Inquest into Eventing Deaths of Olivia Inglis & Caitlyn Fischer Currently in Australia

[Jealoushe]

@Happyhack

Here’s a more detailed report of the coroner’s findings, listing all 31 of the recommendations. In theory they all seem logical and sensible, but I would imagine the cost of applying them all would price most national events out of the market… The idea of down-grading riders who do not seem capable of jumping the x-c is an interesting one.
https://horsesport.com/cuckson-report/coroner-31-recommendations-make-australian-eventing-safer/?fbclid=IwAR34GvViDfOlfXOXAAwMHw1HOj7Pb86MsfkqCoC3AW1ldZdfh5f3NnSIWko

They already do this in Canada, but in reality they never actually pull anyone off.

There are some really interesting points, one being how they see public funding going towards High Performance only might have an effect on the ability to run events as safely as possible because of lack of volunteers and support etc.

Another interesting point, is where it mentions that the course should always err on the side of the fence not creating any additional risk if it doesn’t have to. Like ground rails, and that if they can be used to make the fence safer, they should be used. I hope course designers heed this advice. Not sure why they are so against ground rails. Ground rails aren’t going to make a horse jump or not jump but they will certainly improve the horses chances of jumping the fence safely.

[Marigold]

@Happyhack

Here’s a more detailed report of the coroner’s findings

The full inquests published by the coroner are here (Olivia): http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov…20Findings.pdf and here (Caitlyn): http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov…inal%20(2).pdf

I am so grateful to everyone who took the time to investigate these events or provide evidence and who made the results available for everyone to learn from, and I am grateful for the recommendations given. With some hard work and self-examination, I hope we can make sure their deaths provide the foundation for life-saving measures in the future.

[OverandOnward]

I’m not sure I’d put so much blame on the riders for rejecting an 8 lb vest because of its weight and stiffness. I once tried on a vest that was very heavy and stiff. I don’t know if it was an EXO, but the description does sound familiar. I would have been unable to ride effectively while wearing it. In fact, I didn’t buy it because I would have been afraid to wear it while on a horse. It was so limiting of movement, and so interfering, that I would not have been able to ride through anything untoward. Having the vest cause a fall would have been an ironic way to test it.

Different materials and design to accomplish the same mission were needed in that case. Things need to improve so that they can be used effectively before they will be adopted.

Before someone jumps on that idea with a lot of misrepresentations, note that I mentioned accomplishing the same purpose. Just by different means. That’s what engineers and design specialist do.

[Horseman15]

At the risk of really irritating some of the other members here I have to say this much. In the picture with Olivia jumping she does not have a good position in the slightest. She’s all up on her horse’s neck and very far forward. Any change of the horses forward momentum and she has no place to go. Leaning forward like that she is also out of balance. I know the majority of people like to lean forward when they jump, which isn’t inherently bad. The problem is so many do not realize you’re trying to stay balanced and when leaning forward you do not go past the vertical. I agree that she should have had better protection. I myself wear the stiffer jump vests and the IRH II helmet with the wrap around neck support. I also agree that we need to focus more one better riding and better horsemanship. Please understand I mean no disrespect to anyone, but there is a lot that we need to rethink and to teach everyone.

[JER]

@OverandOnward

I’m not sure I’d put so much blame on the riders for rejecting an 8 lb vest because of its weight and stiffness. I once tried on a vest that was very heavy and stiff. I don’t know if it was an EXO, but the description does sound familiar. I would have been unable to ride effectively while wearing it. In fact, I didn’t buy it because I would have been afraid to wear it while on a horse. It was so limiting of movement, and so interfering, that I would not have been able to ride through anything untoward. Having the vest cause a fall would have been an ironic way to test it.

What you tried on doesn’t fit the description of an EXO at all.

An EXO has a metal cage that goes around your torso and closes at the sides. It hangs away from your body and your shoulders are not restricted.

The EXO does, however, have a long history of people claiming it’s uncomfortable and impossible for them to wear. Many of these people, IME, haven’t actually tried it.

It’s interesting how we make excuses for rejecting safety when it’s inconvenient, unfashionable or ‘uncomfortable’. The people behind the EXO knew this all too well and they tried very hard to get a BN rider to wear it in competition because they knew the eventing masses would follow along with the fashionable safety choices of the BN rider du jour.

You may recall that this is the exact same strategy that Point Two used to great success when they brought out the Air Vest - they gave it to every pro everywhere and made the masses want one too. Never mind that their website was festooned with false claims and they got sanctioned repeated by the advertising standards board and they’ve offered to this day zero proof that their inflatable garment does eff-all to protect you.

[FrittSkritt]

@JER

An EXO has a metal cage that goes around your torso and closes at the sides. It hangs away from your body and your shoulders are not restricted.

The EXO does, however, have a long history of people claiming it’s uncomfortable and impossible for them to wear. Many of these people, IME, haven’t actually tried it.

