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Interesting observation about girthing and my mare

Dressage
#1

I’m putting this out just in case it might help someone else. We have a mare that we have had for 8 years now. She has just not been able to break the training/first level barrier to actually succeed at first level and schooling second. Just a perennial training level horse, even tho she has excellent gaits and is very athletic. last year we tried western dressage just for kicks and giggles, and she TOTALLY ROCKED IT. Ok, got me thinking why is she good at that and not traditional dressage. She has always been unsteady in her head, but not in western bridle. Thru trial and error discovered that she likes port bits and no noseband, so got her a myler level 3 and a drop noseband. Head issues miraculously fixed. Trainer amazed.

Next up, and main reason for this post. Saddle. Mare was much freer moving in the western saddle. Daughter did not like mares saddle, and at same time I needed a new saddle for my lease horse. Ordered a thorowgood t8 to try. Trainer loved it for my position and lease horse liked it. I told DD to try it on picky mare. Trainer walks by and says WOW she is moving much better in that. Cue me now looking for one for DD. Found a used Kent and Master S series (same saddle just all leather). DD had a lesson with that yesterday and mare was great, coming under and starting to lift up in front which she has never done. Then for kicks she put on the T8 again and mare stopped coming thru. Trainer said she like the leather better. Then I realized, the K and M had the billets in the straight down position, and I had changed the billets on the T8 to be in the front girth position (acting like a foregirth). Mares current saddle has billets in fore girth configuration.

Conclusion: Mare does NOT LIKE foregirth and changing the billeting configuration completely noticibly immediately changed the way she moved@!!! So trainer has a horse that has just been sticky, doesn’t want to go forward etc. She called me this am and said “I left the front billet quite loose and only tightened up the back billet. Dobbin is moving forward voluntarily for the first time ever!!! I’m so glad you guys made the connection for your mare or I would never have considered this for Dobbin.”

So Have any of you noticed this with your horses? Saddle manufacturers are almost universally putting forward billets on their dressage saddles now. I wonder how many other horses would perform better without forward billets?

Can we have a discussion on this?

#2

Oh and unfortunately DS who also shows mare (she is technically his actually) prefers her other saddle but luckily it also has adjustable billets so I am moving them tonight to not be in forward girth position. I doubt he will even notice when he saddles her up, lol. He once got on for a lesson and hadn’t noticed that there werent’ any stirrups on his saddle. Trainer was like “hey aren’t you missing something?” and he was like “no, why?”. Cue major laughing on the sidelines.

2 Likes
#3

My old saddle fitter was always very reluctant to change a billet configuration to a point billet setup due to potential interference with the shoulder and restriction of movement. My saddle slipped forward almost all the time and we eventually fixed it with the right saddle pad/non slip pad and anatomic girth combination.

#4

Not sure what you mean by a ‘forward girth position’. Since most saddles have 3 billets and the standard configuration is to use the 1st and 3rd, do you mean that you are using the 1st and 2nd billets in the ‘forward girth position’?

#5

I don’t think I’ve owned a dressage saddle with three billets.

1 Like
#6

Interesting observation.

I like this article on billets: https://totalsaddlefit.com/2014/04/billet-design

#7

Slightly different issue… but similar ideas. My pony hates short girths. Found he went soooo much better in a jump saddle with long girth. Got analyzing (as an engineer is want to do) and realized that the dressage girths created a different type of pressure on his ribcage because of the way it is sprung. By using a long girth it simple holds the saddle down to the top of the rib without squeezing the rib cage down at the bottom. Next was to find a girth that would help the saddle stay back. Tried many types of shaped and anatomical girths. All were… eh… ok. On a hunch after watching Ingrid Klimke videos, I decided to try a cord girth. Voila! Happy horse. Front buckle/billet can be tightened deferentially from the back… which keeps the saddle in place… back being allowed to be longer allows more comfort through his barrel.

Has made me ponder how many horses in dressage saddles actually are uncomfortable in the short girths. No, its not like a western saddle which still allows for a “wrapping” around the horse feeling. So I always suggest that people try a jump saddle on any horse that is seeming balky, less than happy to go forward.

