Interesting article c6-c7 malformation

[Peggy]

Formerly missing post now posted.

My horse Star, a TB-WB cross (pedigree link) had some sort of malformation in C-6/7. Can’t remember the details unfortunately. He stumbled pretty much from the time he was started under saddle. For years we thought he was just a klutz, until a bone scan and then radiographs revealed the abnormality when he was 12. Neck injections rendered him rideable, and non-stumbling, and lasted about a year. I did them once more and then retired him when he was 14. He passed a neuro exam, except that he refused to wear a blindfold. I never got him jumping again after discovering the neck issue. Had I been bright enough to have the entire horse scanned the first time he strained his collateral ligaments when he was 9, we probably would have found the neck then and maybe things would have ended up differently.

A second horse, Skipper, a TB with fairly atypical bloodlines for a modern racing TB, which he was not (pedigree link) had arthritis in his neck at C-5,6.7, which we found when he was four and NQR behind. He passed the neuro exam until asked to walk blindfolded down a hill, whereupon he exhibited hypermetria with his front limbs I rehabbed him from the medley of issues we found at that time, got him going under saddle after two years (rehab, more rehab, Dr. Green), whereupon the same issues recurred within a year. By then the neck radiographs were much worse. Not sure he had the malformed cervical vertebra or not. I had him euthanized shortly after his 7th birthday. Oddly, although he did kind of lean against his stall wall, presumably for balance, he never felt unstable under saddle.

Both horses do go back to Nearco, FWIW.

[Peggy]

I posted something about 30 minutes ago, complete with pedigree links for the two horses, which it said was on the next page. It also says that I am subscribed to the thread (even before I posted this). But I can’t see my post. Can anyone else see it?

Edited to add that I can see THIS post, but not the one I posted earlier.

And edited again to note that it has now appeared, right above this post, so stamped at the time I originally posted it.

[Simkie]

Peggy, sometimes stuff gets hung up as unaccepted, and the mods have to clear it. It’s part of the new spam reducing efforts, and kicks in with links (sometimes!) Probably that?

But since we’re talking about pedigrees, here is my “neck horse”:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/blushing+maiden

I’ve long thought her issues were due to trauma when under general anesthesia, but maybe not? She does have problems at C6/C7.

[RugBug]

This is fascinating. I have a semi retired TB. We never did any diagnostics because they wouldn’t have changed the course of action, but we believe there are issues at the base of his neck. I wouldn’t confidently say this was the issue, though.

DMK-sorry to hear about Lido. I knew something was up, but had no idea it was this

[Peggy]

@Simkie

Peggy, sometimes stuff gets hung up as unaccepted, and the mods have to clear it. It’s part of the new spam reducing efforts, and kicks in with links (sometimes!) Probably that?

I won’t re-type it yet.

@Simkie

But since we’re talking about pedigrees, here is my “neck horse”:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/blushing+maiden

I’ve long thought her issues were due to trauma when under general anesthesia, but maybe not? She does have problems at C6/C7.

Star’s neck issues became more apparent after he was put under general anesthesia in May 2011 to repair a broken jaw. Struggling to get free of the chain on his stall that he grabbed probably didn’t do his neck any favors either. He was never quite the same after that incident.

[DMK]

Thanks rugbug, I am having soooo much fun with xander, so that helps (I’m smitten).

Years ago when I was still working at a layup barn (ok, decades ago) I remember an article about wobblers and some consideration that the cervical anomaly might be dormant until a mild injury to the neck triggered more severe symptoms. In Lido’s case I can’t point to one instance like anesthesia but I’ve always wondered if there was a pasture crash that precipitated the change…

Simkie, look at us with a turn to x ribot nick … literally the one cross you would love to see in a warmbood as well

[kcmel]

Here’s mine (not him but his full sister)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tours+val

[Texarkana]

@PeteyPie

I agree with your premise but I wonder about the aging process in commercial stallions. So many are put down in their early twenties. I assume that is not just because of health issues but because after their breeding life is over, there is no point to keeping them around too long. That is another issue I suppose, but my point is that there might be a lot more stallions with a long-life potential than what we see.

The statement I bolded couldn’t be more incorrect.

