Is this Legend or are certain TB lines known for being belligerent?

[War_Admiral]

Originally posted by Everythingbutwings:
The Ribot’s need a job. They get cranky just hanging around.

True. Avery is a double Turn-To, Ribot within 4 up top. He loffs his work and puts everything he’s got into it - gets very cranky and offended when not in work (which makes him a difficult horse to try and retire). He is hyperintelligent & hyperopinionated, and if handled roughly or in a way that he considers to be unfair, he lays down the law in no uncertain terms. He will fight up a storm if anybody tries to dictate to him. Prefers the more subtle approach. I guess some would consider this to be a difficult personality to work with; I happen to enjoy it.

I must say he has made me a Turn-To convert!!

[ridexc]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Feenikks:
Northern Dancer was a bull (and not a Holy Bull either

Yeah, well, the Dancer was only 15:1 and a smidge. You know what they say about short men over-compensating … <G>

[fish]

“Isn’t Tabasco Cat a grandson of Sauce Boat?”

>>> Sure 'nuff: out of Barbeque Sauce, by Sauce Boat-- and here poor innocent Storm Cat’s been
getting the bum rap!

Shoot!!: the quickness of an ND crossed with the inclinations of a Sauce Boat I’ll BET T.C. was a terror. Ouch!

[CAH]

“I still shudder to think about the Baldski one.”

Yuch. The Baldski filly I knew was just plain nuts. Not a brain in the head.

Ditto to the poster that said Cure the Blues was a nasty sob. I had the opportunity to tour Milfer Farm stallion barn. At the time standing there was Northernhemisphere (yum yum), Polish Pro, Spectactular Bid and Cure the Blues. Lets just say a few stories were shared about Cure the Blues. Nice racehorse sire, nasty personality.

I don’t pay much attention after two back, to be honest.

[TKR]

I love the DTA’s and that entire bloodline. Where is Heff standing now? I know Jiggs Alarm wound up in NZ or Australia. One of my stallions is out of a Jig Time mare (sire of DTA) and I bred a daughter of his to Strong Performance (brother to DTA) and she is due to 2 months. I’d love to have a DTA mare! Does anyone know if Pistols and Roses is standing anywhere or what happened to him – where he is? I had heard he became infertile. My stallion of that bloodline is a pussycat and so are his babies. You can see him on my website www.krugerrandrunfarm.com
PennyG

[fish]

The funny thing about these so-called “tough” lines, though, is that many of their members end up being famous for their EASY temperaments-- Nassrullah is perhaps the best example. His descendants are famous for “toughness,” yet his son, Bold Ruler, and his descendants (e.g. Secretariat, Foolish Pleasure, etc.), are well known for their sweet dispositions. Furthermore, Nasrullah’s son, Nashua, was perhaps THE single most famous for his toughness/stubborness (e.g. some days he wouldn’t even leave the gate). Nonetheless, Nashua’s son, Diplomat Way, was a wonderfully honest horse, famous for throwing equally diligent runners-- not to mention the very sweet show horse sire, Our Diplomat. My own Nashua line mare (her sire and broodmare sire were both out of Nashua mares) is the most solid, useful, cooperative horse I’ve ever met. My personal experience with the Nasrullah line horses is that they are marvelous athletes with a definite “racehorse-type” toughness that can work for or against you depending upon what you do with it-- both in the breeding shed (i.e. depending on the temperament you cross it with) and in training: it was hard to establish dominance over my own mare when I was starting her as a yearling, but once she accepted me as boss (e.g. stopped running right over me in the stall), she became the easiest horse I ever had-- in large part, I’m sure, because she’s so bold, tough and confident that once she was into working for her trainer/rider, there was practically nothing that could spook her or distract her attention.

[Alagirl]

Thanks Sidesaddle…though gettting a reallly bad report on DTAs would have been more to my liking, I damn near cried when he was taken off the site! But that was almost 4 years ago now, no way I would’ve been able to afford a horse then, but he was soooooo pretty, dapple gray, though allready 10/11 years old! about 16h, I don’t wan to go much higher - I am afrait of hights - he was on West Virginia though, the current “Mid-Atlantic” chapter…I still have his picture somewhere (sorry Fairweather, I had to steal it! ) reminds me, I have to transfer it from the zip disc, or I will loose it soon, darned upgrades!