It’s interesting how we make excuses for rejecting safety when it’s inconvenient, unfashionable or ‘uncomfortable’. The people behind the EXO knew this all too well and they tried very hard to get a BN rider to wear it in competition because they knew the eventing masses would follow along with the fashionable safety choices of the BN rider du jour.

The only thing I find prohibitive in my Exo is that it’s slightly harder to turn and look, say, over my shoulder without rotating my entire torso along with the vest. But IMO the only direction you need to be looking when doing XC is in front of you… :lol:

FWIW, I also would wear my Exo on gallop sets. Even though the risk of a rotational fall on the flat is probably very small, it made me become more comfortable in how I was able to balance and control my torso. It was also like a bit of weight training for my upper body, so when I wore it in competition, I wouldn’t be [as] fatigued by the end of XC had I trained without it.

Unfortunately, without financial backing or consumer demand (which would require education of the masses and perhaps some solid scientific proof), I don’t see it coming back on the market anytime soon. :-/ Fortunately magnesium alloy doesn’t degrade like foam does, so I anticipate using mine as long as I can!

[JER]

@FrittSkritt

FWIW, I also would wear my Exo on gallop sets. Even though the risk of a rotational fall on the flat is probably very small…

A rider died from this kind of fall in competition not that many years ago.

The thing about a rotational fall or any fall in which the rider is crushed by the horse is that it’s low-probability high-catastrophe. Like a plane crash.

The EXO paradox says a lot about eventers. We have a product that can prevent massive crush injuries like those in a rotational fall. Yet the rationale to NOT use it overrides the wider adoption of the technology. Instead, people wear these useless inflatables and even purchase them for their children.

So at some level, the eventing community accepts a small but consistent and partly preventable rider fatality rate.

[OverandOnward]

The same thing was true of helmets vs “hard hats”, for decades. The hard hat was designed to look like a hunt cap, made out of a hard material. The problem was that the material was light and thin and had no real chin harness. If I fell off, the hard hat / hardened hunt cap would slide off and hit the ground before I did. It split in two when my head hit a tree branch. Those hardened hunt caps were mostly useless, and were worn for appearances. But the helmet-wearers were known as ‘mushroom heads’ and no one wanted to be that. (No harm done when my head hit that tree branch, or at least no one could tell the difference. )

There is no conscious community decision “we’d rather lose a few of us than be uncomfortable and look uncool”. People just aren’t fully informed (never heard of an EXO before this thread) and they aren’t seeking the information. The big change happens after a major public incident where the safety item in question is identified as the primary saver from tragedy, for someone who resonates with the public… That’s how the inflatables became so popular. Hardly anyone was buying them before Oliver Townend was in a rotational fall down the Kentucky double-down in 2010, and publicly attributed his survival to his inflatable safety vest.

Studies show that most people don’t make decisions based on rational analysis of empirical data, but on emotion and group norms. So that’s how the information needs to be communicated to successfully penetrate the public mind.

[punchy]

@Jealoushe

Update: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-04/inquest-into-equestrian-deaths-call-for-better-safety-practices/11575750

Glad to see some suggstions other than making jumps fall down.

Interesting and terrifying to think they did not have the proper medical equipment at the event to help in the event of a crush injury. Probably not something many people think of. When you really think about it though, compared to other dangerous sports, us equestrians really do play our medical on site pretty willy nilly. Just a St Johns ambulance type person there and thats it at National Events.

At Bokelo I watched a rider have a sort of sideways rotational fall- similar to Woodge Fulton’s fall at Burghly but they rolled over twice and the horse was lying on top of the rider unable to roll on its belly to get up (the rider had an air vest on that deployed). Anyway, the horse managed to get up and the rider was lying there for about a minute-they put a screen around her- and then she got up with assistance and they walked her off; she looked completely disoriented. I was like, hello? Where tf is the ambulance?

[JER]

@OverandOnward

Studies show that most people don’t make decisions based on rational analysis of empirical data, but on emotion and group norms.

It’s a sad day when the Illusion of Causality becomes the Illusion of Safety.

[Jealoushe]

@JER

A rider died from this kind of fall in competition not that many years ago.

The thing about a rotational fall or any fall in which the rider is crushed by the horse is that it’s low-probability high-catastrophe. Like a plane crash.

The EXO paradox says a lot about eventers. We have a product that can prevent massive crush injuries like those in a rotational fall. Yet the rationale to NOT use it overrides the wider adoption of the technology. Instead, people wear these useless inflatables and even purchase them for their children.

So at some level, the eventing community accepts a small but consistent and partly preventable rider fatality rate.

It seems like it was too ahead of its time, equestrians are always the last athletes to jump on the safety and technology train. The fact we are just now seeing athletic clothing for riders, and tack that is way more comfortable for horses after like how many hundreds of years of horses being domesticated says it all lol

[OverandOnward]

@JER

It’s a sad day when the Illusion of Causality becomes the Illusion of Safety.

That ship sailed shortly after the emergence of the human race.