1 Like
#8

Ariel
That is a good article, short and to the point.

Most (if not all) dressage saddles come with 2 billets. Some (Thorowgood, Kent and Masters and Fairfax) have 2 billets but 3 attachment locations so you can move the point billet back to a middle position. This results in 2 straps hanging straight down side by side. This is what my mare is saying she prefers. I Would NEVER have known that if I hadn’t bought a saddle that had the option to move, and was already set up in the middle position. Her existing saddle has the moveable option (Hastilow, they have a working relationship with the above brands and use the same trees for many of their saddles), but was set up in the point billet position because she is a pear and we have been trying to keep saddle off her shoulders. Apparently we were just irritating her more, lol. It NEVER occurred to me to try moving the billet until we just happened to try the other saddle.

So I am happy that we learned something via accident, and hope someone else can benefit from this also.

#9

digihorse - that is interesting. I hadn’t thought about how the girth feels on their ribs, but the long vs short does make sense. Old dressage saddles had short girths (think ancient passiers). What was it about Ingrids video that made you think of a cord girth? What are benefits of cord girth?

I have ordered the TSF stretch tec short girth, it should be here today. It has elastic in the center over the chest. That is supposed to allow the ribcage to expand normally during breathing. Will see what miss sensitive thinks of it. Sounds like this girth is trying to address some of the points you made, in the absence of saddle makers going back to short billets. (I don’t want to cut mine off to experiment, not yet anyway).

#10

btw, I;m an engineer too:D

#11

[quote=“arab![](ansrock,post:8,topic:448084”]

Ariel
That is a good article, short and to the point.

Most (if not all) dressage saddles come with 2 billets. Some (Thorowgood, Kent and Masters and Fairfax) have 2 billets but 3 attachment locations so you can move the point billet back to a middle position. This results in 2 straps hanging straight down side by side.

[/quote]

My older model Custom saddle has the option of moving the front billed to either a point billet or straight billet, like the one shown in the photo. The back location is a V-billet as well.

[IMG]https://totalsaddlefit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Skitch2.jpg)

#12

Good to know another brand with built in flexibility!!!

#13

The new Stubbens come with long billets… that can be used as shorts :cool:

#14

I would guess any long billet saddle could be used with a long girth if the holes went up high enough. I always thought that the short girth was to keep the buckles out from under your leg.

2 Likes
#15

Universal billets :slight_smile: not a new concept

#16

My County has 3 billet positions as well, but mine is setup to use the rear two billet positions. My saddle fitter had a bunch of suggestions for pads, girths, etc. to help the slight forward creep (like 1-2 inches most of the time). She even suggested crossing the billets.

#17

What do you mean by this? I have 2 Stubbens and fortunately no real girthing issues but I’m curious what you mean.

#18

I suspect she means they are long billets with holes both at the bottom and up under the saddle flap. EG 2 distinct sets of holes to use with either a long or short girth. Now if you use a long girth, how exactly you are supposed to contain the long flapping ends of the billets is another question:confused:

#19

Tuck into a folded girth or girth cover…possibly smarter people have better ways haha

#20

If you have only straight billets and no v-billet, then if you poke holes high enough in them you can use a long girth. (you’ll probably want to trim the ends, though) My (2 antique) Passiers have (3) short billets. At one time I put long billets on because dressage saddles have long billets, right?? Well, saddle rode better with the shorts. I took off the longs and put the shorts back on.

I don’t think current horsie likes the long billets. I tried a few dressage saddles, all with long billets on them, because I’m looking for a dressage saddle. It kind of wigged him out when I tacked him up with a short girth. When I rode him later in his ‘normal’ saddle (Ansur Konclusion with (3) short billets, yeah, it’s a jump saddle, but it works for us), when I first girthed him up, I could only get the girth up part way. When I went to adjust it later, he wigged out. Once he realized it was the normal girth, I could girth him up normally. Maybe it reminded him too much of his unhappy western past.

Some critters just don’t like the short girths either.

1 Like

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