Interesting article on doing less (trainers)

[enjoytheride]

Sure. The high end clients with their 6 figure horses certainly deserve to get what they pay for. They deserve to fly in on Saturday after their trainer has already taken their horse around and enjoy their ribbons. I certainly can’t afford to be part of that world, and certainly wouldn’t fit into that program. My current trainer is happy to teach me when I haul in for my weekly lessons but is fine that I won’t be coming to any rated shows with them. I’ve left a few trainers when they switched to more of a program type situation.

My issue is the suggestions that trainers should drop “low end” clients said so casually and callously and focus on the big spenders when in reality we have fewer and fewer big spenders.

Perhaps a mindset change to clients becoming more self sufficient? Instead of to clients that can spend more?

Then the middle class could participate as well.

[red_mares]

@enjoytheride

My issue is the suggestions that trainers should drop “low value” clients and focus on the big spenders. It shows how little part of that world values the rest of us.

Welcome to real life. It’s pretty much like that in every facet of life. If you pay less than others, your business is of less value. Horses are a luxury; there’s no reason for anyone to subsidize your habit.

[enjoytheride]

I too exist in real life, there’s no reason to be snarky as well to us low value people. Where did I say that someone should subsidize my habit?

[Renn_aissance]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

But with horse sports, it’s much harder to do things ethically, safely, and cheaply!

I think you’re getting back to what we need to reckon with- there’s tension between “do less” and “acceptable care.”

Acceptable care to me means regular veterinary attention to maintain the horse in physical comfort, nutrition to keep the horse in good health, shelter from the elements keeping in mind that horses have been known to stand outside in the rain even when they have a shed, and a herd and life dynamic that keeps them emotionally even-keeled.

An “easy” (go with me on this) way to reduce costs while meeting those objectives is to turn the horse out near-24/7 so you reduce your staff and feed costs. This works if you’re in an area of the country where you can maintain a herd on pasture plus some concentrate. It works if your horse’s body matches the available climate. It works if you can afford to maintain the land for the horse to graze on. And then the flip side of that, if you have a boarding operation, is that the clients need to realize that the horse is going to be a dirtball pretty much all the time, so they need to have time to catch and clean up the horse if they want to ride.

Not an option in the area? How else do you reduce staff time and cost? Update your infrastructure to minimize the amount of walking staff need to do from field to barn so you halve the time it takes to turn in and turn out horses? Invest in an ATV to pull a dump trailer to the manure pit so no one has to use a wheelbarrow? Those require up-front investment and may not be feasible depending on the layout of the property. Reduce the service menu? That changes the type of client you can attract to one who is either fine with providing those services themselves and can drive to the barn every day the thing needs to be done, or who didn’t value the services anyway. So do you, the barn owner/trainer, think those services are necessary? Are you willing to have some members of the herd not get the thing?

I’m speaking as a client who’s got pretty high standards of horse care and is being priced out of the market. Either I’m going to need to accept that I’m paying in my time to do a partial board/self care situation to be able to afford horse care by people who get paid a living wage and aren’t being driven totally bonkers, or I need to accept that I can’t pay with money.

In turn, that also speaks to the client education and expectation management piece being discussed. This is not a sport where the kid can get dropped off for an hour and then picked back up- unless you’re on a hefty training package. Trainers need to think hard about what they can offer and then be up front about what they expect from their clients. 5am at the barn to scrub the pony and get it on the trailer, and 7pm putting ligament on the legs back home. There’s a lot that goes into making that work, but some of it is teaching your students how to do it. In all your spare time. And teaching their parents that it’s expected. Ditto.

[Texarkana]

@rulex

It’s the erosion of the middle class lifestyle and it’s happening all around not just in the horse world.

I’ve been ruminating on this.

Things that were once an accessible treat are now becoming luxuries for the majority of people: horseback riding, skiing, travel/vacations…

At the same time, we have so many more little luxuries-turned necessities. Daily life is just so much more expensive.

With horses, I think we have painted ourselves into a proverbial corner when it comes to costs. Yes, horse costs have gone up just like everything else. But we’ve also created a lot of costs that did not exist a few decades ago. We “demand” a lot more from a trainer, boarding barn, show facility, etc. Some of those demands were good improvements, some are really more like luxuries… but all of them increase costs.

