In so many ways this very long thread reminds me of the UK in the 1970s. Riding instructors shouted orders from the middle of the ring and couldn’t answer any questions if one dared ask them. A standard response would be “Because it just is”. There was a system in place, through the BHS exams, but it was very inflexible in approach, very military in the lack of discussion. Move on a few decades and now the BHS system teaches how to teach riding as well as horsemanship and it is far more professional. It is very different and vastly improved. The Olympic disciplines also now have certified coaches who are trained to teach: doing, winning, having a name is not the same as being able to teach or train or coach. Learning, researching, improving, understanding so many aspects of riding and horsemanship from bio-machanics to nutrition to sport science is the back story to the very recent success of Team GB in dressage. I’m also old enough to remember when dressage was a half column at the back of Horse & Hound and everyone thought it was trick riding. However, “happy hacker” is still a term of mild abuse for amateurs.
No, children are NAIVE. They simply don’t know any better, so they do what they are told. They also do not have the fear that adults have, again, because they are naive.
Sure, they are naive, agreed — and open-minded. Rather than making a case for kids’ open-mindedness in being taught, I would make a case against the close-mindedness of certain adult beginner riders whose sense of entitlement and special treatment needs get in the way of learning to ride. These clients are being formed by their trainers, and vice versa. The lubricant is usually money. The goal is, always, good riding.
From this post, you sound quite set in your ways and not overly teachable. Perhaps you do not come across this way in person, perhaps you do.
I do not think ruling a trainer out based on age is a particularly valid method, but it’s your choice. I don’t think said trainer not wanting to teach you on a horse she perceived as lame is reason to call her inexperienced. You got similar feedback on the horse on your thread.
Yes, coaches will hop on to feel what is going on with a horse. I will get on client horses to feel a problem—my feeling might change the way I approach an issue. I might get on to help make something more clear to horse or rider. If I can get on and get the horse working over its back, client can get on, feel it, and recreate it the next time they ride.
I have some clients who understand the theory and know what they should be doing, but don’t know how to get there or don’t have the body awareness to get their on their own, that is why we have trainers.
how i come across in person? l suppose just like any run of the mill highly functional person on the spectrum…great with animals and total crap with people.
Age is my reason, and it is quite valid enough for me. But thanks for sharing your opinion.
Now that i know it’s customary for instructors to hop on their clients’ horses i’ll make sure i get my groundrules discussed and agreed upon before the first lesson. Which for me are: nobody touches me, or my horse.
@eightpondfarm i would never ride with someone I couldn’t trust to get on my horse and improve it. Have you considered going and watching your new trainer ride and teach? I think it might help you develop trust (or realize it isn’t a good fit). FWIW I watched that video and thought the bay mare looked suspicious behind. Not lame but worth checking out. I have cared for a number of mild stringhalt horses, which is what came to mind for me. Very manageable condition for such a mild case.
But honestly you should have all your new mustangs bet checked for soundness as they are such unknowns. When they are at the point they can be, of course.
i have a percheron with bilateral stringhalt. It is apparent occasionally when he takes his first step after standing. if he has been stationary for a while, grazing or just resting in the shade, his first two steps are high and the third may be a bit delayed. From my understanding, this is the normal presentation of that condition. His trot is balanced and normal and his canter is also normal (well, as normal as a giant’s trot and canter can be) Again, it is the walk where you see it, and only the first step or two. The traditional presentation of stringhalt is nothing at all resembling anything like that amazing trot on that little bay mustang mare. She suspends her stride. She hangs. Stringhalt is a sudden, uncontrollable uplift. How you recognize it is by the upswing, not the nanosecond hold. I come from Morgans…have had many morgan horses, and the park ones have all had that same action the little mare has …it is desired. It is sought after. What i see in that little bay mare is that same natural athleticism.
The artticle and other posters have made a lot of good points - I dont necessarily agree with every one but they are good points.
I came to dressage through the back-door - to improve my dressage score so my bush pony didnt have to make it all up on x-country. I didnt have formal lessons until i was in my mid-20s. Prior to that I was thrown up on whatever Dad had on the farm, rode some track and hunted out on 3 very good hunters - the kind of point and shoot and sail over the 5’ hedge.
Two things stand out for me with trainers - and I have been known to leave a clinic if I think it is shit.
(1) the trainer must actually LIKE horses - a key requirement that many trainers forget.
(2) Train with what you turned up - and you had better have a willing attitude to listen and learn.
