Keenland Yearling Sale

The process varies a little from sale to sale but for KeeSep, you make your entries in the spring then Keeneland sends a team of conformation experts to look at the yearlings. They evaluate each horse and assign it a number based on looks. Another Keeneland team analyzes the page and gives it another number. Those 2 numbers are added and become a rough guideline for where the yearling will go.

The big consignors like Taylor Made, Denali, Lane’s End, etc. are alloted a certain number of spots in each book and they can pretty much decide which yearlings they want to use to fill each slot. The small consignors write a letter detailing their “wish list” for positions and giving their estimated value for each horse they are going to sell.

Generally speaking nobody wants to be in Book 1 unless they think that have a colt that will bring a million dollars. And no one wants the last book because they figure all the money will have already been spent. Different kinds of buyers are shopping at different times during the sale so you need to put your yearling where he’s in front of the most people who should want what he has to offer and also–if possible–where he looks like a bit of a standout.

I think the books are roughly worked out by early July and we usually get our hip numbers around the third week of that month. The catalogue appears on line a couple weeks later.

Thanks Laurie…I really appreciate it.

[QUOTE=vineyridge;6558377]
Who are we talking about with the questionable dam line? I just went and looked at #111’s (RNA for 950K) page, and it looks to me as if the dam side could not be better. First dam has 7 to race with 7 winners, including Master Command who won over 1M bucks. 3 of the seven have black type, and one daughter has already foaled a G3 winner who is a 2009 model.

Lady Wimborne was half to Allez France and is a daughter of Secretariat. She was also a prolific producer of black type , and was black type placed herself in Ireland. She might not be quite of the Hildene level, but she is La Troienne tail female with Searching as her granddam. Just can’t do much better than that.

From what I gather from The Blood Horse, the TB recession is almost certainly over.[/QUOTE]

Hip # 111 was the A.P. Indy colt the I was referring to…
I’m not the pedigree expert… however I can see that the dam line of that colt is nothing to sneeze at. Perhaps Maxxtrot has the hip#s confused?

[QUOTE=tradewind;6559196]
Thanks Laurie…I really appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

DITTO!! Learn something new !! thanks again Laurie

[QUOTE=LaurieB;6559193]
The process varies a little from sale to sale but for KeeSep, you make your entries in the spring then Keeneland sends a team of conformation experts to look at the yearlings. They evaluate each horse and assign it a number based on looks. Another Keeneland team analyzes the page and gives it another number. Those 2 numbers are added and become a rough guideline for where the yearling will go.

The big consignors like Taylor Made, Denali, Lane’s End, etc. are alloted a certain number of spots in each book and they can pretty much decide which yearlings they want to use to fill each slot. The small consignors write a letter detailing their “wish list” for positions and giving their estimated value for each horse they are going to sell.

Generally speaking nobody wants to be in Book 1 unless they think that have a colt that will bring a million dollars. And no one wants the last book because they figure all the money will have already been spent. Different kinds of buyers are shopping at different times during the sale so you need to put your yearling where he’s in front of the most people who should want what he has to offer and also–if possible–where he looks like a bit of a standout.

I think the books are roughly worked out by early July and we usually get our hip numbers around the third week of that month. The catalogue appears on line a couple weeks later.[/QUOTE]

