppleness and engagement in the same fashion as a well-schooled dressage horse.

And please-- that is not because one is better than the other.

It is because the two disciplines have different priorities.

An upper-level dressage canter is sort of useless for a grand prix show jumper, even more useless for an upper-level eventer. Sure, the connection is important, and the TRAINING is important, and they are all still horses–but there is a difference in the desirable balance and for that matter, the focus.

The excitement about Quaterback is not how high he is moving his knees and hocks.
The excitement is the elasticity and maintenance of balance and rhythm.

It will be even more exciting if all this does not diminish with further schooling…but the reality is–this horse can do this now.
And for this moment in time, he should just bring a smile to anyone’s face.

[chicki]

Well you can call it ignorant if you’d like to. I am simply stating what I saw year after year. Arabian horses are not saddlebreds. They were never bred to nor were they meant to run around the arena like saddlebreds. It is imitation and it looks like it. I love arabs for what they are, my parents and my grandfather bred arabs. I just don’t see any comparison other than both lift their knees high.

[canyonoak]

In no way whatsoever am I calling such a comparison (or you) ignorant.

I am simply saying that park action is about knees and hocks–as is all saddlebred style action, as is hackney action.

If the priority is looking at knees and hocks, then a dressage horse with a lot of suspension can be said to also have knee and hock action.

BUT a dressage horse is about being able to extend and collect and show lateral suppleness–that is what the training is designed to develop and show off.

In order to carry a rider and maintain this kind of movement, a dressage horse must learn to use its back and stomach and adopt acertain balance.

A park horse is asked for extravagant movement and a certain kind of ridability, but is not asked to maintain a connection for extending and collection or for lateral movements. The use of the back is very different.

that is all I am saying.

A stride has 3 components–

the horse

1. swings its hind leg under its body
2. flexes the joints
   3.pushes forweard into the next stride

a well schooled dressage horse must do all three of these.

Park horses are not asked for this kind of swing under the body and push into the next stride, and the way they use their backs would preclude their being able to do it or to maintain the desired (in the show arena) movement.

[chicki]

Canyon, I am with you on this one. I was called ignorant by dazedandconfused because I was saying essentially what you just did. They arent comparable.

[Dazednconfused]

Well, no, that’s not what you said.

arabian park horses move in an extremely artificial way

with artifical contraptions.

Arabians dont come out of the mare moving like that.
(oh really - how many regional or national level saddleseat arabians have YOU raised - include names, please, so I can look them up on the Datasource. Anyone who has ever seen a horse like Apollopalooza go can say that his way of going was exactly what was natural to him.)

they display very little self carriage

they rarely are capable of much overtrack it any at all

being raced around the arena with their legs flailing all over the place.

They are also always very hollow looking.

Reading your entire post was a series of insults and ignorant, sweeping, generalized comments from someone who thinks they know a lot about park horses - but that’s all it is - thinking they know. Not having any real-time, actual knowledge.

[Sabine]

Please don’t fight and be rude…this is such a great thread…

just found out the following information:

The rider is a state employee in Mecklenburg and that’s why he wears the uniform (it’s not a military uniform). He is also known to be a great rider.
The horse is owned by the Staatsgestuet- the District Breeding Association and noone knows at this point if they will give him to a famous dressage rider/trainer to train up- or if he’ll just stand at stud.

Ironically the Holsteiner Verband often gives really good stallions to active competitors and once they really hit the GrandPrix and start winning they call them back for breeding…(these are mostly jumpers).
Not sure they will have to do that in this case…I think there is no doubt about the natural talent, beauty and genepool in this specific case…
It would be good to know though if he has the brains and mind to be trained to GP and perform well…???

[muley1]

I would have to say that I grew up in Scottsdale, owned and showed Arabians. Lasma, Karho, Sims, Brusally ranches were a stones throw away from my house. Spent a lot of time watching the LaCroix Brothers riding and training.
I have worked at the Scottsdale All Arabian Show every year for the past 18 years, and I have yet to see a natural moving Park Horse. They are not trained to use their backs, they’re trained to move hollow with their hocks trailing. And yes, I saw the best. If you consider Bask one of the best.

I’ve also seen my share of Arabian trainers, with the rubber tubing, and all other manner of gadgets to teach that natural movement.

Absolutely loved the stallion in the video. He brought tears to my eyes.
I wonder how big he is? Does anyone know? Either the rider is very tall, or the stallion isn’t real big. At any rate, he is just about as perfect a dressage prospect as I’ve seen.

[YoungFilly]

Your so cool Sabine!

@Sabine;2029155

Please don’t fight and be rude…this is such a great thread…

just found out the following information:

The rider is a state employee in Mecklenburg and that’s why he wears the uniform (it’s not a military uniform). He is also known to be a great rider.
The horse is owned by the Staatsgestuet- the District Breeding Association and noone knows at this point if they will give him to a famous dressage rider/trainer to train up- or if he’ll just stand at stud.