[TKR]

Tabasco Cat didn’t “kill” Lucas’ son (asst trainer), he injured him severely and he wound up hospitalized for some time.

I think Victory Gallop (could be wrong) killed an exercise rider.

PennyG

[sprite]

I worked with an Apalachee filly one summer- nice horse. Easy to work around, no issues.

It was the Broad Brush yearling that was the royal PITA.

Are the Jig Time horses known for having nice personalities? There was a Jig Time broodmare on the farm that was the sweetest thing, and her foals very very kind as well.

[summerhorse]

Last I saw Pistols and roses was at Emerald Pastures Farm in FL. I looked but their website is down right now.

I think a lot of “bad” horses are made that way by poor handling. They may be tough, hot, whatever but under the right handling they can be OK, under the wrong (read domineering) handling they can be downright dangerous. My own mare is/was like that. When I got her she was “spoiled” in more ways than one. But after a lot of work via the Monty and John Lyons methods she is very good. But she is still a hot TB and things are just going to upset her more, you can’t treat her like an old trail horse even if she acts that way most of the time. You have to be alert to her moods.

I heard Foolish Pleasure was a bear but just having to have a stud chain isn’t bad, most stallions are like that. It is when they have to have muzzles, handlers with poles, wear the same halter allt heir life with a strap hanging down because you can’t take it off… That’s dangerous! But ANY stallion can be dangerous, even normally behaved ones can snap (the infamous Aly T…).

Anyway once he got to Wyoming and got to be a real horse (out in a pasture with his harem) I haven’t heard anything bad about him and when he died they tried hard to save him so he couldn’t ahve been too bad.

In Tissar was so dangerous they couldn’t handle him at all or let him have full access to a mare (he’d kill them too) so they rigged up a chute system so he could be bred (and the mare protected). Now WHY anyone would WANT to breed to that is a mystery, I guess he must have produced a lot of runners. I never heard that he passed that behavior on though.

Monty Roberts also wrote of a Blushing Groom horse (can’t remember son or grandson) that was crazy and mean as a snake but he turned him around. It was just the people around him that didn’t understand him or care to try to (that is a big problem, some people want to put EVERY horse in the same mold and treat them all the same). Actually he wrote of quite a few of them in Horses In My life or something like that. Very good book!

Gate Dancer wasn’t mean but they said (talked to someone who either worked there or had regular business there) he was just a loon. And loony horses of course are dangerous because you never know what they will do. But hey, it wasn’t anything personal…

His sire Sovereign Dancer was similar but more on the mean side I heard.

Sportin’ Life killed someone but nobody saw what happened so it could have been an honest spook, wheel and buck and a bad landing. (he was sire of Bet Twice).

At Airdrie they said that Silver hawk, Siphon, Forest Camp would all take your fingers off if you left them in range too long but they were perfect gentleman when they went in and got them out and we got to pet them. That to me is typical stallion behavior, they are mouthy, they bite, they don’t KNOW that is a finger…

[sidesaddle]

Alagirl:

If you can find the photo, I’d luv to see it.

Of note, via the COTH BB I connected with a gal who evented her DTA Beacon Hill. She sent me the DVD and I’ve watched it a million times. Her horse is black and very handsome

[Timex]

my Mr P x Damascus mare is so very sweet. My Roberto x My Primce II (Euro TB) is very laid back, but VERY opinionated when she wants to be. While temperments may be at least somewhat genetic, i’ll never rule out each horse’s environment. for example, the breeder i ride for has 3 full siblings, a mare (the oldest), a stud, and a gelding (the baby). the stud and the gelding were raised on the family farm, and are really sweet guys. goofy at times, like to be kept busy, but very easy to work with. The mare, on the other hand, had been sent to a ‘trainer’ (long before I came along, thankfully) as a youngster (3, i think) to be ‘trained’ and now, at 7, is a huge handful, distrustful, very difficult to ride, and handling her is tricky. total opposite of her brothers (anyone see the pics i had posted of my morgan stud? this is his sister) and her daughter? a total puppydog.