While this is correct for “Book 1” it does not apply to books/catalogues 2 and on of horses offered at the Keeneland September yearling sale. Though consignors/agents generally can request certain horses to be in specific books, this year there are 6 catalogues spread across 11 days, the final decision is made by Keeneland. Some consignors do carry more weight with their request then others. The only select session based on conformation was Book 1 this year. Book 1 had 132 horses or hips, an industry term derived from the catalogue number that corresponds to their catalogue page that is placed on their hips. Generally several hundred horses will be nominated to the select session. These are the only horse that are inspected and given a conformation grade number. The pedigree page will be reviewed and given a grade number also. These numbers, pedigrees and the consignors are entered into a data base. They are correlated high to low score. The sales team will determine the number of horses to be catalogued for the select session based on the strength of these numbers and set a cut off point. Consignors are given a chance to make a case for those horses that don’t make the cut. Sometimes they get in and sometimes they don’t. The strength and or “clout” of certain consignors can have a major influence. Their reasons on more then just vanity or an owners ego and would take a while to explain the intricacies of “placing” a horse. The rest of the 3,500+ yearlings in this years sale are not inspected for conformation. But the are selected per-say on the stregth of their pedigrees and given perference. All pedigrees are given a grade based on the produce and or race records of the dams and stud fee/sire power of the stallion bred to. Each book will have a minimum grade assigned to it and only horses who’s pedigrees meet that grade will be catalogued in that book. Again consignor preference can and does come into play. There are reasons for placing a horse with a Book 2 pedigree in Book 3 or 4. Sometimes it’s better to be a big fish in a small pond is one.
Consignors are made aware of their horses placing and are given a chance to request and or make changes before the catalogue is numbered and printed.
As to what horse is first in the ring and last is based on the first letter of the selling horse’s dam’s name. The catalogue is numbered alphabetically starting with that letter.
Each years the sales company will pick a letter “out of the hat”. No one wants to be the first or last horse sold. Doing it this way negates complaints and accusations.
Each sales company will have a slightly different way of going about it. Each company’s “system” is proprietary. My experience comes from having worked at Fasig Tipton. Which is were Keeneland’s director of sales once worked also.

This may have been true in the past but in the 10 years that we’ve been selling at KeeSep, the process has gone as I described above. The Keeneland team travels around the country and inspects several thousand yearlings per year not just those few nominated to book 1. If you talk to them, they’d be happy to tell you that.They don’t see everything, but they do inspect the top half of the sale.

The reason Book 1 only had 132 hips this year is because sellers don’t want to sell there. There was no culling down from a higher number, no good horses that “didn’t make the cut”. You don’t have to be an insider to know that–all you have to do is read the TB press. Walt and Geoffry both mentioned it, and implied that the process will continue to be tweaked next year to make the system more workable.

Of course Keeneland has the final say where horses are placed–but they are also heavily influenced by consignors, who know their entries and know where they belong. It’s a collaborative process.

[QUOTE=ejm;6555390]
Hip 131 hails from one of the great Calumet Farm families. It just gets stronger the further back you go with several major branches besides this one.

What’s not to like about a G1 winner by classic winner and major sire Empire Maker whose second dam was a major G1 winner and dam of a $3 million sales yearling. Family of Ky Derby winner Bold Forbes, G1 2yo SW Saratoga Six, etc. , etc.[/QUOTE]

Though the selling horse’s pedigree http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep12/pdfs/131.pdf does trace back to Calumet the the family on the page is the result of several breeders, principally IMO the late Lee Eaton founder of Easton Sales and Mike Rutherford. Rutherford being the breeder of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd dam. Rutherford was the owner of the 4th dam, which mistakenly is listed as the 3rd dam also, but not the breeder. That being Joe Morrissey. The 5th dam Priceless Fame was bred by Eaton. Not much on the race course but became the dam of the major European stakes winner Dunbeath, a moderate sire, and major US stakes winner Saratoga Six by Alydar a decent sire probably Alydar’s best son at stud. Both bred by Eaton. The 6th dam Comely Nell a foal of 62 was bred by Calumet. Unraced and blind in one eye she was culled and sold to Lee Eaton. Where she became a “foundation” mare for Eaton producing Bold Forbes, winner of the KY Derby and the Belmont Stakes among other top stakes. A full brother to the above mentioned Priceless Fame. The 7th and 8th dams did not produce anything of note on the race track for Calumet and IMO this would be one of the weaker family’s that Calumet bred. Until Comely Nell came along for Lee Eaton a commercial breeder and the descendants which bloomed for their owners also. Which represents the modern day pedigree page.

This is all so fascinating for me…thanks for all the information.

i think i was talking about hip 131 the one that rna’ed at 975,000.00

Hip 131 sold for 1.65M. The discussion was about hip 111 (who did rna for 975k).

