[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8622193]
http://www.ahaco.com/
http://www.arabianhorseclubofcentraloregon.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/807517885961959/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/5817656938/[/QUOTE]
Thank you for taking the time to assemble that set of links for me. Really helpful!
[QUOTE=mvp;8623140]
TDo you guys worry about finding a hind end in an Arabian or Half-Arabian that’s good enough for dressage?[/QUOTE]
I watch for it but I don’t worry about it. I think, like most horses, you can learn a lot about how the horse will be under saddle by watching them at liberty (not chased) or on a lunge (no side reins or other gadgets).
If all they do is trail out behind and pogo stick at the canter, they are probably going to be difficult under saddle and not the best natural Dressage prospect.
But I bought my guy (Arabian/Saddlebred/DHH) because he naturally wanted to come under himself and stretch through his back on the lunge. Under saddle, he’s proven to be the same–he can absolutely trail out behind and lock his back and neck, but get him relaxed and focused on work and he’s easier to work with than many warmbloods I’ve ridden.
There’s also a suitability thing–for my goals, I only need so much ability to sit and collect behind. I’m not evaluating for potential GP ability.
Also, since I bargain shop, I expect to see a fair number of the stereotypically bad movers. That doesn’t worry me; I just keep looking until I find the ones like my guy. If you are shopping for a purpose-bred horse and/or through locations where sporthorse potential has already been identified, you should see more of the good movers and fewer of the less naturally-suitable movers.
There’s so much variation that you really have to worry less about the breeding and more about the horse in front of you.
Don’t be afraid to consider a Shagya Arab or a Shagya/TB or Shagya/WB cross as well. The Shagya is essentially a blending of Arabian and a trace of TB and Lippizan and Hungarian bloodlines. To learn more, you can go to www.shagya.net. We are updating our website, but the “for sale” link is up.
I found Shagyas when I was looking for something with the best traits of both :)Arabians and warmbloods. . .
good luck!
[QUOTE=mvp;8623140]
Do you guys worry about finding a hind end in an Arabian or Half-Arabian that’s good enough for dressage?[/QUOTE]
Definitely. Finding a purebred Arabian with the correct hind end for dressage is difficult. They are out there, but be prepared to weed through a lot of animals.
I would also keep in mind that in most WB/Arab crosses the mare is the Arabian. If you buy an unbroken youngster, then make sure you like the mare a lot, and that she moves and carries herself more like a dressage horse. She should naturally tend to step underneath herself, and should show movement and swing through her back. Most Arabs are leg movers. If you seriously want a decent dressage horse, then you want a back mover. It’s pretty well known that horses largely move like their mothers. Stallions prepotent for movement are uncommon.
[QUOTE=TickleFight;8623479]
Definitely. Finding a purebred Arabian with the correct hind end for dressage is difficult. They are out there, but be prepared to weed through a lot of animals.
I would also keep in mind that in most WB/Arab crosses the mare is the Arabian. If you buy an unbroken youngster, then make sure you like the mare a lot, and that she moves and carries herself more like a dressage horse. She should naturally tend to step underneath herself, and should show movement and swing through her back. Most Arabs are leg movers. If you seriously want a decent dressage horse, then you want a back mover. It’s pretty well known that horses largely move like their mothers. Stallions prepotent for movement are uncommon.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the advice.
Another question: I worry about Arabians staying tense over the back. Do you find that correlates with a horse who carries his tail high/flagged or curled over his back/to one side?
[QUOTE=Shagyas Rock;8623395]
Don’t be afraid to consider a Shagya Arab or a Shagya/TB or Shagya/WB cross as well. The Shagya is essentially a blending of Arabian and a trace of TB and Lippizan and Hungarian bloodlines. To learn more, you can go to www.shagya.net. We are updating our website, but the “for sale” link is up.
I found Shagyas when I was looking for something with the best traits of both :)Arabians and warmbloods. . .
good luck![/QUOTE]
So these guys are a little more baroque (stockier build) than your average Arabian? Does that mean they have the pluses/minuses of the Andalusian body-type as it relates to strength and collection, but having a harder time with the extensions?
