Several years ago I purchased a new horse with a trainer who was new to me. Trainer insisted that I continue doing an exercise which involved jumping outside of the arena and cantering back into the arena, with a horse turned out in a pasture adjacent to the area outside the arena running. I could feel my horse becoming more agitated and anxious each time we did the exercise, and I asked my trainer if I could opt out of the outside of the arena part of the course. She said no, the horse bucked me off (hindquarters over my head kind of buck), and I was injured fairly seriously. Since the horse was new to me, it took me a long time to learn to trust him again. Lesson learned, if trainer doesn’t respect my limits, trainer isn’t the right trainer for me.
These are the kind of situations where we need to explain in the moment and then quit for the day.
Easier seen in hindsight.
But in this case, the ideal response would be to ride up to trainer and halt. Say " I can feel this horse is getting agitated to the point this exercise is not productive right now. I don’t think it’s useful raising his anxiety level like this. The loose horse is not helping. I think we need to move on from this now. Let’s work on something to calm him down."
If the trainer said no, I would say either well perhaps you can ride him in this exercise and see how he feels? Or OK let’s just end the lesson now, I will.do some quiet flat work to get his head back in the game, and see you next week. Hopefully the loose horse won’t be there next week.
In other words there are ways to communicate to your coach that you are an active participant in the horse training process and have a valid point of view even if it differs from the coach. You aren’t being lazy or nervous but actually are considering the effect on the horse.
I’m a little surprised by the people who are taking the OP to task and blaming her for her injury during a lesson or for being taken aback by being physically assaulted by a crop during the lesson, even if it wasn’t hard enough to do any physical harm.
I understand that some riding instructors are frustrated by wussy, unfit students (and I say that as a wussy student who is not terribly athletic), but ultimately, the student has autonomy over her body (and horse, if it’s hers) and always has and should have the prerogative to refuse. Now, of course the instructor also has the right to sit down after a few lessons and say, “I don’t think I can teach you if you repeatedly refuse appropriate exercises,” or “I feel I am giving the same lesson over and over again and you don’t seem to listen, it’s time I let you go.” But I sometimes feel that instructors are loathe to lose a student, so instead they resort to temper tantrums and psychological pressure in the hopes that will scare the student into just going along. Even if an instructor feels an exercise is easy, it’s not going to be effective if the student is scared and not confident. Not all riders are in horses for thrill-seeking. (Some are, of course, and that’s okay, too, but you can’t make someone into something they don’t want to be.)
Of course, we don’t have both sides of the stories but I don’t think it’s really fair to blame the owner or rider if the trainer has been behaving in shady ways (overusing a horse in a lesson program, not being honest about commissions and fees). Some trainers are very opaque about such things, and how many times have people had sticker shock and come to complain here even after they tried to do their due diligence, sitting down and communicating with the trainer about fees and bills?
Another way to look at it, however, is that I do think some people aren’t terribly good about evaluating how and when to trust people. I have the opposite problem–I’m naturally suspicious, but I have some friends who 100% always assume the best of everyone. Unfortunately, even as a casual rider and owner in the horse business, that is just not an attitude you can have without getting burned.
I do agree that it’s unfair to blame the high-end barn for having an exclusive clientele or catering to higher-end customers, though, in that case it’s just “it is what it is.” I’m also unclear why the nice horse was sold, simply because the barn was shady about how many times a week they were using him in lessons and arguing about how much was owed on board; surely just leaving with the horse would have been the best solution?
OP, in my more long-winded way, though, I’m going to agree with those who said to put the brakes on horse ownership for a long, long time. Find a community of equestrians and a barn and take the time to see who you can really trust. Find an instructor who works with your needs and budget. Since you are no longer leasing or paying board, use that money to lesson more than once a week, if time allows. Get some more education about horse buying and selling so you can be a more involved and hands-on participant if you do decide to buy or lease a horse again.