131 is the sale topper, sold for $1.65m to Shadwell. And has one hell of a page: http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep12/pdfs/131.pdf
Lakeway was a fabulous filly. Not to mention the 1st dam, a multiple graded stakes-winning millionaire.

I think you might have been referring to this one, which has an even better page than the above! Perhaps more or equally important to buyers, not only can they run, but several decent sires have come from that family. And one of the very last AP Indy sons. And full brother to a millionaire.
http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep12/pdfs/111.pdf

Who is your friend again? I wouldn’t ever use him. :lol:

Our last filly sells tomorrow, hoping I can tell my boss I told you so:lol:. He will probably be telling me that instead.

Funny our Exchange Rate is going to Japan. Driving around the valley yesterday and seeing all the hay lined up for export I figure she will continue to eat Ellensburg Timothy even though she’s moving halfway around the world. Our hay field is in alfalfa this year, but how bizarre would it be if she ended up with hay from her own backyard.

We will start seeing buyers from our neck of the woods purchasing horses starting tomorrow or Monday. It’s always fun to see what is headed out west.

[QUOTE=maxxtrot;6553918]
that a.p indy colt that rna’ed at 975.00 i would have let go, he did not have that great of a page. crazy.[/QUOTE]

If you were referring to hip #131 mistakenly, I don’t see how you (or your vet) can fault Mushka’s breeding either. Her dam side looks very impressive.
By Empire Maker, and 3 black type mares behind her. Of course there may be nuances that I am not aware of (not being an expert , only an enthusiast).

Whichever horse you were referring to, Maxxtrot, your vet must have exceptional and very unusual standards regarding thoroughbred dam lines. :yes:

LaurieB and Jenniewho, if you ever have time to PM your horses hip#s before the sales, I would love to cheer them on! I watch all the Fasig Tipton and Keeneland sales online (I do wish I could attend in person) and it would be fun to have a COTHER’s horse to follow!

Very informative discussion about how the books are determined. Thanks for that info.

Had my first experience there last year - accompanied a friend for books 2 & 3. It really is overwhelming, and you have to have a good system down, with the rest of your experts at the other end of the cell phone, and your running shoes on.

Very quiet now that summer is over. Really should have returned just for the experience! Need to make this a yearly trip! But nice to be able to check the results/watch part of the sales online.

god, just forget it, it was hip 111 i guess, but from what i see here noone is able to speak what they think without getting hammered. it’s what they thought, does not make them wrong just their opinion. as we all know, i have seen horses with great pages go on to do nothing. also full siblings that never amount to anything as well. my vet does quiet well at the sales an has been in the equine business for quite sometime. 2 farms with over 300 mares and foals is pretty good, and with a ton of vet and personal clients.

I have another question…When does the prepping for the sale begin in earnest. What does it involve. Since apparently most of them get scoped, do you presale scope so you know ahead of time? How are the handlers of the yearlings assigned. Is like for breeding shows where you have a favorite handler and hire them ahead of time? Thanks again!

We just have one more in the sale, hip #2987, a Langfuhr filly who will sell late Wednesday afternoon. :slight_smile:

There are probably as many different ways to prep as there are consignors, though most use pretty much the same basics.

Prep for our yearlings starts about 8 weeks pre-sale. At that point, they go on night turnout (4 pm to 7 am) so their coats won’t be sunbleached. The colts are usually separated into single or two colts paddocks so they don’t beat each other up too much. They’re bathed, brushed, and curried every day and they’re handwalked for several miles both to build muscle and for training purposes. (Lots of people use exercisers but our consignor prefers handwalking.) They might have their suppliments adjusted, or new ones added. And they’re scrutinized pretty intensely. :lol:

Other than that, they lead very normal lives.

Every consignor has favorite handlers and yes, they’re hired ahead of time. The good sales handlers do a wonderful job and a bad one can really mess up your yearling’s chances of selling well. Often on the early showing days, horse and handler pairs are switched around until the consignor sees who “clicks” and then that handler will stay with the horse through the rest of the sale.

