They have YH championship classes at the Festival of Champions in July. They have to achieve a minimum score and then they are invited to compete.
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Maybe I should be more clear. I don’t like sitting on a horse that moves with a lot of knee action It’s hard on the riders back and as it is harder to sit, it is also harder on the horse to be ridden by a rider. Posting trot was invented for a reason!
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It doesn’t have to be harder on the rider at all. If the horse is trained to use it’s back and abs properly so it doesn’t crash each foot to the ground, the knees don’t have a lot to do with rider comfort. Now, if you had said short, straight pasterns that would be another story.
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What about racking horses? Tons of knee action, very smooth gaits. It isn’t knee action that makes a jarring trot, IMO.
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It’s not knee action that makes it jarring. Tons of Iberians have a lot of knee action but are still easy to sit. That’s partially because they’re “leg” movers.
It’s the high action plus the dramatic amount of suspension in the gaits that makes them difficult to sit. Add some power into that equation and you’ve got a horse that really requires good strength, balance, and skill from the rider to sit to. Plus, they really move through their back and entire body.
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My understanding is that generally speaking, most horses have a genetic tendency to trot with a hollow and somewhat stiff back (watch foals and horses at liberty, also think Saddlebred for an extreme example under saddle). Correct dressage training develops the horse’s topline and supporting musculature such as abs (as Sasha pointed out), so it is able to carry itself and saddle and rider in a more “rounded” and through frame. Some breeds such as Iberians have been selectively bred to make this easier for the horse to achieve through proper training, although (again as Sasha mentioned), they tend to be leg movers – the back does not have a lot of swing or elasticity to it. But swing and elasticity in the back are desired traits in the dressage world, so educated warmblood breeders (particularly those breeding for dressage) try to be mindful of that when selecting breeding stock.
WB1 makes an interesting point about racking horses - they do have LOTS of knee action but are generally pretty easy to sit. But they do not go in a dressage frame (round, with a lifted back), plus the rack is a 4-beat gait that doesn’t produce the suspension that the 2-beat trot produces. And as CC mentions, suspension plus power makes sitting the trot on a big-moving dressage horse a whole different ballgame that requires a different skillset from the rider.
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Yes, and it’s creating a heck of a horse! Not necessarily in a bad way. Some of these movers are impressive and just seem to be born with insane amounts of swing and elasticity. Whereas some horses really need that “trained into them” for lack of a better term. Or maybe I should say, they need to be shown the way through training.
The smart breeder will breed the horse for the sport. When a horse naturally has these qualities, it’s well ahead of others that don’t. Have you (generally speaking here) ever ridden a horse with zero natural suspension and had to create it? It can be bloody hard! Or you can breed or buy a horse that already has it. Of course there are other factors to consider such a health, rideability, temperament as a whole and so on, but essentially a good breeder will breed the “tool” for the sport.
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As for young horse classes - back when I was traveling to Germany fairly regularly, I often visited young horse facilities, where youngsters are raised from weanling on up and started by young horse specialists at (usually) age 3. In some instances, they are very lightly started as two-year olds (such as colts being prepped for stallion selections). That didn’t mean they are backed at that age but instead have very short lunge sessions a few times a week in side-reins (and when I say a very short session, I am talking maybe 15-20 minutes). As the horse develops reliable acceptance of the side-reins, it may be free-lunged in side-reins for longer sessions. The purpose is not only to teach the horse mentally how to accept the bit and “go” in a rounded frame, but to also help it develop the musculature needed to carry itself in that frame - the “bridge” that allows the limbs full freedom of motion.
Young horse classes were basically Materiale classes. For 3-year olds going to their first shows, they were shown in the ring with several other youngsters. They all ride the same pattern (generally Follow the Leader). Being in the ring at the same time with other horses gives them more confidence being “out in the world.” And owners/trainers/buyers very often get a sense from the 3-y/o’s performance whether it is a good candidate for the FEI young horse classes.
Edited to add that USEF used to offer Materiale classes (and may still do - I am not involved with the show world anymore). But my experience from oh, maybe 10 years ago or so, was that the classes were not well supported by competitors. Very few people in the U.S. want to spend the time or money to compete a 3 y/o, so the Materiale classes tended to have maybe 1-2 entries (at least in my area).
Yeah, I remember reading or hearing about an interview some years back with Steffen Peters, in which he was asked how he gets such big gaits on his horses.
