Insight on breeding Thoroughbred mare for Eventing

[OtterEventing]

I’m looking at breeding our Thoroughbred mare Maggie for the first time. I’ve been mainly looking at Holsteiner stallions but am open to options. I really like Contiano BF out of Branscomb Farm.

The mare is lovely and competed through Prelim. She is a sensitive ride whose a bit of a worrier and a brilliant jumper. Looking to get a little more bravery and level-headedness from the stallion along with movement.

Maggie is 13 years old and a maiden mare. From what I’ve seen I’m trying to stay with cooled instead of frozen. If anyone has any thoughts on stallions I’m open to ideas!

[Fred]

I love the TB Holsteiner cross, and have done this X numerous times, my A Fine Romance sisters to Holsteiner stallions and him to Holsteiner mares.

I bred one of my A Fine Romance daughters to the jumper stallion VDL Windsor H (Indoctro x Ahorn). He is a lovely stallion, of modern type, a beautiful supple mover with a superb jump and excellent temperament, competing in the jumper ring with his AA owner.
I am absolutely thrilled with the colt that resulted from this breeding, who is now 2 yrs old. He is very TB in type, an extremely good mover and an incredible athlete, and smart.
Here is my colt, Palace Romance: https://www.facebook.com/119405697399/photos/pb.119405697399.-2207520000.1451520131./10153672297047400/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/119405697399/photos/pb.119405697399.-2207520000.1451520293./10153703286302400/?type=3&theater

VDL Windsor is in Canada and is available fresh with excellent semen.
I have no connection to him other than having bred to him.
Another stallion I like very much is Dreamscape’s young Holsteiner ‘Lestat’.

[silverdog]

The modern Trakehners crossed with TB’s make for a nice athletic horse. I don’t know the first thing about breeding but I have a 3/4 TB and 1/4 Trak who should make a damn nice event horse now he has his issues worked out.

[JER]

Based on his video, I’d say that Contiano BF has a jump that’s not forward enough for eventing. He has a nice enough jump, but it’s more ‘up’ than forward, he hangs a bit in the air. In eventing, you want the jump to have lots of forward.

Also, he’s 35% XX/OX blood, which is not, IME and IMO, enough blood for eventing. Yes, there are exceptions, blahblahblah, but I like to see more like 60% for breeding to TB mares.

[Winding_Down]

check with Elizabeth!

OP, do you want a potential 4* horse or a potential 2* horse, or… If breeding for eventing/sales, then it is the former.

Elizabeth Callahan is on this forum and she has been very successful in breeding great crosses - and she has not bred a ton of mares and has still had this success.

I am BIG on looking at the offspring of stallions as well as the stallions themselves. I would go look at some of the most talented young and seasoned horses out there and check out their sires or close relatives.

[beowulf]

What is the breeding of your mare, and movement? That is also a deciding factor…

I also agree, the stallion of your eye seems a little too uphill in his jump style to be efficient enough for cross country. TBs usually have efficient gallops but it’s always important to assess the stallion’s gallop as that is a big contribution to the equation. I agree VDL Windsor is nice…

If breeding for personal use and no goals above 2*s, it’s too bad Beaulieau’s Coolman is gone. He checks all of your boxes and has lots of very wonderful minded, beautiful moving and competitive eventers on the ground who have no problem reaching Prelim… a friend of mine put down her BC gelding last week … he was extraordinary. BC crossed well with TBs from what I have seen and stamped them with extraordinary kindness.

[OtterEventing]

Maggie’s sire is Mystic Replica and her dam is Alexander Bay. I am not looking to breed a 4* horse but I would say a 2* is goal. She is a hotter mare so I am hesitant to add Trakehner.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=832162360167987&set=a.832161436834746.1073741837.100001226913049&type=3&theater

This is a link to a photo of her, there are also more photos of her if you keep clicking in the album.

Definitely good insight so far!

[beowulf]

no surprise she is a brilliant jumper, what with MR so close. wouldn’t let me see your image, however. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on suggestions for this thread.

there is a really nice horse a few posters on here like, FUTURE GRAVITAS, who is part of the same family as Winsome Adante. I think he needs a mare with a correct hind end and already a good mover basis. He doesn’t have many foals on the ground as he is 2010, IIRC. BFNE was trying for a foal with him.

Jaguar Mail is another, I believe MJ has one JM gelding in his fleet who is very, very nice. He seems to cross better with full TBs as well as his progeny can be heavy. Mighty Magic is another, who I would only use for a full TB after reading other people’s experience with him - his progeny seem to stay around the 2* level though, but they are all very nice.

there was a breeder on this forum who suggested Valentino a month back, who I believe has made a staggering jump in the WBFSH eventing sire list this year.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=OtterEventing;8462767]
Maggie’s sire is Mystic Replica and her dam is Alexander Bay. I am not looking to breed a 4* horse but I would say a 2* is goal. She is a hotter mare so I am hesitant to add Trakehner.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=832162360167987&set=a.832161436834746.1073741837.100001226913049&type=3&theater

This is a link to a photo of her, there are also more photos of her if you keep clicking in the album.

Definitely good insight so far![/QUOTE]

Honestly–I’d give Mary Hazzard a call as she would know what crosses best with those lines. We have lovely Mystic Replica mare in our barn who also did a 1* and I personally know his many by his sire myself.

BE VERY careful crossing on a heavy WB. The Mystic Replica and related horses that I know have and throw more than enough substance and you could easily end up heavier than you want.

I would personally NOT shy away from Trakehners for eventing. Halimey might be a good cross. I have one by Grafenstolz out of a HOT TB mare…and he is most definitely calmer and easier than his dam.

But I would be looking at sires with a lot more blood. Like Lotus T or Gatsby.

I do like quite a few of the TBs crosses by Roc USA but I don’t think I would go to him with a Mystic Replica daughter…might not get refined enough.

I do tend to use more frozen. You have a lot more choices. I’m not sure I would limit yourself. Maybe pick the best match…even if frozen…and if frozen, have a back up choice that is not. That is what I typically do.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@beowulf;8462778

there is a really nice horse a few posters on here like, FUTURE GRAVITAS, who is part of the same family as Winsome Adante. I think he needs a mare with a correct hind end and already a good mover basis. He doesn’t have many foals on the ground as he is 2010, IIRC. BFNE was trying for a foal with him.

Future Gravitas’ frozen is VERY good quality. I was very bummed we lost the filly this year (breach birth). I will be trying again this spring with probably 2 mares.

ETA: I’m looking at Contenda for my maiden TB mare. She isn’t much younger than the OPs…but I’ll still give frozen a shot.

[OtterEventing]

I edited the privacy settings so should be good now!

[babecakes]

Nice looking mare.

[IronwoodFarm]

If you are going with a warmblood stallion, please go to the trouble of getting your mare approved for a breed book so that the foal can have papers. If it should happen that you decide not to keep a foal a few years down the road, then you have a more valuable horse because you have papers. Since you are looking at Holsteiners, here is the link to their mare requirements: http://www.holsteiner.com/#!mares/cif0

The requirements for eligible non-Holsteiner mares is at the bottom.

[elizabeth_Callahan]

I think you could go with a lighter type sire as well with this mare. Tatendrang is one, as well as Halimey . If you are looking Holsteiner, then i’d look for a stallion that has produced both dressage and jumping horses - instead of pure jumpers…

[judybigredpony]

No weighing on Stallion choices…But an FYI from experiance…first foal,maiden mare…use cooled or fresh…not every mare will,accept,frozen and you don t want to gaff around an keep,attempting to get her in foal…get one in there keep,it full,term and then you can try for frozen…