Regarding feed contamination–I don’t recall the details, but wasn’t there a US carriage driving competitor (maybe Bill Long?) who got DQ’ed for theobromine some years back, and it turned out that the hay he’d brought to ensure there were no changes to the horses’ diets was shipped in a boxcar that had just prior to that been used to transport cocoa beans?
From a regulatory point of view, I completely understand why you would not specifically list all potential hypersensitization agents and simply ban that “class” of products. The regulator cannot possibly list every product that might be used for hypersensitization. However you run the risk, as they may have in this case, of capturing in your net those that did not use it for that purpose. If you as a Federation are prepared to take that risk so be it.
What this tells me is that riders and teams competing under FEI rules really have to learn to read the fine print and truly understand what voluntary testing is going to accomplish and broaden their understanding of what those “classes” of products entail then go back and re-visit every single product in their tack box .
However, with respect to capsaicin, would they not also be caught as having a class A “agent which could improve performance by relieving pain”
It seems to me that they have breached two classes of prohibited substances.
[QUOTE=MissIndependence;3466395]
I don’t get why you think it’s “off topic”. The whole point of any doping is to increase performance - and this is a discussion of possible performance changing substances being given to horses in a clear “no drug” alley. As for your point that if horses get sore - they shouldn’t be asked to perform…well - athletes of any kind get sore. I’m sure anyone with high performance horses can tell you - the ones that make it to that level are freaks. The ones that can jump like that with nothing and stay sound are the “michael phelps” of the horse world.
The point is that these guys (riders AND their grooms/trainers and support people) are supposed to know and follow FEI rules. If they don’t - then they are either stupid - or purposefully trying to push the rules. The rules of FEI competition are clear - NO DRUGS or performance enhancing substances of any kind. Remember the fear of Beezie Madden when Authentic colicked during the Athens games? They were allowed to give him NOTHING for days. I’m sure it was torture - but if he was going to stay in contention for medal - no drugs. The facts of this case obviously aren’t out and it’s possible there was a screening error - or that something else happened - but at first glance, it makes these people (or their support staffs) look like fools. Don’t pick the largest athletic games in the world to mess with questionable substances.[/QUOTE]
I am at a loss of words…
I agree, but the problem here is that the riders apparently were certain it was okay; indeed they had been tested (or so they believed) all year and never had a positive result while using. Now whether it was dumb to be certain it was okay… different issue ; ). The thing is, there are precious few, if any, products that you can be certain are okay given the wording of the rules.
I’m struggling why this is causing such debate - it’s VERY common knowledge on the A Circuit (at least in here the USA) to NOT use Equi-Block or other products containing Capsaicin on FEI horses. I posted earlier in this thread about a prominent vet, who often treats top FEI horses, even warning me about Magic Cushion because of the ingredients - he told me about in July 2007. It has NEVER been a secret that Capsaicin is a no-no. I just don’t think grooms and trainers at this level didn’t know to NOT use the product.
Why not just cold hose their legs and wrap? Or water/thermal therapeutic boots? Magnetic therapy wraps and/or blankets?
There are definitely ways to ease the normal aches and pains of competition without using a liniment or substance that has been routinely tested for the past year.
Are you sure it wasn’t just common knowledge that it was banned under the USEF rules? Because I have known that, for quite some time, as I said before. But looking at the current FEI rules, there is not a single one that explicitly prohibits it, and the one category it arguably might fall within - hypersensitization agents – could be construed to include almost anything under the sun, including water and the sun itself.
Also, the Equi-block was used on their backs, supposedly, not the legs., fwiw.
I think I read somewhere that until recently there was no testing technique for Capsaicin. In the case of Denis Lynch - he stated he used the Equiblock on his horse’s back prior to working out - so cold hosing wouldn’ be an option, magnetic therapy however would have been - and for all we know he, and the others may do that as well. At any rate it would be interesting to know what the test(s) actually show vs. just a positive reading - from a media standpoint.