Ironically the Holsteiner Verband often gives really good stallions to active competitors and once they really hit the GrandPrix and start winning they call them back for breeding…(these are mostly jumpers).
Not sure they will have to do that in this case…I think there is no doubt about the natural talent, beauty and genepool in this specific case…
It would be good to know though if he has the brains and mind to be trained to GP and perform well…???

[FoxxxyStarr]

i think i understand why not everyone is so impressed by this horse. what we have here is an incredible show Oldenburg. but he is so extreme in type and movement, that only aficionados of the modern show Warmblood type will be able to appreciate it. those of us who are involved in other breeds or types will look at the horse and see something bordering on grotesque. it is no different than those of us who go to other breed shows and fail to see the appeal of the horses in the center ring. Quaterback is no different than any top park or western pleasure horse, in that the show type is generally appreciated by the few who participate in it. he is a horse taken to extremes, and only a few people will enjoy it. granted he is a cute horse with what appears to be a good mind, so i am sure that he will make someone very happy. but these top show horses are so specialized in what they do that they look freakish to those of us who are looking in from the outside. his type only begins to look less bizarre after one has spent so much time around it that it is all they see. remember that the American park horses look perfectly normal to those who spend all their time around them. yet dressage people call it artificial, inverted, less supple and less balanced. now those of us from a different world than the elite breed shows of Europe express our shock at what is going on across the ocean. show horses who have been bred to such extremes will not be attractive to eveyone. that is just the way it is!

[Sabine]

[QUOTE=FoxxxyStarr;2029198]
i think i understand why not everyone is so impressed by this horse. what we have here is an incredible show Oldenburg. but he is so extreme in type and movement, that only aficionados of the modern show Warmblood type will be able to appreciate it. those of us who are involved in other breeds or types will look at the horse and see something bordering on grotesque. it is no different than those of us who go to other breed shows and fail to see the appeal of the horses in the center ring. Quaterback is no different than any top park or western pleasure horse, in that the show type is generally appreciated by the few who participate in it. he is a horse taken to extremes, and only a few people will enjoy it. granted he is a cute horse with what appears to be a good mind, so i am sure that he will make someone very happy. but these top show horses are so specialized in what they do that they look freakish to those of us who are looking in from the outside. his type only begins to look less bizarre after one has spent so much time around it that it is all they see. remember that the American park horses look perfectly normal to those who spend all their time around them. yet dressage people call it artificial, inverted, less supple and less balanced. now those of us from a different world than the elite breed shows of Europe express our shock at what is going on across the ocean. show horses who have been bred to such extremes will not be attractive to eveyone. that is just the way it is![/QUOTE]

Welcome Foxxxy- I take it you are not a dressage person- but I guess feel compelled to support the non- warmblood taste…so be it.
When you come across a natural mover that has no 40 pd shoes on their front feet and has been thru major- let’s call it ’ training’ to perform- when you come across an Arabian or a SAddlebred- that in its more or less natural form- looks absolutely splendid- please send a video- I love seeing truly divine horses- no matter what breed and purpose- as long as they haven’t yet been ‘worked over’ by the trainers…

[FoxxxyStarr]

hi Sabine. i admit that the extreme types of any breed look somewhat bizarre to me. but I think it is good to come to the dressage board and see that all disciplines have such extremes. it seems that part of horse showing is taking things to extremes, and while the resulting horses are very beautiful and athletic, they cannot please everyone with their way of going. yes, this is a dressage board so more people will appreciate the extreme type, but i am sure that there are dressage riders who may prefer a different type. it is a big world so there is room for all types! thanks again for the welcome!

[keana]

Rider

[QUOTE=Sabine;2029155]
Please don’t fight and be rude…this is such a great thread…

just found out the following information:

The rider is a state employee in Mecklenburg and that’s why he wears the uniform (it’s not a military uniform). He is also known to be a great rider.
The horse is owned by the Staatsgestuet- the District Breeding Association and noone knows at this point if they will give him to a famous dressage rider/trainer to train up- or if he’ll just stand at stud.

Ironically the Holsteiner Verband often gives really good stallions to active competitors and once they really hit the GrandPrix and start winning they call them back for breeding…(these are mostly jumpers).
Not sure they will have to do that in this case…I think there is no doubt about the natural talent, beauty and genepool in this specific case…
It would be good to know though if he has the brains and mind to be trained to GP and perform well…???[/QUOTE]

The horse is nice, but the rider was just as great! I love him in the vid!

[Sabine]

[QUOTE=FoxxxyStarr;2029214]
hi Sabine. i admit that the extreme types of any breed look somewhat bizarre to me. but I think it is good to come to the dressage board and see that all disciplines have such extremes. it seems that part of horse showing is taking things to extremes, and while the resulting horses are very beautiful and athletic, they cannot please everyone with their way of going. yes, this is a dressage board so more people will appreciate the extreme type, but i am sure that there are dressage riders who may prefer a different type. it is a big world so there is room for all types! thanks again for the welcome![/QUOTE]

- what horses are your faves?

I think the sequence of posts is out of whack again…