Marketers get it. Turn the sound off the television ads and you will see what they are REALLY selling (lifestyle rather than product qualities, which are seldom mentioned) (not that the sound makes much difference these days). THAT is how to get the public into anything, for any real reason. :yes:

[OverandOnward]

@Jealoushe

It seems like it was too ahead of its time, equestrians are always the last athletes to jump on the safety and technology train. The fact we are just now seeing athletic clothing for riders, and tack that is way more comfortable for horses after like how many hundreds of years of horses being domesticated says it all lol

And it is also readily seen by how SLOW equestrians and equestrian marketing was to pick up on new, better options in outdoor clothing !!! Years behind until they began to adopt clothing that is far more comfortable in various weather, from sunshirts to winter gloves. Even though many equestrians do other outdoor sports as well, wearing other gear. And many equestrians are well-educated, even brilliant in their own fields, but continue to do horse things pretty much as we have done them for the last couple of hundred years.

There is something about the horse bubble that is almost impervious.

[JER]

@OverandOnward

THAT is how to get the public into anything, for any real reason. :yes:

Are we talking about ‘the public’ here?

The eventing community is a very small demographic that has a heightened awareness of and need for safety.

[OverandOnward]

@JER

Are we talking about ‘the public’ here?

The eventing community is a very small demographic that has a heightened awareness of and need for safety.

You seem to have switched sides? :lol: :winkgrin:

[JER]

@OverandOnward

You seem to have switched sides? :lol: :winkgrin:

Not sure what your point is here.

[Willesdon]

@OverandOnward

The same thing was true of helmets vs “hard hats”, for decades… the helmet-wearers were known as ‘mushroom heads’ and no one wanted to be that…
There is no conscious community decision “we’d rather lose a few of us than be uncomfortable and look uncool”. People just aren’t fully informed (never heard of an EXO before this thread) and they aren’t seeking the information…

Protective helmets are now worn by the overwhelming majority of eventers, hunters etc and are even breaking into European dressage. Western riding: different story, different culture, different market. Modern helmets are tested, effective, available, affordable and easy to wear. Manufacturers responded to the market and made the helmets less mushroom-like, the harness gradually more comfortable and so on. And many competitions made helmets of a certain standard complusory. By contrast, EXO failed to gain traction with enough riders, the manufacturer failed to adapt. Nice idea, didn’t work. Not because riders resist change or fail to grasp the need for safety but because the technology did not meet the needs of the majority. Several competitors tried, most stopped. There is, in this fora, a small but vocal group who dearly love their EXO and always speak up about them. Not enough of the wider market agreed with them.

[JER]

@Willesdon

Not because riders resist change or fail to grasp the need for safety but because the technology did not meet the needs of the majority.

In eventing, it’s only a very small minority who are killed when they get crushed by their horse. So it’s not all that often that this need presents itself as a need to be met.

In motorsport, the HANS device (head/neck restraint) was available to drivers starting in the early 90s but everyone had an excuse not to use it for the first ten years.

Then Dale Earnhardt was killed and the HANS became mandatory.

I don’t profess to ‘love’ the EXO. I do accept that there is a safety device available to riders that can protect them from massive crush injuries and blunt force trauma to the upper torso. And because that device is/was available, I made sure to have that device.

It’s not a question of love/like/hate/looks/opinion, it’s matter of fact.

But then I would have been the one cruising around with the HANS even when no one else was using it. To me, it’s friggin’ common sense.

[Equibrit]

Dale Earnhart died because he didn’t have his seatbelt pulled down tight, and his head hit the door pillar. Operator error. There was too much testosterone in NASCAR racing at that time. They didn’t want to follow those squat’n pee European racer types.
Take that out of the equation and you are a lot closer to safety.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Equibrit

Dale Earnhart died because he didn’t have his seatbelt pulled down tight, and his head hit the door pillar.

I don’t believe this is accurate. Dale Earnhardt died because his head and neck were not held securely in place resulting in a basilar skull fracture (which a HANS may have prevented). There was conjecture that his seatbelt failed allowing him to impact the steering wheel (not the A pillar). Subsequent investigation agrees that it was the head snapping forward causing the basilar fracture was the cause of death.

The HANS became mandatory 8 months after DE’s death. By the time the HANS was mandatory, almost every driver was wearing some type of head-neck restraint system. Additionally, NASCAR started working on an updated car design, the Car of Tomorrow. NASCAR started working with the tracks to install SAFER (Steel And Foam Energy Reduction) barriers where the top national series raced.

Sometimes, it takes something “catastrophic” to initiate change. For eventing, is that answer the EXO or something similar? I would agree that if learning something looks like it will help minimize injury, worth pursing.

Same, a bit, as seatbelts in passenger cars. Much resistance when they first appeared and many would not wear them (remember those, IMO, annoying , belts that would slide into position when the door closed?) Now, for many, putting on the seatbelt is habit. For some, they still don’t wear one even if mandated by state statue.

I don’t ride but when I was, I was dreaming of riding my steady-eddy mare at some fun, low level, event. I miss jump judging. I hope safety in this sport continues to be researched to learn what can be done to keep horses and riders as safe as possible…