No reputable breeder puts down a stallion because his breeding life is over. It doesn’t happen, barring the rare schmuck or scumbag. Schmucks and scumbags are found in every facet of the horse world.

I’m sure you didn’t mean anything by the statement, but it has me so angry I could spit nails. These stallions are cherished, yet everyone thinks of Ferdinand or the Alydar conspiracy theories (which are just that- conspiracy theories). Meanwhile, you have pensioners in their 20s and 30s living the life of Riley at just about every major breeding farm.

These stallions work hard. There is a reason every bag of feed shows increased nutrient demands for breeding stallions, and no one works harder than a successful thoroughbred stallion. A lifetime of exertion takes its toll on an animal.

---

With that said, I can think of at least a half dozen (or more) prominent TBs who have undergone cervical surgery for neuro issues. None of them are similarly bred in the first few generations.

I would suspect this genetic link extends faaaaaar back in time in the breeding pool… not sourced from a modern stallion. Especially if TB blood is the carrier of the malformation in WBs, QHs, and an unknown number of STBs; none of those breeds have been heavily influenced by modern stallions (Mr. P et. al). The prevalence in Arabs is interesting-- makes me wonder if that was where the malformation originated or if there was undocumented cross contamination of the bloodlines in the the hundreds of years before DNA testing.

With funding, shouldn’t we be able to isolate the genetic source of this through DNA testing? Carriers, non-carriers, etc.

[Simkie]

@Texarkana

With that said, I can think of at least a half dozen (or more) prominent TBs who have undergone cervical surgery for neuro issues. None of them are similarly bred in the first few generations.

Can you share who? :yes:

[Texarkana]

@Simkie

Can you share who? :yes:

The aforementioned Seattle Slew, Saint Ballado, Jet Master.

Cigar, Street Cry (who I don’t think ever had surgery for it), Shamardal…

There was a Japanese stallion recently who was euthanized due to neck issues whose name escapes me…

ETA: The Japanese sire was Fuji Kiseki, by Sunday Silence.

[DMK]

More similarly bred than not. Sunday Silence, Street Cry and Saint Balladoo are all close up to Halo. Cigar’s damsire is Seattle Slew. There’s 5 of the 6 right there.

[RatWrangler]

If you look at the comments on the article, she was warned not to reveal the sire line and actually had at least one death threat.

[Texarkana]

Jet Master’s sire is out of a Halo mare. Shamardal’s broodmare sire is Machiavellian, who is out of a Halo mare (also the sire of Street Cry).

Maybe Halo was such an ahole because his neck hurt.

Then again, there are thousands upon thousands with him on the page and no reason to suspect malformation. While Slew and Halo may be clues or even carriers, I still think the origin the article alluded to is likely much further back in time.

[Texarkana]

Two more with neck issues who I was surprised to learn about, considering how closely I’ve followed the lives and careers of both:

Kingmambo and Kris S

[Derid]

As an undergraduate work-study student many, many years ago, I cleaned the skeleton of a TB yearling presented with wobblers at the vet school. A beautiful chestnut colt. Two of the professors made mention the Swaps lineage was prone to neurological issues…

[DMK]

My thoughts on Halo was less he was the sole source and more that the force was strong in that particular line

[kcmel]

@DMK

My thoughts on Halo was less he was the sole source and more that the force was strong in that particular line

Agree, I am seeing a lot of Royal Charger (mostly through Turn To) in these pedigrees. So that’s my guess!

[Peggy]

@kcmel

Agree, I am seeing a lot of Royal Charger (mostly through Turn To) in these pedigrees. So that’s my guess!

And my Skipper horse (post 21) is doubled on the Royal Charger via the inbreeding(?) to Oklahoma Bound. Hmmm.

[Mara]

I thought this, in the comments, was interesting:

“With a potential 30% in Warmbloods, there are a lot of breeders that stand to lose if this congenital malformation became a reason for loss of purchase. Which by the way has just happened at a major European Warmblood auction!”

Wonder where and which horse?

[kcmel]

@Peggy

And my Skipper horse (post 21) is doubled on the Royal Charger via the inbreeding(?) to Oklahoma Bound. Hmmm.

I know; I was looking at Turn To but your guy had the Royal Charger. Mine has double Turn To.