People also need to consider what the unknown risks are with this disease. My SO is in healthcare. He is seeing kidney issues, lung issues, things that people get who may not die but may have lifetime or long-term health issues. There is an article today in the NYT about kids up to the age of 15 coming down with a rare disease - they are seeing it in Europe too - from the virus. Is it worth it just to horse show when we know that many millions more will become infected in the US since no one wants to stay home? None of us are risk free regardless of age. Keep that in mind.
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I guess the idea is that social distancing will be a thing of the past by the time this kicks in? Is that the plan? Because most people don’t live with their trainer/groom? I’m asking sincerely. Or are we going to get 6 foot long reins and pass horses off remotely? Have coaches standing 6 feet away yelling instructions at the ingate at riders? If someone falls off in the ring, no one goes to help them up? They either get up on their own or else we call the paramedics? No brushing off and a leg up? If you need to go to the bathroom your only choice is walking miles back to the trailer and loading your horse up because you can’t have someone hold your horse (Princeton trailer parking is a HIKE from the rings and for most shows there [other than a few big ones] they don’t have stalls set up)? I’m just trying to work out the logistics of this. If you don’t have a groom and your trainer/coach has multiple students you’re kind of on your own for everything… in a place where it’s a little hard to “work off the trailer” due to the location of parking and the rings. I’m an adult so I don’t necessarily have a family member to bring. I’m just trying to envision how this would work. I have a hard time seeing how it would without it either being a tremendous pain or else people from the same barn clustering in ways that violate the 6 foot rule.
I teach at several universities and we also want to get “back to business” but our plan assumes social distancing continues. The horse show plans seem to assume it doesn’t. We’re planning to do things like have a 12 person class in a room that can accommodation 60+, so that everyone can sit 6 feet away from each other and to stagger what days people are in the building. Everyone wears masks all the time. No word yet on what they’re doing for passing in the hallways, the bathrooms, etc.
It just strikes me that yes horse shows at some point either die or they start again, but they shouldn’t just start for economic reasons without a consideration of what the best practices are. And, so far, I haven’t seen guidance on that. So I don’t see how Princeton (or other shows) can just declare June shows are happening without knowing what precautions need to be taken so they can plan it out. As a rider I certainly would want to know what the necessary precautions are and what the plan is. I wouldn’t want to just know “one person in line.” That wouldn’t be reassuring enough for me. Are we standing 6 feet apart in line? Masks? All pre-entered and pre-paid (honestly why do we need the office anyway, why can’t everything be done through email/text etc.) Ride times? What is going on with the bathroom? I would want to know ALL these things before I could get on board.
In addition to knowing the show’s specific plan I would also want to know (1) what does the virus spread look like in the area at that time (2) what does the CDC say we should/shouldn’t be doing (3) what does the state of NJ say we can/can’t do and should/shouldn’t do and (4) who is going (so I can make some assessment of how compliant/non-compliant they are-- I say this with love as a New Jerseyian myself but we NJ horse folks don’t follow rules that well). I don’t see that any of this information is known yet, so I don’t see how I could feel comfortable making any kinds of plans. I know some people don’t care, or care to varying degrees. They’re going to do what they want, regardless. But as a community how can we support this, even if we do agree at some point showing has to come back in some capacity, when it seems like it’s happening so prematurely and in the absence of a lot of critical information?
We are hitting the peak now in NJ. I can’t even imaging feeling confidence in what things will look like in a month or so.
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Exactly what vxf111 said.
PA has a red, yellow, green system for relaxing restrictions. No organized team sports are allowed in the yellow phase whatsoever. Only 24 out of 67 counties in PA made it into yellow…yesterday. No word on when the others will. And our Governor already warned that if numbers increase in any of those yellow counties - back to red they go.
I don’t see horse shows or summer camp (even outside summer camp) being able to happen in PA for a VERY long time. Like not this summer long time.
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There are not enough medical masks, testing kits, face shields or hand sanitizer to supply health care professionals and other people that are in contact with, and/or treating and testing people that are ill and/or hospitalized and dying due to the virus.
Grocery store workers, people that work in meat packing plants etc… as well do not have proper protection, let alone everyday people.
There will not be “big jugs” of hand sanitizer at horse shows, unless there are some very wealthy people that are willing to pay to divert those necessary products from hospitals, health care systems and other essential workplaces.
This is not easy for anyone
If you, actually worry about how the pandemic is affecting the grooms, jump crew, braiders etc…?
If you do, then help them if you can.
Give some money to that groom or jump crew, pay your braider even though you aren’t using them. Help people that are in need, give them a gift card for groceries.
These people about whose welfare you are so concerned, yet are willing to put in harms way so you can show in the middle of a pandemic, could use some help.
If you can’t or are not inclined to help them that’s fine, but please don’t use their welfare as an excuse for you to show your horse right now.
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WOW, ok.
Well I may not be wealthy but heck tackoftheday.com just had special on KN95 masks and “big jugs” of hand sanitizer… which yes, a horse show manager CAN actually buy and provide for their staff. https://www.tackoftheday.com. I sent it to our trainer who is also a show manager, and hopefully he picked some up, if only for the barn. But here I am sharing it for those who think you cannot find any masks or hand sanitizer anywhere. That may have been the case in March, but it does not seem to be any longer. By golly I can even find fully stocked toilet paper aisles!
Regardless, it is not our decision whether or not shows will open up, that will be about the USEF and local governments involved. I am simply saying there ARE ways to make it safer in areas where the relative risk is lower than other areas. If people don’t want to show, they don’t have to. If officials do not want to officiate, they won’t have to. If braiders don’t want to work a particular show, they don’t have to.