Our yearlings are scoped for the first time the week before the sale when the vet comes to do the xrays that will go in the repository. So before we go, we know what the scope looks like. During the sale, with a yearling that’s being scoped a lot, the consignor will probably check with each vet to make sure that the scope continues to look good as sometimes that much activity can cause irritation.

[QUOTE=LaurieB;6560295]
This may have been true in the past but in the 10 years that we’ve been selling at KeeSep, the process has gone as I described above. The Keeneland team travels around the country and inspects several thousand yearlings per year not just those few nominated to book 1. If you talk to them, they’d be happy to tell you that.They don’t see everything, but they do inspect the top half of the sale.

The reason Book 1 only had 132 hips this year is because sellers don’t want to sell there. There was no culling down from a higher number, no good horses that “didn’t make the cut”. You don’t have to be an insider to know that–all you have to do is read the TB press. Walt and Geoffry both mentioned it, and implied that the process will continue to be tweaked next year to make the system more workable.

Of course Keeneland has the final say where horses are placed–but they are also heavily influenced by consignors, who know their entries and know where they belong. It’s a collaborative process.[/QUOTE]

No disrespect but I beg to differ and I am not going to nit pick over exact numbers. Each year is different. I have known Walt for more then 30 years he was hired by my Father as an auctioneer for Fasig Tipton. Geoffrey, my contemporary I have known since he got of the plane from Ireland. Also hired by my father and John Finney. Having grown up in the auction business I have a pretty intimate knowledge of the process. I have “sat in” and or have been part of the selection process with Fasig Tipton at one time. It is not much different now then it was then. Though computers/data bases and specific proprietary software/algorithms have become cost effective. I am not bragging only qualifying my posts. I also breed and sell with both sales companies. Book 1 the “select session” came about with the demise of the famous Keeneland July sale more then 10 years ago. The selection teams for both sales companies do have to travel and that is expensive. There are people that nominate with a bit of naivety for the select sales of either company. But unless they have the “goods” they will be turned down without being personally inspected by either companies “main team”. Both sales companies retain “regional” inspectors to “check out” the odd horses that maybe of interest. Though the majority of select quality yearlings reside in KY many others in the Mid-Atlantic regions including NY. I am fully aware of the consignors and or breeders feelings on the “Select session” this is and has been in discussion for several years now. Anything that is read is old news to those of us who do this for a living. Yes, there maybe more the a few hundred inspected but certainly not thousands as you have stated. I don’t have to know the exact number logic dictates. There just are not thousands of mares who’s pedigree, produce and or race records are worthy of being bred to the top stallions. That being said there are many mares being bred to expensive stallions who’s pedigrees, produce and race records do not warrant the exercise. But hope springs eternal as they say. And some do catch lightning in a bottle. Most loose money. The fact is just because one breeds their idea of a top mare to a top stallion they are not guaranteed of getting a horse that will meet the conformational high standard of select buyers that the sales companies want to cater to and the buyers expect. The fact is a lot of expensively bred horses are a total bust especially colts.
Select yearling sales like Saratoga, Fasig July, Keeneland September Books especially books 1 & 2 if not 3 & 4 also these days are “orchestrated”. In other words each session is loaded with horses/pedigrees that hopefully will end up with the desired average and gross the sales company has set for each day. In the smaller select sales all horses that make the pedigree cut will be inspected. Given the number of entries that the Keeneland September gets inspecting the majority of entries would be costly and not necessary. Instead the sales company relies on the consignors expertise to place their horses appropriately. It would not be in the best interest of the consignors client to put a well bred horse with “issues” in Book 2 just because it qualifies on paper. Most likely it will not sell. If it does most likely well below the sales companies desired average for the day. Which drags down the days average much to the chagrin of the sales company. The buyers for those books are not interested in horses with “dents” no matter how well bred it is. However that same horse’s page in Book 5 will have a much better chance of getting sold because it will be a stand out page and buyers will try and make a case for it because it will most likely fall into their more modest budget. There is far more to setting up an auction then just cataloging horses. Some of the details I have tried to explain.

maxxtrot is right about horses with great pages often going on to do nothing. But that’s breeding, human and animal. All a great page does is up the odds for you. Same with siblings.