One I recall fondly (now passed) taught me on my stationbred horse - Jester was not a WOW mover, he wasnt too fond of trotting but he was renown for being safe. Manfred had him WORKING hard! He watched me and then asked to ride. After 40 minutes of watching him make my Jester do it, I got on for another hour. Jess and I were dripping in sweat - even with sweat running down our noses - but that was the last time that I ever took the view that “oh well, he’s just a <<enter phrase>>, it doesnt matter”. I learnt that each horse has something to offer and can improve. Jester was no Valegro - heck, he wasnt as good as my next three horses - but we improved.
There you have it.
I’m former military, and absolutely LOVE a good blunt, respectful, instructor that doesn’t try to appease my ego. A little snark is an added bonus for me. 🙂
I don’t think she was talking about that kind of instructor though. I’ve met the ones she’s talking about, and they are not professionals.
Also, as former military, I’m very aware that blunt and confident does not equal knowledgeable.
I actually agree with many of your points. After spending 4 intensive training months in Fla (Tuesday-Saturday, 3 horses back to back) with a Very sought after German clinician, I found the following:
1.) Equitation changes everything. American clinicians (not all, but too large an amount) do let rider position slide in order to better showcase the “fanciness,” of the horse. Meanwhile, to the German clinician who reshaped my position, first & foremost, results are achieved precisely by sitting with a balanced seat, keeping one’s hands low, together with fingers closed at all times & by god, “no leaning backwards!” As an ex jumper, I began my Dressage “career,” by leaning too far forward. Over the years & under the tutelage of different American trainers, I ended up relying on doing just the opposite! This German clinician never once - even for a second let me get away with anything aside from sitting up straight, no “leaning backwards,” (which we see all too often even at the very top of the sport) taking the contact & “giving,” using only the slightest movement of the elbows forward, as a reward.
2.) A clinician who comes back once a month is the best bet. I was extremely thankful to have what were basically, daily clinic rides so even the tiniest progress was notable. Clinicians who come just once a month can see not only improvements made by you & your horse- but whether or not you’re receiving good information from the ground, by the hosting trainer (assuming that trainer is the one you work with daily.) I also find the returning clinician to be less focused on showcasing fanciness of each horse, and more focused on leaving a student with just a few important pieces of instruction to internalize. Things to always keep in mind, no matter what movement you’re working on, no matter how your horse is behaving that day and leaving not too much room for a rider to wonder “crap, what do I do now?”
3.) So many trainers are just plain “doing it wrong.” The best thing to do if you’re hearing 18,000 different & contradicting pieces of instruction from different trainers, look into locating a European clinician who produces results you can feel & internalize & one who returns frequently. Or, as you said, spend time with an S judge or *5 judge. (Or, both.) I probably learned the most I’ve ever learned by sitting at a table with one S Judge & one *5 judge -no horse sitting with us (haha) And having lessons in the academics of Dressage. Both echoed the importance of internalizing USEF/USDF/FEI rulebook. If you’re into reading, it may at first seem dry. However, once you get into the whole “hoof widths of over-track,” & straightness vs. “rectitude,” - you can keep these lessons in mind as you’re riding. You can constantly ask yourself “am I straight? Ok, but am I in perfect rectitude?” And, you can then make yourself aware as you’re riding.
4.) Awareness - the best of clinicians & a small group of trainers who fall into the category of being considered “best riders in the world,” all say the same exact thing wrt “awareness.” Once you are riding in a way which allows you to be fully aware of how your body is positioned, (back to equitation) & the way your horse reacts to subtle & less subtle aids, keeping in mind what you’ve learned academically, suddenly, you’ll find the answers come more quickly… but so the questions. Though, the most helpful clinicians will always tell you “ask your horse questions repeatedly, he may give the wrong answer, he may give the right one. But, the most important thing is, that he does, indeed, offer answers. Once a horse stops providing answers, there is a disconnect which must be fixed ASAP!” I do realize, btw, this the paradox. “What to do when you know the answers, only to be left with more questions… But… in my experience, your ability to find the answers yourself comes with one thing only…riding, riding & more riding. (Of course, taking into account whatever consistent pointers you’ve been given, which have not been interrupted by a conflicting POV, by earlier or current training. Just as riding requires consistency, so does the internalizing of the lessons you’ve learned most consistently.)
Again, my 2 (or 10 cents) only. I’m absolutely in favor of changing the way money is spent in the training world - especially for us Ammies! Happy Riding!