[FitToBeTied]

@enjoytheride

This low value client is disgusted at the label, but finally glad someone said the quiet part out loud. That people with lower budgets, who haul in for lessons but don’t go to the A shows, who do their own grooming and entries at local shows, are worthless.

I, who used the low value client label, would argue that you are not low value because all you are really costing the trainer is her time and some minimal wear and tear on the facility. When you trailer in for a lesson and do everything yourself means that what you pay is almost 100% profit for the trainer.

In my view the low value client is the one that uses a lot of the assets of the trainer (e.g., labor, facility, etc.) but contributes little in terms of profitability. I have been surprised when I have talked to trainers that they can’t tell me the economic value of a stall in their barn.

ETA: I also surprised that many trainers view board as a break even proposition and plan to make up for that with additional services. Board should as profit making as any other service offered.

[FjordBCRF]

@Texarkana

Yes, horse costs have gone up just like everything else. But we’ve also created a lot of costs that did not exist a few decades ago

I think about this a lot. DH and I both still drive vehicles until they become unreliable. In our neighborhood, it seems like a monthly car/lease payment is just accepted as the norm as we see lots of new car turnover. If you have to have the latest tech, that costs thousands to keep up with. I know plenty of people that spend a lot traveling that just throw vacations on credit cards.

I think its harder for a lot of people today with social media and how people portray their lives than when people’s circles were smaller. It’s one thing when the Jones’ lived next door to keep up with vs seeing your whole social circle plus people you don’t even know out there with the latest and greatest.

On topic - work life balance is important for everyone. Some professions are more accommodating to it than others, the horse industry has never been one. Maybe it will be someday, but it will come with a cost such as pricing out more people now than it has in the past.

I am such a low value client, I’m actually a no value client and am in no way offended by the term. When Charlie’s Lyme issues flared up again last spring, that was the end of me paying for anything trainer related. I’ve spent an buttload of money on getting him diagnosed/treated/rehabbed…much more than I was spending on anything trainer related. Once he is done with treatment, I am looking forward to hopefully being able to start saving a little more again.

I still board at the same barn my trainer is at, (they are in the process of building their own), and I will stay when they all leave for the new place. I was upfront and told the trainer I don’t want to take up a stall if I am not formally in the program because that is taking up a spot for someone who will pay a lot more in lessons/training than I ever would. Probably more relevant, I don’t want to be at a lesson/training barn.

[kenyarider]

Former Vail skier, former horse show rider.

[Texarkana]

I listen to a lot of horsey podcasts and hear a lot about different business models.

There are often two major schools of thought for running an equine business: find your niche or diversify.

While both have their pros and cons, I think the “find your niche” jives with what Matt Brown is trying to say in his blog.

Instead of hustling to seize every opportunity, focus on doing a few things well.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense to try to train, give lessons, board, compete, sell horses, travel to give clinics, breed, etc. Maybe you need to do that at first to find your niche, but once you find what you’re good at, you need to streamline that into a business. You can still “diversity,” but diversification does not mean saying yes to everything. Probably the best way to do that is find passive income opportunities or something outside of horses or at least outside your immediate circle.

WRT “low value clients,” I think it is easy to assume “low value” equals “not rich.” But I don’t think that is necessarily true. I think a “low value client” is someone who is reducing your overall success. You could have a high-paying client who eats up a lot of your time or mental capacity, therefore turning themselves into a “low value client.” And you could have a client paying you next to nothing, but is pure profit or benefit.

(Spoken like someone who burned out as a horse pro very early on and just putzes around with my horses in my backyard, lol)

[enjoytheride]

I think it’s also why we wonder why there aren’t any entries above X height in eventing and HJ and why they keep making smaller and smaller divisions.

The price of a safe horse to do that job, plus all the money in time and lessons and vets and training and tack and etc has priced a lot of the middle class out. Pre Covid you could get a decent TB that was already going BN for 10k. Post Covid that same horse cost 40k. I’m all about trainers finally getting the value out of all of their training but it’s created a flip side where fewer people can afford those horses.