[WhiteCamry]

Originally posted by TKR:
… Cougar II, imported from South America (I think) …

From Chile, to be exact. He won the '73 SAH and later that year went from last to third in the Marlboro Cup, behind the Meadow Stable boys.

[TKR]

Foolish Pleasure – SWEET??? Uh Uh! He was a mean sob, had to wear a chain over his halter noseband all the time. I absolutely adore the Nashua bloodlines I’ve bred and the broodmare that was a Nashua granddaughter – very smart, mellow, etc. The Nashua son I bred too (Beldale Ball was a bit tense, but kind and the colt I had (out of a very alpha mare) was an incredible athlete and became a packer later on. I know Jig Time x Native Dancer would hurt someone, but the mare I had by him was a sweetheart, although opinionated and her son (a stallion I bred) is as easy, kind and docile as one could ask. You have to look at the bottom lines and the whole pedigree as well as how they were handled.
PennyG

[TKR]

Gato Del Sol is by Cougar II, imported from South America (I think) and GDS won the Derby, but I don’t think he accomplished alot at stud or maybe it was because Cougar II wasn’t as “hot” as some of the other stallion lines.
PennyG

[witherbee]

I’ve heard from someone witha lot of firsthand knowledge that Cure the Blues was a nasty SOB and was close to killer status. He’s got Nearco 4 back on both sides, Nasrullah 3 back on dams side and Bold Ruler 2 back on dams side. Not sure how much it means, but I think that enough people have dealt with these lines over the years, and of course there are exceptions but I think there is some credance to it. Would it stop me from buying one as a hunter or a pleasure horse? No, I’d need to see the horse in person, handle it and talk to the trainer and groom to make my decision. Many times the actual sire and dam have more to do with it than even 2 or three generations back. I also agree that I take the dam more into consideration, but I have had a couple of the stallions that we stand really stamp their get temperament and personality quirk-wise . My own colt is by a stallion that consistantly throws babies that paw the ground when they want something (even though the stallion does not stand at the farm that these babies are raised at). Too funny how some traits are passed on…

[WindyIsle]

Liz Morris (female jock who rides at Hawthorne and Arlington - good friend of the family - I adore her she’s awesome) - swears hands down that the Storm Cat babies - his entire line - can be handfuls.

Very tough when not handled correctly and very sensitive. You can’t bully them or rush them or they explode on you.

Friend has a Storm Cat grandson Ouregan, a big dark bay stallion and he’s the sweetest easiest going thoroughbred stallion I’ve met.

He’s also from the Mr. Prospector line (sire is Gone West) I’ve heard also that the Mr. P lines can be a bit iffy - guess the two lines cancelled themselves out in Ouregan’s (French for Hurricane) case.

[juliab]

I have a Storm Cat grandson that I am trying to market as a sporthorse sire and the Storm Cat “rep” can be frustrating as one of the first questions anyone asks is: “How is his temperament - is he mean like his Grand sire?” Well, I am a first time stallion owner and went into this with some trepidation but my guy lives happily with a gelding and is a total sweetheart. His worst “vice” is that he likes you to play with his tongue! I’ve only bred him once so far and he was a gentleman with the mare. It just seems a shame because I think a lot of sporthorse breeders see Storm Cat up fairly close and write him off based on temperament. He’s by Forest Wildcat, btw. Does anyone know what kind of temperament Forest Wildcat has?

[Alagirl]

Oh SH*T I had fallen head over heals in love with a Darn That Alarm gelding on CANTER some time back…he was sooooo pretty!

I guess is may after all have been a good thing I couldn’t get him!

[TKR]

War Admiral was very opinionated and tough, VERY difficult about the starting gate, typical Man 'O War type temperment.
PennyG