I don’t think it helped that Gato del Sol was a longshot for the Derby and didn’t do much else either.
W: Thanks for posting the very cute photo! ! !
T: I’ll send your friend an email…thanks for letting me know about “Four Alarmer”…
UPDATE: we’ve already traded many emails… i saw the photo of her DTA – so much potential. Thanks for putting us in touch. I feel like I met a new friend 
Northern Dancer was a bull (and not a Holy Bull either 
) and Scarlet Ibis, he also is a beast. His children and N. Dancer’s children that we had were all tough, all rough and some, down right mean! But awesome runners.
On checking I find Olden Times is her dam’s grandsire so it’s closer then I thought, and it’s Prove It not Round Table but another generation back. Neither would have much influence…although she is a TB mare all the way and requires some negotiation 
You ever wonder if old Rex could get away with that stuff or if Misch Tenney would be much in demand today?
They ran farrier and jockey “schools” at this factory farm to get “students” to pay for doing all the barn work…Huck Finn indeed.
Like Juliab, I’m interested in knowing what Forest Wildcat’s temperament is like–I have a filly who is his granddaughter.
Yes, some TB lines are “known for being belligerent”, or hot, or whatever. But they are “known for” because people are looking for a reason/excuse for the horse’s temperament.
For every “hot” line, you will find plenty of laid back relaxed horses in that line too.
You can’t give all the credit to the mares either.
Look at this pedigree
Spy Illusion
Nasrullah and Princequillo twice each, plus another dose of Nearco through Royal Charger. A recipe for a “hot horse”.
But he is a complete pussy cat. In fact, a bit of a wimp. I can (and have) put a six year old on him without a leading rein.
And before you say that “the hot blood is diluted by the other horses in the pedigree”, I will tell you that his FULL SISTER is the absolute epitome of the reputation. Hot, opinionated, agressive, talented. But a great competition partner once she is “on your side”.
So yes, some sire lined have a “reputation”. And SOME of their descendants live up to it. But SOME of there descendents (even with IDENTICAL bloodlines) are nothing like that at all.
So if you see one of the “horses with a reputation” in the pedigree, it is worth LOOKING at the temperament side. But don’t EXPECT it.
Same with conformation. If I see Mr.P close up, I am going to look to see IF there is a crooked front leg. But there are plenty of Mr. P’s out there with perfect front legs.
I handled one of the last sons of Olden Times for years. Had an Olden Times granddaughter as well. You still see them in the Full Pocket line, but that’s about it.
Olden Times was one tough old buzzard, but a horse had to be tough to survive under the Rex Ellsworth program.
I helped break a King’s Bishop filly, Promised Mate. IMO, she was the sweetest, prettiest, nicest moving of the 40-horse crop. One of the other riders said of her “the lights are on, but nobody’s home.” I could never figure out where she was coming from.
Promised Mate turned out to be a stakes runner and stakes producer. I was really proud of her.
BTW-- the toughest horses in that barn were all by Sauce Boat (Key to the Mint).
FLAbreds: Wasn’t Artax the horse that got bumped by the drunk spectator at the Preakness a few years back? I remember the news coverage of some drunk person who got on course during the race and somehow managed to not get killed. I thought the horse involved in the bumping incident was Artax.
I remember thinking, what a cool horse to have been able to deal with such a freak occurance…
Am I right?
If I have my wits together…
But it’s still a brain workout…the habbits of a quarter century are hard to break! 
I think a lot of people forget, though, that part of being able to “do or die” at the track involves a steadiness and ability to focus on the job despite a helluva lot of heavy-duty distractions that are bound to make a lot of even the best bred ones crack. T.J. Kelly used to have his babies broken at a farm with fog-covered cattle lowing in a canal at the first turn, and a wrecking yard complete with cranes swinging around and dropping entire cars on the backside. He liked this farm precisely because of these spook factories, figuring it was the best way to prepare his babies so they wouldn’t have nervous breakdowns when they reached the track-- which, of course, a lot of them did anyway.
This is why buying OTTB’s for the shows has to be a pretty selective process-- and why the ones who come out of racing both mentally and physically sound are gems to be cherished (and reproduced if at all possible) indeed!
That being said: I can’t help but wonder whether the problems with that fancy horse may have come from the Mr. P rather than the Bid side: case in point: the groom at Claiborne told me that Conquistador Cielo was the stupidest horse he’d ever handled.
There are, however, a lot of Mr. P.'s doing well at the shows-- guess there are just too many factors to make establishing causality anything better than more or less educated guesswork.
Pretty sorry state: I’m guessing that I’m guessing 
Originally posted by DMK:
Olden Times was one tough old buzzard, but a horse had to be tough to survive under the Rex Ellsworth program.
Oh, jesh…forgot about that-which is a good thing. Never forget Derby winning Swaps standing on a pile of sh*t or the dead foals in the field for days 
Yes, he was Einar. I would go out to the tracks and watch him run about once a week. He usually ran last which it why my father gave him to me when he was eight. He was doing well in some very long races held either at Hawthorn or Sportsman. They just didn’t get them long enough for him to wear all the other horses out.
Furthermore, Nasrullah’s son, Nashua, was perhaps THE single most famous for his toughness/stubborness (e.g. some days he wouldn’t even leave the gate).
I have a nearly 29-year-old Nashua granddaughter who has been very opinionated since the day we met 21 years ago (and before that as well, according to her previous owner!) I wouldn’t trade her for the world.
Bold Ruler? Well, I’ve had 3 geldings (Bold Ruler 2/3 generation) and all must’ve been oddballs! Mine all had a strong will and were definately beligerant in training.
Isn’t Tabasco Cat a grandson of Sauce Boat?
He was supposed to be hell and a half.
What about Mr Prospector horses? I have had quite a few and they all seem so mellow.
fish, I had a Silent Cal son (Hold Your Peace, Speak John) who was an absolute angel. Had the best manners on the planet. That’s not to say he was an easy ride. He could be very strong, but that had a lot more to do with the fact he was good at his first job (race horse) and nobody consulted him on the career change (hunter). But not a dirtyl bone in his body.
Had a hard peek at the fences though.
If I had stumbled on to him later in life when I was a better rider, he easily would have been the best horse I ever owned. But he was too sensitive to take be lied to. And I lied a lot back then. (No, leave here… no there… no… yes… no) 
I’ve got one like that. A cute kind eyed puppy dog with an I love people playful attitude and lovely considerate ground manners. Then you get in the saddle and this guy is unbridled, do not let your guard down tireless energy. Duh, I guess I should have seen it coming with his track record, he won stakes races, broke a record and won 295k…instead I thought…yay he trys hard and he’s talented and he’s sound, he’s adorable…His sire is Sword Dance. At least he likes to jump. He’s also studdish, although he’s a gelding.
Then MY Stage Door Johnny mare was a sainted angel all the time.
Originally posted by lizathenag:
I have always heard (and experienced) that the Ribot’s can be a handful.
I have/had two tail male to Ribot.
Music in 3 generations, Brain (through Pleasant Colony) in 4.
Neither is/was a handful. Music can be a bit “passive agressive” about getting her way, but never a handful. And both of them are/were perfectly happy to be couch potatoes- though also willing to work.