His reply? “I buy them that way.”
It made a friend of mine decide to not participate in a clinic with him because her horse was only a 6-year old and she felt it would be a waste of money to ride with a clinician whose response made her wonder if he has ever trained a horse up the levels himself.
That’s interesting.
There’s a few ways to look at it. Of course Steffen Peters is going to buy a horse with big gaits if thats what he knows will make him competitive and bring him the most success at competition. However, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t trained a horse up the levels himself. Did he mean bought a young horse with naturally big gaits though? Or a horse with that naturally has big gaits but someone also had already trained it to express those gaits under saddle and demonstrate its maximums, so to speak?
Also, generally speaking, you can buy a horse with big gaits but there’s still a lotttt of training to do to get to the level (or even close to the level) that Steffen Peters competes at.
I actually don’t know his history all that well, so I can’t say how many or which horses SP has brought along from young/green. I possibly would’ve still ridden with him anyway given the opportunity out of sheer curiosity, but I imagine it wouldn’t be cheap!
I do know some pros (some quite “big names”) that aren’t super keen or very skilled at training other riders on less experienced, green, or young horses. No idea if SP is one of them.
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Having watched several Steffen Peters’ clinics many years ago, unless he has changed, he is very kind, soft spoken and effective. If I had the $ and skill, I would certainly ride with him. When I saw him he didn’t belittle anyone. He did get on one horse and, after a few minutes, it looked like a completely different horse. I am pretty sure, in years past, he has trained up the levels. However, today, he doesn’t have to, as his sponsors will buy him a horse mostly trained. Nevertheless, he probably has young ones at home that need training.
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That’s what I figured.
Even if he is given a horse that is mostly trained it still takes a heck of a lot of skill to ride at his level. I also can’t blame him or his sponsors for simply buying what they feel is the most competitive and suitable mount.
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I agree. It’s the suspension and movement through the back and body that make a trot more difficult to sit. It is not just the knee action it self.
I do think a lot of dressage bred WBs are naturally built with short, powerful backs and loins that do move through the back in regards to whether the training (encouraging the use of back, etc.) vs. the breeding causes these large gaits. Foals are structurally different than a mature horse (obviously) and do move a great deal through the leg but as they develop this changes.
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I was looking at this stallion yesterday and it reminded me of this thread. This horse is shown with maybe 10-15 rides but he is much more polished and put together naturally than say a horse not bred for this specific purpose.
With the right trainers, a young horse can be quickly developed for 3/4 year old classes with minimal rides.
Ridden video starts at 2:20:
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I think that’s a complete misinterpretation of what he as saying. Why would he (or any other International level rider/trainer) ride a horse that didn’t start with the natural God-given advantage of excellent gaits?
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I totally agree that pretty much any international level rider/trainer is going to try to buy horses with great gaits.
And IIRC the general discussion was surrounding his training program to get a horse to top international levels and the topic of big gaits came up. And when he said he buys his horses like that, it made my friend uncertain he could help her with her young horse with nice but not “world-class” gaits. It may certainly have been a missed opportunity for her but at $800 per ride (this was some years ago, not sure what he charges these days), she elected to pass it up.
And my comment was certainly not intended as a dig at Steffen Peters - sorry if it came out that way.
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Lovely young stallion. It was interesting to watch the video again. I suspect that is a very, very good rider but even she was getting thrown pretty high in her post by the horse’s tremendous power and impulsion.
Bernstein was sold to the U.S. after that video was made. Looks like he is owned by GP rider Jessica Howington but I am not sure if she is developing him for sport or if Michael Bragdell or another of the Hilltop riders if bringing him along. Whoever it is, I hope they can keep his natural good gaits and not push him too fast.
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I think the rider in the video is being generous with the horse’s back but I agree, for sure a very good rider. I saw Jessica riding Bernstein in a clinic, I believe she may have competed him recently in the US as well. Anyway, I do believe she is involved with his development now that he is in the states. He seems to be coming along very well. He’s an exciting addition for US breeders, for sure. I am looking forward to his 2023 foal crop.
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Until he breaks, like Matine or Totilas.
Helgstrand/Jovian are alternates for the Danish World Champ team.
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And like thousands of low level, ammy owned horses who never get past Second Level but still don’t stay sound.
Or maybe he doesn’t break, and has a successful career until he’s retired in his late teens, like many other top international horses.
You never know with horses, do you?
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