they should enforce the circle rule- a full loose rein circle at the trot or an automatic no score. i think that would help a few of the more obvious cases. difficult problem logistically to solve and im making it seem too easy but that seems like the best solution?
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I mean, no one needs to be at these big shows. Thereās no real reason a 3 foot kid NEEDS to be there anymore than the short stirruper. Maybe there are no local or schooling shows. Maybe the short stirruper wants to go to these shows and the parents are fine with paying for it. At the end of the day, everyone at these big shows are paying thousands of dollars to jump their horses over sticks so it seems a little weird to start getting high and mighty about who should be paying the big bucks for the privilege of jumping bigger sticks.
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You have a problem with trainers making money?
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Good post.
I bet many of the ground pole and short stirrup kids are at this show because they have family or friends at this show. It makes no sense for a family to send their older child who jumps a level that is on Annieās approved list to one show and send their younger kid who is just doing cross rails to some local show.
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Oh please.youāre acting like Iām the only person on COTH who ever expressed any of those sentiments about the way showing is going. and then the peanut gallery jumps in for the typical COTH pile on. Get over yourselves
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Honestly I donāt think people jumping cross rails clogging up the schedule are the major reason why eq horses are pushed past soundness and I think itās a bit of a deflection to suggesting THATāS why we donāt jog eq horses for soundness. We donāt jog them because some people in positions of power wouldnāt like the outcome if they were joggedā and that says a lot.
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I donāt think anyone said it was a major reason
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Thankfully most COTH members (apparently āthe peanut galleryā to you) are able to discuss issues in a more civilized manner than you seem to be. Why the hostility?
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It seemed major enough to you to bring it up in this thread?!
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I mean, you did bring it up, and in a very sour grapes way.
Look, Iām a HUGE supporter of local and unrated shows of all levels.
I also agree that Iād spend my money elsewhere to jump under 3ā.
I ALSO agree that trainer conflicts are annoying (especially for flat classes or where the holding trainer has a very entitled and unapologetic attitude about it).
None of these things have an impact on jogging equitation horses OR horse welfare in this context. The tone you brought was very condescending to the riders you deem unworthy of rated showing because it inconveniences you and your preferred schedule.
Iāll say it again - how do we speed up the day? Class limits on the horses, management empowering gate guards to enforce a time limit on an empty ring (especially for the trainer who shows up late and then āwarms upā the client for an hour), running the flats before the jumping, etc etc.
How do we prevent people riding lame horses in the equitation specifically? Put soundness in the rules, add a loose rein trot circle in the round, raise enough of a firestorm (okay thatās an exaggeration but also not) that judges feel like they can eliminate for soundness, class limits for horses, etc etc.
Removing the low level classes at these shows will not make for sounder Equitation horses.
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One of the reasons for no jog etc for Eq horses was that there wasnāt time, it took too long and some other āreasonsā (excuses).
Trimming some of the fat and eliminating some wasted time would allow other things to be added , like a jog to protect our horses.
Of course, just like the trot circle, it actually has to be enforced to do any good.
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The ring 12 hunters/equitation jumping 2ā6 and below which historically have not jogged are the ones who I upthread suggested are probably equally likely to have soundness issues as the equitation horses. Not sure exiling them to local shows with no drug testing or oversight at all is really overall solving a horse welfare issue butā¦
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Really great point I hadnāt considered.
Our C circuit seems to have pretty sound horses, all things said and done. But the unrated barn shows? Iāve stood at the ingate cringing almost every time. Unfortunately those local unrated shows also donāt employ the highest quality judges (some are fabulous, some not), so rarely are the lame horses excused. At best, theyāre allowed to compete and not pinned.
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Nobody on here is giving excuses for sore horses, just suggesting better ways then lining all of them up at the same time to individually jog before or after the class. Merely that working it into the class while being ridden at the time of competition would be less complicated and likely a better indication of serviceable soundness then 20 trot steps on a line in hand hours before or after the round.
Be more convenient for humans but also less stress for the horse. Take less then a minute per horse when they are already dressed and going into that ring in front of judge(s) already there. As opposed to dragging them out in the early AM or late in the afternoon yet again in addition to their prep, schooling and competition rounds, after which they should be done.
JMO but makes more sense and better for all.
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ā Where Are The Mandatory Soundness Checks?
Why is it that our equitation finals do not include mandatory soundness checks? Why are there no jogs prior to competition? These classes represent a hallmark of excellence in our youth and, in some cases, portend international-caliber careers. Thousands watch the finals in person or through live stream platforms, as public a display as we have in the junior ranks. ā
This was the specific question posed in the article, and I think itās a good one. Not to ignore the unsound horses at shows every other week of the year, but if we want to start with baby steps, how hard would it be to implement a jog for finals? There are formal jogs, early in the week, for all FEI classes, for the Hunter Derby Championships, for Zone Jumper Championshipsā¦ how hard would it REALLY be to require, FOR FINALS, horses to be there by āXā day and present for a jog for soundness on āXā day.
Now. I know this is not foolproof. I know that you can ice and laser and and and in order to get a horse feeling good āin that momentā but it would at the very least be a start to getting sounder horses in the ring.
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Time, space and availability of show officials is the short answer along with often large numbers required to jog.-228 entered this years Maclay. Yet another reason to work it into the class. IMO.
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Sure, but theyāve limited the entries at Maclay finals to 150 now. Just a quick look at an FEI week at Tryon that had a CCI2* and 4* showed 109 and 120 definite FEI entries. They all manage to get jogged before the week begins. Adding a required loose rein trot circle to each round is also going to add time to the day that everyone already says is long enough as it isā¦ you can play devilās advocate both ways. Then do you also have to address the rule of maintaining contact/hands on the reins versus trotting on a loose rein? All things to consider
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HJ shows are logistically different, divisions run over multiple days with horses shipping in and out throughout the show week as their divisions start or wrap up as do owners and trainers. If you show on Fri and Sat, you may haul in Thursday and haul home Sat night. The FEI model requiring everybody to jog before competition starts wont work.
With multiple rings running, pulling a judge and ring crew to run a jog plus taking a schooling area to run it in would beā¦cumbersome at best, when it could just be added to the round.
Realize OP was about Eq but, IMO, we could and should do more to check soundness. And its possible without disrupting the time schedule or the rest of the rings operating during the show.
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At major equitation finals, IIRC there is a time requirement that the horses be onsite for (I believe itās 24 hours, could be more). To add a jog, logically, it is THEORETICALLY feasible. Have the horses there 12 hours prior to the jog start, which is the day or two before the actual class. I feel if someone is spending the time and resources to compete at a national final at indoors, they can get their horse there a day early. This is not a regular show where yes, they could come in and out through the week. For finals? Theyāve ALL gotta be there to show Sunday, so thereās no reason theyād āleave earlyā or āget there lateā if it meant they wouldnāt have a chance at the big dance before it even started.
Now tactically, sure - need to pay more staff to do the jog, need to sway the powers that be, need buy inā¦a steep hill to climb for sure.
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Everything here is great - MOST rounds are ended on a trot or canter circle anyways (if we are talking hunters and eq) so we arenāt adding a discernible amount of time by requiring a loose rein trot circle. And Iāll reiterate the benefits on a real time assessment of soundness DURING the round, on a circle, and not being dragged behind a rider who doesnāt know how to trot a horse in hand.
As far as jogging an equitation final ahead of time, Iām less skeptical of this working vs every āregularā show. It might have the benefit of giving kids some prep doing jogs in hand as well.
Regardless, putting a soundness REQUIREMENT in the rules might be step one.