I don’t know much about Shagyas. I can do a search here. If you were breeding the ideal type of horse-- let’s say a little more balanced than buying the bunchy baroque body type-- what breed would you cross a Shagya with?
[QUOTE=mvp;8623489]
Thank you for the advice.
Another question: I worry about Arabians staying tense over the back. Do you find that correlates with a horse who carries his tail high/flagged or curled over his back/to one side?[/QUOTE]
I have no idea.
You are correct, however, that Arabians tend to be tense and rigid through the back. Even for many of the horses I see with decent dressage training under their belts, their “go to” is to tense up through the top line. Same can be said for Thoroughbreds. Some of it may have to do with the fact that their backs are usually so short. Probably a lot of it has to do with the fact that most Arabians seem to be bred for characteristics incongruous with dressage.
One of the key traits that WBs are bred for, and that makes them so successful in dressage, is natural elasticity through the back.
But like I said, there are more Arabian breeders in Europe that breed for sport. I would contact the owners of some of the approved or competitive stallions to see what they are producing. Shadow Oak has produced at least one stallion who completed his stallion testing (30 days I think) and passed.
The right cross will help cancel out the croup high/flat croup of many arabians.
I really love the Irish Draught cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0USxjrzejI
Also, take a look at race bred arabians. They tend to have the conformation you might want as a base.
The tail thing is actually genetic and is called a “wry tail” although arabians do tend to do lots of tail flagging. My 1/2 arab 1/2 paint mare has a great engine with plenty of junk in the trunk but boy howdy can she flag her tail when her arab side shines. Her biggest downside is her low set neck.
A friend of mine had a racebred Arabian and he honestly looked part trakehner or SF from the side. He was well over 15hh. Then you went around the front and realised he was only 8" wide, lol. Lovely horse though. Too smart for his own good sometimes.
I’ve got a great HA mare available. She is 15H with a big body and can take up a lot of leg. She loves to work and is currently in training at an Open Dressage barn where they say, “She looks like a little warmblood!” Incredible retention. Hasn’t been overworked–she has kept being given a back seat to other horses. She’s an A Temptation daughter and was shown at SHN In Hand when she was younger. She has two Top Tens and a Reserve National Championship (out of 3 classes). This mare has GREAT movement! The last time we showed her in hand, the judge saw us after our go talking to friends a ways from the in gate and left the last horse of the show at the cone to come out and ask if she had any foals available. (She has never been bred and did not. But it was quite the compliment.) She has an incredible work ethic and is going to make someone a great horse! PM me for more details if you are interested.
[QUOTE=mvp;8623140]
The “ambassador” horse in my life to the Half-Arabian thing is a NSH-- the Arabian/Saddlebred cross. Love what’s between his ears. But I think he has in the hind end a lot of the problems that were bred into both of his parents’ breeds. He has lots of hock action, but it’s all out behind him. And standing there, he’s a bit straight behind. I don’t think collection and a lot of push from behind is easy for this conformation.
I mention this combination (Arabian and Saddlebred) because I wonder if this hind-end conformation comes from breeds selected for their trot (and maybe just an extravagant front end), and not bred to canter or jump. Do you guys worry about finding a hind end in an Arabian or Half-Arabian that’s good enough for dressage?[/QUOTE]
I look at the hind end engagement on ANY horse that is a potential.
I didn’t buy a lot of them because of the rear end. The really good saddlebreds have hocks well under and are balanced back to front. MUCH harder to find Arabians with hocks well under. I managed to find this one who has his hocks under him. Is uphill. Has a wonderful canter. Had to kiss a LOT of frogs.
My guy is from super OLD saddlebred lines. Arabian side is from a family famous for being athletic physically and mentally.
Your mileage may vary
And yes, tenseness in the back is a given with these horses. And with a great many ‘Baroque’ types.
When I was looking I was looking a lot at WB’s as my next horse. As my FEI 1/2 Arabian was getting older. I tried a great many. I grew up riding Arabians, Saddlebreds, and Thoroughbreds. Lack of a GO switch frustrates me terribly.