8 barns?!? That’s a lot of places to have issues with. Especially in the Los Angeles area, where I hear there is quite a horse scene. Perhaps some inflection is in order. There is one common denominating factor, which is yourself.
Maybe you aren’t communicating your needs before entering a program. I would lay it all out there, expectations, what you won’t be okay with, etc. Good luck OP, I am sure there is somewhere for you! You just haven’t found it yet.
I mean let’s face it, there’s scads of bad trainers out there. I mean there’s bad lawyers and bad nurses and bad doctors, and those people have to undergo years of mandatory training and external certification, and there’s still bad ones.
Riding trainers? I can hang out a shingle tomorrow. I would suck! But I bet some people would blame the riders.
Yeah, OP’s had problems at 8 barns in a row. Yes, that points to OP probably having a hand in her string of bad experiences - but most of those were not potentially-bad/ dangerous trainer issues. Really only 2, the concussion one and the crop one. The rest were shenanigans around horse buying, mismatches in terms of barn and budget, stuff like that.
I’m based in LA, and have had 3 HJ trainers/boarded at 3 different barns before deciding to retire my horse. At all 3 of these barns I had negative experiences either because of dishonesty on the trainer’s part, blatant prioritization of high-end clients, and/or laziness and lack of work ethic from the trainer that was apparent in both my and other clients’ horses. Although it would be very easy for me to point the finger at them, when I’ve looked back in each situation there were things I noticed either during visits to the barn before moving there, or early on as a client and said nothing.
I’m in no way saying that each of these negative experiences falls on you, but how much research are you doing before going there? What questions are you asking? How many lesson are you watching? Does your trainer friend have any insight/opinion on any of these barns? From experience I can tell you it’s very easy to get caught up in the way a program is sold, how nice a property is, or a barn’s show record. But at some point you need to be able to look past all of that and be able to pick some of these places apart. What kind of environment are you even looking for? What type of trainer do you want, and what philosophies are important to you?
I retired my horse at 12 partially because of her physical issues, and partially because I was so jaded from my negative experiences, and didn’t think I could trust anyone. I switched disciplines and just took lessons at a 4th barn and had a really great experience. As others have already mentioned…maybe it’s time to stop thinking so much about buying a horse, and just focus on finding a solid lesson program.
Also, feel free to DM me if you feel comfortable sharing barn names you’ve been to. I can try to offer some other suggestions.
Ok for the last time nobody here is advocating for trainers physically assaulting unsuspecting clients with a crop. Im kind of shocked that’s how so many people are reading the situation. When I said “my trainer would probably beat me with a crop too” I was KIDDING. It’s a figure of speech. Obviously I am firmly against beating anyone with a crop in a literal sense. I can’t believe I have to spell this out.
I also really REALLY doubt that’s what OP’s trainer was doing. I think the trainer was probably just being playful and giving OP a hard time for not completing the exercise. Which yea, if that sort of thing really makes OP that uncomfortable, then she should leave but if OP is getting offended over every single little thing that any trainer ever does, she shouldn’t be shocked when she’s gone through eight trainers.
No. No one has said that the OP is directly responsible for being hurt or that it’s OK for a student to be “physically assaulted” during a lesson. Rather, some of us have suggested, after hearing the OP’s tales of woe from eight consecutive experiences at 7 different stables, that she might be acting in ways that increase the probability of having a bad experience.
Some of us, I think, are also having a hard time believing that a trainer truly “assaulted” a student with a crop and that the OP is accurately representing what happened and the tone in which the interaction occurred.
many questions here, but coming from dressage-land I say maybe switch disciplines. There are so many ways to have fun and enjoy horses, if the HJ barns in your area are not cutting it, try something else. Maybe a more relaxed, less competitive barn is a better way to go.
Questions are meant to spark introspection.
How did you select each barn? How did you evaluate if the barn was a good fit for you?
What is driving your desire purchase a horse soon after arriving at a new barn, as opposed to leasing or taking lessons?