What people seem to fail to appreciate is that different areas of this country are affected differently. I have family outside NYC who have had COVID-19 and are in a very different reality than I am somewhat out in the countryside in Virginia, and folks in Montana are even in a completely different reality than I am as well. There ARE places where showing can resume safely in a few months, if we take the appropriate measures. Am I saying we should show next week, absolutely unequivocally not but I do think by July, things at least in some areas will start looking more favorable.
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I think you fail to appreciate how this virus is spreading, but if you aren’t willing to learn about it there is nothing I can say to help you understand. I’m tired of trying.
I’m glad that you’ve found online hand sanitizer. There is none available here. No rubbing alcohol either. I am hoping that the supplies have been distributed to essential businesses and medical facilities and that is why there hasn’t been any in the stores since March.
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I have no idea how Tack of the Day can have N95 masks (At $10 for a 2 pack that’s a bargain currently though the “normal” price is around 80 cents apiece, or less) but I can tell you that there are plenty of front line providers who can’t get them, and are having to conserve and reuse and share, plenty of veterinarians and dentists who don’t have enough supply for normal operations, etc. Hospitals and governments are having a lot of trouble getting them.
So who is getting scammed here? Are they authentic N95? Or did someone snatch them from a hospital who got outbid?
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Local distilleries have been making hand sanitizer in my neck of the woods. Restaurants and bars have been advertising hand sanitizer and toilet paper available to purchase. I still can’t find toilet paper in the stores.
I think we’re all doing our best here and the first part of your response was unnecessary.
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I think we eventually are going to reach a point where everyone one of us is going to have to take a good , hard and realistic look at our own individual circumstances to decide if going out into the world is worth it or not as things begin to reopen. The best thing we can all be doing right now is learning all we can about any area that we plan to be in, keeping up to date with any new information and thinking of everyone around us. ( Would you be okay with not seeing grandma for two weeks? Can you self isolate if you do get exposed?) That way we can be making a well informed decision.
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We can agree to disagree then.
Anyone who believes that hospitals, medical facilities, and essential businesses have the protective supplies they need, is not paying attention to the reality that many people are facing every day.
Ignorance about this pandemic, how incredibly contagious the virus is (and apparently being unaware of PPE shortages in hospitals and essential businesses) is not uncommon. With all the information easily available, I think choosing to be ignorant is inexcusable.
I do need to excuse myself from this conversation. I’m (obviously :o ) very frustrated by people who can’t be bothered to educate themselves, when the lives of so many depend upon all of us being well educated.
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I assure you, I am taking this virus VERY seriously. And I 100% acknowledge that we have some major supply chain issues going on with PPE, testing, meat, toilet paper, etc. I just hate to see us attacking each other when I really do think everyone is doing their best here. Let’s not tear each other down.
Seriously, I feel you. So much rage and angst and tantruming on my end. This. Sucks. But I do think there is room for conversation, and I honestly come to COTH to appreciate different educated, rational viewpoints. I’m sure as sh*t not finding it on facebook.
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What Tack of the Day has is from China and its Chinese rated and not American rated. Not sure how reliable that is. It’s also borderline crazy pricing and potentially against some local rules against price gouging. $10 for two Chinese rated masks.
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I’m not a facebook user so I don’t see what happens there. Apparently that’s a good thing.
My post was not made out of frustration toward you, but to answer the poster who thinks that PPE and hand sanitizer is available to whomever requires it. They aren’t, and the fact that some people are unaware of this is incredible.
Stay safe, and hang in there. :yes:
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I didn’t even click on the link.:no:
just because we may disagree doesn’t mean we are uneducated.
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I’m guessing it’s not very reliable and that front line workers don’t want these masks.
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Good lord you have a lot of nerve calling me ignorant. I am most assuredly not. You don’t know me. This is a freaking horse related bulletin board, the question is about whether or not horse shows can and/or should go on. I am pretty sure no one said that everyone at horse shows needed to be wearing n95 masks - and yes I’m aware that the ones on TOD are the Chinese equivalent. They are actually cheaper than the homemade ones I’ve bought from people so thought that some folks would appreciate having the link if they needed some. You said no horse shows would be able to buy enough hand sanitizer and I pointed out a source for 500ml pump bottles, so I guess you’re wrong.
im sorry you have friends affected by this. I do as well. I have two close family members who have had it and recovered thankfully. I also have parents living right outside NYC and I fear for them and those communities. I talk to them everyday and I’m fully aware of what they see up there. That doesn’t make me tear people down on a bulletin board. I respect your opinion and respectfully offer my own.
ETA: I hadn’t visited or posted much on these boards in years and I’d forgotten how uncivil people are. My bad.
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Just to be clear those masks on TOTD are not N95. They are KN95 and they are disposable masks from China unrated by US standards. For $5 each plus almost as much in shipping. Not really comparable to what people are making on their home sewing machines. If people want to buy them that’s their choice. But I just wanted to make sure there’s no confusion what these are. TOTD is very clear that no US authority has inspected or rated these. Buy at your own risk. At $10 a pop for single use including shipping. For an item that cost a buck or so pre pandemic. People making cloth masks on their home sewing machine and selling them for $5 is a little different. That’s a non professional sewers trying to cover her materials and time. The masks on TOTD are coming from a Chinese factory. I seriously eye raised when I saw those masks on TOTD.
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I’d lay odds that those will be siphoned off promptly after being filled…
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Reposting! This deserves a bump. I’ve stayed away from the forums for months. Really pleased to see most are actually relying on science and basic care for the welfare of Others.
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