[Amberley]

The real problem is that a lot of trainers can’t do a business plan or math and set themselves up to fail. Buying a farm in a desirable area and having 10-15 clients that you train while pursuing your own show career is not a business, it’s a housing and lifestyle choice that you are supplementing with a side hustle. You cannot make money with a small boarding and training barn especially now that mortgages are in the $10-30k range for a facility. Most of the young pros around here that did that are drowning in work and debt and stuck living with their parents who bankrolled them. They will never advance in their own riding and would have been much better off working as an assistant elsewhere.

If you have high expenses you have to scale way, way up to cover them- have 40+ clients, show all the time and a sales business and staff it accordingly. And you need to be good enough to do that and have the results to show. The big AQHA places make money and they might start 100 colts a year and have a few different farms under one umbrella.

Or you can go in the other direction and do what a lot of west coast trainers do and keep full training horses boarded at a facility you don’t own or run. That way your expenses are near zero and you get paid by the hour.

Boarding wise- 30 is the bare minimum break even. 50 is better and 100+ is usually sustainable as a standalone. That’s assuming you actually work at the business and treat it as a business and are not paying others to manage it while you are off showing. I have seen people buy multiple properties and spread staff across them to make it work as a business and that does work.

I couldn’t survive financially in my job if I only had a few clients and spent 25 hours a week doing my own personal projects that are mediocre quality, you have to be realistic about money and about what you bring to the table.

[Texarkana]

@FjordBCRF

@Texarkana

Yes, horse costs have gone up just like everything else. But we’ve also created a lot of costs that did not exist a few decades ago

I think about this a lot. DH and I both still drive vehicles until they become unreliable. In our neighborhood, it seems like a monthly car/lease payment is just accepted as the norm as we see lots of new car turnover. If you have to have the latest tech, that costs thousands to keep up with. I know plenty of people that spend a lot traveling that just throw vacations on credit cards.

I think its harder for a lot of people today with social media and how people portray their lives than when people’s circles were smaller. It’s one thing when the Jones’ lived next door to keep up with vs seeing your whole social circle plus people you don’t even know out there with the latest and greatest.

On topic - work life balance is important for everyone. Some professions are more accommodating to it than others, the horse industry has never been one. Maybe it will be someday, but it will come with a cost such as pricing out more people now than it has in the past.

I am such a low value client, I’m actually a no value client and am in no way offended by the term. When Charlie’s Lyme issues flared up again last spring, that was the end of me paying for anything trainer related. I’ve spent an buttload of money on getting him diagnosed/treated/rehabbed…much more than I was spending on anything trainer related. Once he is done with treatment, I am looking forward to hopefully being able to start saving a little more again.

I still board at the same barn my trainer is at, (they are in the process of building their own), and I will stay when they all leave for the new place. I was upfront and told the trainer I don’t want to take up a stall if I am not formally in the program because that is taking up a spot for someone who will pay a lot more in lessons/training than I ever would. Probably more relevant, I don’t want to be at a lesson/training barn.

There are so many “new” costs today that aren’t even luxuries per se.

Even if you aren’t keeping up with the latest tech, having a smart phone/computer/internet are more or less non-negotiable.

How many people would willingly live without AC anymore?

Our electric bills are insane because just think how many electrical devices the average home has today that didn’t even exist a few decades ago.

And it’s kind of the same for horses.

How many people would board at a farm without an indoor? Without footing in the arena? Without insurance? Without a toilet? Without a vaccination protocol? Without a deworming protocol? Without shelter in the turnouts? Without electricity? Without running water? Because I’m not even that old and in my lifetime I’ve seen those things go from “optional” to “non-negotiable” in many cases. Yes, I can remember a time when it was perfectly normal for people to keep their horses in a field with a stream and carry buckets of water from the stream to the barn if they needed water inside. And of course there was no electricity, no footing, no rules. Not saying everyone lived like that, but you wouldn’t have blinked twice at such a setup. Now that type of setup would get the authorities called on you in some jurisdictions.

(Also, not judging all of us for embracing these things, lol, just pointing out they cost money)

[enjoytheride]

I hate to break it to you, but there’s still a massive portion of the country that still keeps horses exactly like that. Oddly their horses live to 30 and eat moldy corn stalks all winter and never ever need the vet.