My coach finally suggested I just find a 1/2 Arabian (pointing to my old guy) with the right gaits. And the mind set that I love.
I KNOW how to deal with a tense back. Yes, it gets scored down more than a horse that ‘hovers’ when it gets tense (WB characteristic). But I would rather deal with tense back with a GO switch, than having to push so much.
Oh yes. During my search I came across a beautiful Arab WB cross. Right size, right age. Right gaits. However, combined Arabian smart with considerable lack of desire to work. Not a good combination for me.
How about this guy? He looks fairly capable to do the dressage work.
Even if he’s too far away (Midwest) - you should all read the ad for a little humor!
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetailCheck.asp?HorseID=45756&UserID=17063
[QUOTE=goldenrow;8624493]
How about this guy? He looks fairly capable to do the dressage work.
Even if he’s too far away (Midwest) - you should all read the ad for a little humor!
http://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDetailCheck.asp?HorseID=45756&UserID=17063[/QUOTE]
Same seller has a mare for sale (I think maybe a sibling?) who is super cute too.
[QUOTE=mvp;8623489]
Thank you for the advice.
Another question: I worry about Arabians staying tense over the back. Do you find that correlates with a horse who carries his tail high/flagged or curled over his back/to one side?[/QUOTE]
Nope. I’ve got a 3-year-old purebred, for example, who flags her tail when excited, but she’s totally loosey goosey in the back. She’s got that M Monroe sashay in the walk and trot–even when she’s flagging her tail. It’s all about the breeding. Certain lines are more relaxed in the back.
This is a lovely and talented Arab X WB stallion that has some very good get on the ground. You might want to contact them.
https://www.facebook.com/Saint-Sandro-466983320004/
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8632641]
This is a lovely and talented Arab X WB stallion that has some very good get on the ground. You might want to contact them.
https://www.facebook.com/Saint-Sandro-466983320004/[/QUOTE]
I love Saint Sandro but the issue is that if the OP wants a registrable arab cross she would have to breed him to a purebred arab mare which would make it a 3/4 arab. If the OP really wants a 50 50 cross she would need to find a
stallion of some other breed and a purebred mare or the opposite.
[QUOTE=Charastev;8623994]
I’ve got a great HA mare available. She is 15H with a big body and can take up a lot of leg. She loves to work and is currently in training at an Open Dressage barn where they say, “She looks like a little warmblood!” Incredible retention. Hasn’t been overworked–she has kept being given a back seat to other horses. She’s an A Temptation daughter and was shown at SHN In Hand when she was younger. She has two Top Tens and a Reserve National Championship (out of 3 classes). This mare has GREAT movement! The last time we showed her in hand, the judge saw us after our go talking to friends a ways from the in gate and left the last horse of the show at the cone to come out and ask if she had any foals available. (She has never been bred and did not. But it was quite the compliment.) She has an incredible work ethic and is going to make someone a great horse! PM me for more details if you are interested.[/QUOTE]
Where are you?
They are out there. I feel the cross works better and more balanced though when the mare is the warmblood part. And I will second the Saddlebred/Arabian suggestions. I have seen some that I would have sworn up and down were warmbloods. Here is my gelding at 20 months at his first show, mare (Holsteiner/Saddlebred) and sire Arabian. I am buying the photo as I think it is a great one to add to my collection of him.
He was being a young stinker and was going through another growth spurt, but the judges saw a ton of potential and made comments like extremely athletic, great hip, great shoulder. He naturally moves off of his hind end and is really fun to watch loose as he is so balanced.
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;8632641]
This is a lovely and talented Arab X WB stallion that has some very good get on the ground. You might want to contact them.
https://www.facebook.com/Saint-Sandro-466983320004/[/QUOTE]
Yabbut, you’d have to cross him with a purebred Arabian mare in order to get a baby who was eligible for Arabian Sporthorse shows, right? And his being an F1 cross between two unrelated parental lines/breeds, I think you’d have a hard time predicting his genetic contribution to any given mare.
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