“It’s not playful if you say you don’t like it, and yet it continues.”
My response was that this statement misrepresented what happened, as the OP did not stick around to see if it continued after she said she didn’t like it.
Your quote of the OP simply confirms what I said. The OP left the barn after sending an email of complaint. She did not, as far as she indicated, give the barn any opportunity to make amends (if they were inclined to do so) and the actions certainly did not continue after the OP complained, as Salty implied, since the OP left immediately after the initial incident.
It’s one thing to use the whip as an extension of your arm to, say, point to a spot on the rider’s back (i.e. between the shoulder blades) that they don’t realize they are holding tension. To just smack someone on the bum because they needed a walk break provides zero instruction or information. That kind of “playfulness” is only “playful” with long-time friends. It is wildly inappropriate to treat any client in such a manner, much less a new(er) client. It really doesn’t matter if OP never said she didn’t like it in person, it should never have happened in the first place. I would not have given that trainer a chance to make amends, either. I prefer my professionals to actually be professional.
No, the crop thing is black and white, not acceptable, and OP dealt with that one appropriately enough by leaving. Some of the other incidents have a good bit of grey and think most are responding to those with suggestions,
It doesn’t take a bully long to figure out who they can bully and who they can’t. Which isn’t to say it’s the victim’s fault, but only that some are never going to get bullied, while others just aren’t as good at making it clear enough soon enough.
OP-I think we should bring this back to you and off the crop thing. Everybody has a different idea of what their ideal trainer is. Some clearly prefer a task master while others like more of a therapist type, others maybe a "just the facts"type, etc. The point here is that you have clearly had some duds and need to suss out what you really want for your relationship with horses. If jumping and concussions freak you out(reasonable thing to freak out about, btw) then maybe look to other disciplines like previous posters have suggested. I still think you must have picked up some barn buddies along the way that could also counsel you. Ask them for their thoughts-I have yet to meet a horse person that won’t delight in being asked that very question! Good luck!
What about trying a discipline that tends to be support a bit more rider/owner independence? Most of the h/j programs I have been a part of in any way (or have been told about by close friends) expect the type of relationship where the trainer is the one calling a lot of the shots. I don’t say this to say this is a bad or wrong thing as many riders I know are very happy in this type of program and many of them make very quick progress in terms of their riding abilities and competitiveness. However, some people, myself included, are happier when a more independent approach is expected and encouraged.
For an example citing disciplines I am familiar with, barns that focus on trail riding, eventing, and foxhunting have seemed to focus on finding horses that the owner will be comfortable and happy handling on a day to day basis even if they won’t necessarily be the winners in the show ring.
OP didn’t mention a level of riding but being as it involved lessons etc, I will assume ( and accept being wrong) that we are not talking about a rider about to show at the A levels and more likely a rider jumping 2’6 and under. OP may correct me.
That being so, I’m guessing that a free lease type situation might be available. There are lots of solid 2’6ers out there with owners who need to keep them in work while they can’t. They aren’t necessarily showy types but nice rides.
Once you had the nice horse, why not go back to barn 5 with him once you found he was being overused by lesson program? Sadly, unless you are strict about terms, these things happen at everything from lesson mills to AA show barns. Once you arrange to lease your horse back to the school program it is on you as the owner to verify what is being done with him. Watch social media of kids who lesson at the barn, show up unannounced, ask fellow clients if they’ve seen your horse out excessively.
You need to really look at what you want to do and how much chance you have to do it. Realistically, unless you are an amazing rider, show at A shows on a super tight budget is unlikely. If you have a big budget, doors will open, even if you are an average rider. Sorry, but it’s true. If some local shows while improving your skills is in line with the goals, look for a solid local barn, maybe not fancy but with a good reputation for basics.
This is how it is where I live now in a non horsey, not rich part of the US. The “trainers” are jokes all but one, who is ok but as expensive as if she went to the Olympics (she did not) and her business partner is very dishonest and unpleasant.
OP- why don’t you just buy or lease a nice calm older horse and go for nice rides outside and maybe work a little in the ring by yourself. Take some lessons from different people when you feel you want to. I think you will be much happier. Horses do not require you to be under the supervision of a coach at all moments, no matter what people in the US think.