So why is lavender a forbidden substance?
Thank god mint isn’t on that list. I can’t seem to eradicate it from my pasture.
It can have CNS effects.
[QUOTE=poltroon;3478051]
Thank god mint isn’t on that list. I can’t seem to eradicate it from my pasture.[/QUOTE]
Well, even if mint was on the list, I suspect your horses wouldn’t test for it – if you can’t eradicate it from the pasture, perhaps it’s because they won’t eat it. 
(My lawn has a problem with dandelions. Dandelions don’t stand a chance in my pasture.)
So do we know for sure that there aren’t any more samples working their way through the labs? Did they test more horses during the individual jumping?
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;3478263]
It can have CNS effects.[/QUOTE]
Swell. They prefer not to eat it; do I need to ensure that they don’t?
[QUOTE=poltroon;3478051]
So why is lavender a forbidden substance?
Thank god mint isn’t on that list. I can’t seem to eradicate it from my pasture.[/QUOTE]
I believe menthol is as prohibited as capsaicin. I posted an article on the CKD thread re capsaicin and felbinac, and it mentioned menthol as a pain reliever:
Pain Relief With Counterirritants
These pain relief preparations (which include Flexall 454 Maximum Strength Gel and Therapeutic Mineral Ice) contain such ingredients as menthol, camphor, eucalyptus oil, and turpentine oil. When applied to the skin over an affected joint, they mask pain by producing a warm or cool sensation. Counterirritants can be applied to the skin three or four times a day. A frequent side effect is reddening of the skin, which is harmless and temporary.
http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/reports/arthritis/128-1.html
Once again - those PR’s with + tests ALL USED A PRODUCT, BE IT OINTMENT/LINAMENT - that contained a banned substance. They were all attempting to gain an advantage by making their horse more comfortable. (For what it’s worth, I think one should be permitted - within reason - to help the horse.)
Whether you think the FEI’s policies are to strict, not clear, the testing too sensitive and are ready to take on the giant killer, they are the current rules and every PR and their connections should have been prepared to abide by them.
The only good that could come out of this fiasco is maybe, in light of these positives, as was the case after Athens, the FEI will further reform their policies.
Peace Out.
Ruby…
[cue music]
To dream … the impossible dream …
To fight … the unbeatable foe …
To bear … with unbearable sorrow …
To run … where the brave dare not go …
To right … the unrightable wrong …
To love … pure and chaste from afar …
To try … when your arms are too weary …
To reach … the unreachable star …
[/cue music]
Look! Do I see Don Quixote on Rocinante heading for the combination, er, I mean the windmill?
Apparently now there is a US Dressage horse that came back w/ a positive test for a drug that the rider and US vet never even heard of… Evidently the horse was treated in Hong Kong after arriving because of the stress of the trip… and so it goes.
Just got word that the capcaisin in the case of at least the Norwegian horse was found in a bottle of what we call “pickspray” meant to keep the horse from chewing his sheets, stablewraps etc.
I would have to say that as far as deliberate doping goes, there’s at least for me reasonable doubt here. Specially since the stuff seems to be pretty much everywhere.
[QUOTE=DancingQueen;3479332]
Just got word that the capcaisin in the case of at least the Norwegian horse was found in a bottle of what we call “pickspray” meant to keep the horse from chewing his sheets, stablewraps etc.
.[/QUOTE]
Oh no. 
Just clarifying–I was referring to the lavender.
If you’d been using Equi-block at the recommendation of your vet consistently for the past few years, as is likely the case of Lynch and Ahlman, and you’d won a lot of big classes and been drug tested multiple times with no positive tests, you probably wouldn’t even think twice about continuing to use it at the games. Until last week, the top vets in Europe were recommending Equi-block.
Well, hopefully not to their clients showing under FEI rules since it contains capsaicin which is a known pain-killer and therefore a banned Class A medication.
