Introducing Lateral Work

[alibi_18]

The OP is asking about when to introduce lateral work.

@pluvinel

Today, kids in suburbia do not grow up “organically” with animals. They show up at a riding stable, take a lesson and leave.

That has not much to do with the question. Kids growing organically with animals would probably not even know about « latetal work » … the horse might go sideways but not in any fashion way whereas the kids who would take lessons and leave actually would/could.

Back 50 years ago, people might have had a backyard horse. Kids were grew up in what is now termed “free range”…galloping on the back of a pony…without a helmet. That life has become much harder to impossible to find now.

Doesn’t mean their riding was any kind of good… again, I fail to see how this is related to the OP, except from the fact that the OP is actually doing exactly what you are saying has disapeared, having a horse on it’s own, yet not knowing what to do with it… which kinda backs up my claim - the need of a trainer.

[J-Lu]

@alibi_18

:rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with modern dressage… it has everything to do with more people having now access to horses, not taking lessons and wanting to train their horses on their own. It’s actually a misunderstanding of what dressage is, even competition dressage.

Horses started by good trainers all do leg yield and lateral work from the get going. No horse could do the FEI 5 yrs old test without having a grasp on lateral work.
And leg yield is asked at 1st level… so it should be technically mastered pretty soon

It’s only riders who are learning about lateral work who don’t do them. It’s also people who believe horses shouldn’t be trained/ridden before they’re 4-5-6 yrs old who don’t do them.

I see a lot of BNT/R and they truly « use » their horses at home. Of course at shows you see them pampered and protected and all… that doesn’t mean they are not being « used » at home - hacking out, opening/closing gates, -toilet paper challenge-, etc.

I disagree. Quite a few dressage trainers are not aiming their horses for the young horse competition at 5 and above because they want a sound 12 year old. Quite a few good trainers know that not every talented youngster has the mind for the 5 year old competitions. You seem to be conflating all riders and horses with “what competion trainers do to produce a FEI 5 year old”. NOT the same thing. “It’s only riders who are learning about lateral work who don’t do them”? Are you sure?

I’m sure the OP isn’t a BNT and aiming her horse for the FEI 5 year old test, so lets keep this in perspective.

[Slaptail]

I’m learning low level dressage at a mostly H/J barn. I’ve schooled LY/SI, turn on the forehand/haunches and a tiny bit of travers/renvers, I’m just wondering how difficult these things are for the horse, and where/when they are introduced.

Again, I’m not suggesting that they are only a thing to school for the test. If SI is “harder” for the horse than leg yield, wouldn’t it make sense to start with leg yield and introduce SI when the horse is more balanced?

I’m asking what amount of balance the horse needs for these things. When I mentioned first level, I was talking about what you might think of if you think “first level balance,” and building off of that, a horse in first level is strong enough to perform correct leg yields.

[alibi_18]

@J-Lu

I disagree. Quite a few dressage trainers are not aiming their horses for the young horse competition at 5 and above because they want a sound 12 year old. Quite a few good trainers know that not every talented youngster has the mind for the 5 year old competitions. You seem to be conflating all riders and horses with “what competition trainers do to produce a FEI 5 year old”. NOT the same thing. “It’s only riders who are learning about lateral work who don’t do them”? Are you sure?

I’m sure the OP isn’t a BNT and aiming her horse for the FEI 5 year old test, so lets keep this in perspective.

You missed the point.
Especially the one about First level.

I was replying to Pluvinel who suggested that lateral work was no longer introduced at an early age in horse training because of people competing instead of « using » horses in different contexts.

[eightpondfarm]

My rideable horses are used on our sheep/cattle farm. Now they are going to have the benefit of my schooling. i move a horse with my body to unlatch and move though and close gates. I also move a horse sidewaysish, turning on the fore only, forward, turn 1/4 to the left on the rear… to get him(or her) and me both safely through trees in deep (no trails) woods when moving my sheep herd from one pasture to another. All my horses and mules are easily moved ‘laterally’. I don’t horse their mouths either, i pretty much use a loose rein,snaffle bits. I think my biggest hugest problem with dressage is going to be subtly. Softness comes to me pretty naturally, with being a sympatico, empathetic rider. I do have large leg movements (my ankle pressure on their shoulder/heel along their flank or even hip, and calf pressure to their mid-side). My legs are all OVER a horse! I suppose i could substitute a whip to start them transitioning over to subtle leg cues??