Many people I know who are successful in business and such do not show jumpers or hunters any longer in the US because they do not wish to spend time around the unprofessional trainers and low environment of the barns and I am one of them. I do ride but not with that type of trainer. I find the type of relationship they try to make quite distasteful, I am not a child now for a long time I do not wish to ever be spoken to like one. I am a Masters swimmer too and do mounted archery and also belong to a running club and have no problems in those sports with disrespect or bad finances so it is not “just me” as others here have said. It is the environment of the sport here.
And how will it ever change so long as there are clients like the OP who claim to have been assaulted yet filed no compliant with either law enforcement or SafeSport? If it truly happened, why not do something about it rather than enable it? And if it was truly the assistant, then why not report this to the head trainer and ask for lessons to be changed, all the while reminding said trainer that assault with a crop is a SafeSport violation? Shouldn’t this be reported??? We all know about it now and are required to report if OP provides the name.
As for the laundry list of issues from the OP, it’s timely for me. I’m in communication with a former barn mate who is “always being taken advantage of.” The trainer “always puts her child last.” The trainer “never understands her child’s needs.” 12 other clients are happy, yet this one always has a reason to complain or is always being taken advantage of. She moved her child to a new barn and in LESS THAN A WEEK is already complaining about the new trainer. Mom is histrionic and constantly talking about her personal issues with middle child syndrome and wanting to fix every issue the child encounters in life. Every time the child struggles mom wants to fix it. I feel for the kid. She will grow up to be a nomadic client who moves around and is never happy, and nothing will ever be her fault.
I wish for every client’s “very shady trainer” story that we could hear the other side. I’ve had some dust ups over my years but I can happily say that I could still go up to every trainer and give them a hug if I saw them. I may not be able to train with them anymore for whatever reason, but I’ve always understood my part in each situation and owned it and when someone has tried to take advantage I have always documented it well and stood my ground. Heck, I got kicked out of a barn, the trainer gave me my lease horse, I went to the trainer’s ex husbsnd’s ex girlfriend’s barn (if you can follow that you get a cookie) AND am still on good terms with all of them! And I got a free horse! And got invited back… We are all adults and we should be able to act like one and own our part. We’re also human and we are all going to make mistakes, and we need to be held accountable, client and trainer alike.
And wow I think 8 instances for the OP in 6 years is A LOT. In 8 instances the one common denominator is the OP.
Well, SS is pretty new so that has not always been an option, but you’d have to ask the OP whether they would consider reporting it. Having seen the behavior of many people who’ve attacked some of those who have reported improper conduct, though, I’d certainly have sympathy for the OP if they decided not to.
Of course there are both great and shady people on both the professional and client sides of the equation, and a simple search here will yield lots of examples of both. This is probably to be expected when you have a largely unregulated industry with few if any meaningful certifications, standards or licensure - as well as a lot of money changing hands.
For the record I am on excellent terms with all of the professionals that I have trained with, with the exception of the one who leased my horse without my knowledge or permission while I was going through cancer treatment. However, I have certainly seen a pretty considerable difference in how some clients were treated vs. others; this is often but not always based on economics. It sounds like your “former barn mate” has challenges that would be problematic in most places. I don’t know the OP and have no idea how much, if any, fault lies with them in any of the scenarios they’ve posted about, but a lot of the practices they’ve mentioned are common ones in the industry and unfortunately they do create a lot of drama.
I am appalled and sad that anyone thinks it’s all right to hit someone with a crop. And to call it “playful” is sickening, especially when the person who called it playful based it on absolutely nothing but conjecture.
It is not at all acceptable. People making excuses are crazy. Horses are not a cult you do not have to accept behavior you DO NOT LIKE even if others do. People can have preferences and rules for how they conduct business and social life, that is normal and fine.
If a trainer struck me when I was on a horse I would be very tempted to kick them very hard in their teeth with my boot. Is that ok because I feel it is? No. It would be illegal and I might be sued. The trainer striking a client is not OK just because someone on the internet believes it to be because once a trainer was also mean to them. It is illegal and stupid, it means the business could be sued and lost. That person has poor judgement and is not qualified to be a coach.