[Texarkana]

@enjoytheride

I hate to break it to you, but there’s still a massive portion of the country that still keeps horses exactly like that. Oddly their horses live to 30 and eat moldy corn stalks all winter and never ever need the vet.

Oh I know. Believe me.

But there are also a large number of people here on COTH who have never heard of a barn without a flushing toilet, as evidenced by a recent thread.

[Amberley]

I’m just going to say that I’m a lot less likely to pee in a stall or take a quick washrack sponge bath now that everyone has cameras everywhere! I don’t blame young people for being more prudish about stall-peeing than we were at their age.

[Texarkana]

@Amberley

I’m just going to say that I’m a lot less likely to pee in a stall or take a quick washrack sponge bath now that everyone has cameras everywhere! I don’t blame young people for being more prudish about stall-peeing than we were at their age.

I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to pee in a stall, cameras or not.

But it was eye-opening to see a recent thread with people my age or older insisting they have never been to a largish stable that didn’t have a flushing toilet.

This is not an argument about toilets. I think we all prefer to do our business in one. I’m just pointing out that a lot of former luxuries are expected these days.

You could throw cameras into that discussion. I remember how revolutionary it was when we hard-wired a security camera feed for our foaling stalls. Now you would be unphased to learn that a barn of any size has cameras and would be shocked if a serious breeding farm didn’t have them.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@FitToBeTied

In my view the low value client is the one that uses a lot of the assets of the trainer (e.g., labor, facility, etc.) but contributes little in terms of profitability. I have been surprised when I have talked to trainers that they can’t tell me the economic value of a stall in their barn.

@enjoytheride -just to make clear, I wasn’t calling people like yourself a low-value client. I was calling myself one, the last year when I was riding, when I was taking a once-a-week lesson on a schoolmaster. Owning my own horse and eventually boarding and showing wasn’t in the cards for me (and I was upfront about that to the trainer) but I was certainly aware that those types of students are not high-value.

In fact, I do see another business model sometimes for part-time trainers, who have day jobs (or part-time jobs and spouses) with very small barns where they take on a few horses in training and have one of their own horses, and then spend most of the time traveling to barns, with clients who are mainly DIY like yourself, but just want an occasional lesson or tune-up. When I had an (affordable for me at the time) lease horse, I employed one of those trainers. She didn’t care if I showed, and it was very refreshing to learn in such a minimally pressured way.

[Demerara_Stables]

@enjoytheride

Perhaps a mindset change to clients becoming more self sufficient? Instead of to clients that can spend more?

@Renn_aissance

And then the flip side of that, if you have a boarding operation, is that the clients need to realize that the horse is going to be a dirtball pretty much all the time, so they need to have time to catch and clean up the horse if they want to ride.

Having clients that are more self-sufficient is both a great way to reduce costs and in my opinion, an important part of teaching both the current and next generations proper horsemanship. It sickens me to see walk trot kids showing up to the barn and not knowing how to tack a horse or even how to check their girth for tightness before mounting. Having horses on 24-hour turnout or even all day turnout and having clients that know how to go into a field of a few horses, catch their horse safely, and groom and tack on their own is key. Not employing a groom allows me to have a highly skilled (highly paid) barn manager that catches every little knick and scrape. Clients that are self-sufficient are the type of people that I want as clients - not the type that wants to show up to a spotless horse where all they do is mount up and go in for their jumping lesson.

[MHM]

@enjoytheride

Oddly their horses live to 30 and eat moldy corn stalks all winter and never ever need the vet.

I was just thinking of that kind of situation the other day.

But I was wondering if the horses actually never need the vet, or nobody notices they need the vet unless something goes terribly awry, and the horses just recover from the minor stuff without anyone noticing they ever had a problem.

[Texarkana]

@MHM

@enjoytheride

Oddly their horses live to 30 and eat moldy corn stalks all winter and never ever need the vet.

I was just thinking of that kind of situation the other day.

But I was wondering if the horses actually never need the vet, or nobody notices they need the vet unless something goes terribly awry, and the horses just recover from the minor stuff without anyone noticing they ever had a problem.

The latter.