There’s friction in all relationships at some point. Sometimes we choose to work through the friction, other times we choose to leave.
Barn 2: I’m really sorry for your accident. It’s a testament to your grit and love of horses to continue riding - kudos! I’ve never seen a trainer ask a student to do something the TRAINER didn’t think the student was capable of. I’ve seen trainers ask students to do things the STUDENT didn’t think they were capable of.
Barn 3: Was the incident with the crop was meant in jest?
Barn 5: Did you notice you said your friend determined the horse was a mismatch? How did YOU feel about the horse?
Barn 8 - Not listening to budget is common…trainers want you to have the best horse possible for several reasons. They want YOU to be happy and successful. They have to ride the horse too. And if you eventually decide to sell, it’s easier to sell a nice horse than a not-as-nice horse. (Also trainers want a higher commission, of course.)
I feel like this isn’t a barn issue. With 8 (?), the OP skipped some numbers, barns and a friend who is trainer? Why on earth is the OP struggling like this with a friend who’s a pro in the area?
What a fascinating discussion.
Some of the issues described, as well as the number of posts supporting or at least excusing some of that behavior, are an indication to me that the cruddy underbelly of HJ-land really hasn’t changed much since I left it for another discipline some years ago.
I haven’t personally had all those awful things happen to me, but I have seen plenty of that kind of thing happen to others around me. Enough to know how common a lot of the ugly stuff is, particularly when it comes to horse sales. In one particularly memorable situation though, the guy I was training with when I got cancer said, hey don’t worry about paying for training while you are going through chemo. Just pay board, and when you are ready to come back and start riding again, we’ll pick up where we left off. Wow, I thought. What a nice guy. Except that he actually LEASED my nice made hunter to another customer - so he was not only still getting paid for training, but also getting TWO board checks every month. It was an ugly situation when I showed up to visit my horse one day to find his lease person getting ready for her lesson. She had been told it was a sale horse owned by the trainer. Didn’t end well.
OP, there are decent trainers out there and for whatever it’s worth, you absolutely have the right to determine the kind of program that works best for you. Most of us AAs are not going to the Olympics and let’s face it, many have no ambitions beyond a local 2’6" class - for that you do not need to be driven like a sled dog or berated by your professional to do anything you aren’t comfortable doing. However, with that comes the understanding and acceptance that the less you do or push yourself, of course the slower you progress. If you are OK with that, and you are up front about your goals, limitations etc then any trainer that takes your money should be OK with it too.
Yes, it actually happened. I know no one wants to believe it, because it’s so out there, but it did happen.
If you re-read my post: my trainer friend moved 4 hours away. If she were still here, I would be training with her.
Apologies for going a different direction but WOW! I had a trainer I thought was low as they get when she, without my knowing, advertised my horse for sale (we never had any discussion about this even being an option), allowed many people to come ride and try her, found a buyer, settled on a price THEN tried earnestly to convince me to sell her so she’d make a hefty commission fee. I was 15, and said it was a hard no, but holy cow - the gumption some of these HJ trainers have!
OP, I agree with what many are telling you. I think it would be best to evaluate your goals, your “must haves”, and your hard no’s. Maybe really get to know the things you can live with or without. Nothing is going to be perfect. However, you now know so many things that are definite passes, what might be able to be handled better with a conversation, and what you must have. Network with folks different barns, talk to trainers while being VERY upfront with your goals, what you’re looking for, and have an open mind. Good luck!!
This is a great idea- I am just unsure of where to find a smaller barn in my area (land isn’t cheap out here so most people don’t have horses on their property), and I am generally untrustworthy of how people represent their horses. I’ve seen so many people claim their horse is “so safe that I’d put my grandma on it!” and then the horse spooks and throws a kid on their first canter around the ring.
This. Don’t try to buy a a horse right away. Take some lessons and see if you want to ride/show with the barn. Ask for references from your trainer friend. None of those situations are okay. Lots of shady trainers out there but you should be able to find one that is a good match.