[Scribbler]

@eightpondfarm

My rideable horses are used on our sheep/cattle farm. Now they are going to have the benefit of my schooling. i move a horse with my body to unlatch and move though and close gates. I also move a horse sidewaysish, turning on the fore only, forward, turn 1/4 to the left on the rear… to get him(or her) and me both safely through trees in deep (no trails) woods when moving my sheep herd from one pasture to another. All my horses and mules are easily moved ‘laterally’. I don’t horse their mouths either, i pretty much use a loose rein,snaffle bits. I think my biggest hugest problem with dressage is going to be subtly. Softness comes to me pretty naturally, with being a sympatico, empathetic rider. I do have large leg movements (my ankle pressure on their shoulder/heel along their flank or even hip, and calf pressure to their mid-side). My legs are all OVER a horse! I suppose i could substitute a whip to start them transitioning over to subtle leg cues??

The big difference between dressage lateral work and pragmatic outdoors cowboy lateral work is precision in direction of bend and balance.

I watched a girl once doing groundwork getting her horse to sidepass along a pole on the ground. Sometimes he was bent away from the direction of movement (shoulder in). Sometimes he was straight. Sometimes he was bent towards the direction of movement (half pass). She was paying no attention to this. As an observer it was clear he found the task easiest in “shoulder in” position, as I would expect. See my post above about shoulder in versus half pass.

The other aspect is that horses left to their own devices usually pivot on a mid point that is neither true turn on haunches or turn on forehand. Both dressage and reining require that the two moves be clearly distingushed.

All horses can do basic lateral moves. But the moves need to be precise and correct to build up the right muscles and balance.

When I’m opening gates I don’t worry about this too much. I just get 'er done!

[outerbanks77]

@Slaptail

I’m learning low level dressage at a mostly H/J barn. I’ve schooled LY/SI, turn on the forehand/haunches and a tiny bit of travers/renvers, I’m just wondering how difficult these things are for the horse, and where/when they are introduced.

Again, I’m not suggesting that they are only a thing to school for the test. If SI is “harder” for the horse than leg yield, wouldn’t it make sense to start with leg yield and introduce SI when the horse is more balanced?

I’m asking what amount of balance the horse needs for these things. When I mentioned first level, I was talking about what you might think of if you think “first level balance,” and building off of that, a horse in first level is strong enough to perform correct leg yields.

Generally, bending in the direction of travel is more difficult than bending away from the direction of travel. So LY (no real bend) < Shoulder In < Renvers/Travers < Half Pass in level of difficulty, so yes, they will usually build on each other in this order (and TOF is normally easier than TOH, which is collecting and requires more of the hind legs).

[Samantha37]

I use lateral work to get a horse to move better and more correctly through his body - specifically leg yields all over the place. I’ve touched a little bit of SI with him, but that is going to have to wait until he makes a more honest connection in the bridle more consistently.

Renvers/travers/half pass can be quite difficult for older horses who are stiff (it was really hard for my arthritic OTTB to learn to bend his body that way) so I don’t know that I would try any of that. But certainly leg yields, turn on haunches (I don’t really utilize TOTFH) and some shoulder in would be good for your horse.

[Scribbler]

@Samantha37

I use lateral work to get a horse to move better and more correctly through his body - specifically leg yields all over the place. I’ve touched a little bit of SI with him, but that is going to have to wait until he makes a more honest connection in the bridle more consistently.

Renvers/travers/half pass can be quite difficult for older horses who are stiff (it was really hard for my arthritic OTTB to learn to bend his body that way) so I don’t know that I would try any of that. But certainly leg yields, turn on haunches (I don’t really utilize TOTFH) and some shoulder in would be good for your horse.

I agree, they can mostly all do leg yield and the related moves (bent away from direction of movement) at a walk. Trot shoulder in is much more challenging than walk for some horses. You can do them with a low neck and even on light contact.

The bend towards movement moves are much harder for most horses and come later.

I don’t see much value in drilling turn on the forehand either. What you really want long term is more weight going to the hind end so a few steps of turn in haunches or square turns or 90 of walk pirouette are great for that understanding that it’s not a Western spin with planted hind legs.

[J-Lu]

@Samantha37

I use lateral work to get a horse to move better and more correctly through his body - specifically leg yields all over the place. I’ve touched a little bit of SI with him, but that is going to have to wait until he makes a more honest connection in the bridle more consistently.

I agree. I did a training ride on a OTTB who was like Gumby today (I think fresh off the track). And like an OTTB recently off the track, he pushed into contact instead of yielding to it (meaning, my legs and seat). I taught him to leg yield (not sure what lateral work he had since being off the track) and used my weight to do shoulder-fore. He complied easily at the walk but had to think about it at the trot. The lateral work helped him relax his body and bring his head down, which he wants to carry in the air. I think this was the first time anyone asked him to use himself other that the gallop at the race track. He was in and out of compliance but we made progress and was most relaxed when he knew he could bend and move his feet on different tracks rather than being stiff as a board and just moving forward. In one ride, he took to the lateral work quite well to just relax, which is the point of the work.