Keep them off the pasture? NEW QUESTION! Post 15

First year dealing with pasture maintenance so I have a ton of questions! About a month ago I aerated and overseeded my “big” pasture and moved the horses to the small pasture for the winter. Unfortunately, we had a hard freeze about a week later and nothing has germinated. I don’t know whether that means my seed is going to lie dormant until spring, or if it’s just dead and I’ll have to start over in the spring.

Either way, with nothing germinating, is there any reason to keep my horses confined to the winter pasture or can I let them back out on the “big” pasture? My thought was to pull them off the big pasture again around early March, seed again, and let it rest until May or June. Good idea? Bad idea? Any other advice?

Thanks!

I’m really curious as I’m in the same situation about overseeding in the spring.

Where are you and what type of seed did you use?

I am in MO and used both tall fescue and a pasture blend which contained bluegrass, timothy, orchard grass, and winter rye.

October is a little late for fall seeding. Around here (Maryland) they say Aug 15-Sept 15 and we’re at similar latitude. Next time I’d aim for early September to give the seeds time to germinate and develop enough to survive the first frost.

This chart from your extension office is helpful: http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4652

Orchard grass should be planted at least 45 days before first frost (http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4511)
Tall fescue should not be planted “later than Aug. 31 in extreme northern Missouri, Sept. 15 in central Missouri and Sept. 30 in southern Missouri” (http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4646)
Bluegrass is apparently not recommended for fall planting at all (see chart)
Timothy should be planted Aug 20 - Oct 1 (see chart)

I think in theory some of the seeds could still germinate in the spring but I wouldn’t count on a lot. If they had germinated and then got hit with a frost, they would likely have died for good. You might still get lucky with the rye too?

If it were me, I’d probably let them use the pasture over the winter then close it in the early spring for reseeding. Not best practice but turnout on grass in a large area keeps my boys happy. I have a spacious dry lot but it’s just not the same. I’d rather have happy horses than pristine pastures. I do try to keep them in when it is super soggy though, like after snowmelt.

Thanks, Libby. This is very helpful, I’ll have to save that chart!

Mother Nature was NOT helpful this fall which is why I had to seed so late. I had planned on seeding in early September but we had zero rain in the forecast for weeks on end, and even until a few of weeks ago we were still getting hit with 90 and 100 degree days…so I waited until it looked like we had two weeks of mild temps and some showers in the forecast and seeded. But, ya know, Murphy’s Law and all…the forecast changed and we literally went from mid-70’s one day to highs in the 30’s the next. Sad day for my seed :no: Luckily, nothing had started to germinate so I’ll keep my fingers crossed some comes up this spring.

So, say that seed IS lying dormant (wishful thinking), will having the horses on that pasture all winter kill it or am I okay to let them back out on it?

I’ve seen orchard seed come up after a hard frost in NC. I’m not sure how close the climates are though.

I feel your pain! Except this year, when August was super wet, it is always SO DRY here Aug 15-Sept 15, when you are supposed to seed. It psychs me out and I end up not seeding because it seems like it will be a waste. I think you’re supposed to do it anyway and trust that the rain will come later in September. It does seem like the weather gets weirder every year though…

As to your question, I don’t have a definitive answer but my guess would be that the horses can’t hurt ungerminated seeds. I think some people would say turning the horses out could help work the seeds into the soil, but I’m not sure about that. I know that if it were me I would probably not confine my horses all winter just on the off chance that it would make a huge difference to those seeds that are already not certain to germinate in the spring–know what I mean? Depends on the needs of the horses and the size and nature of your winter pasture though. You could compromise and only turn them out on it when the ground is very firm. Or reach out to your extension and see what they suggest.

I would agree with Libby, having happy (mentally) horses in the big field is more important than saving seeds at this late date. I did not seed this year because of local drought conditions. We had minimal rain all Aug thru Sept, no grass growth until Oct when it started raining again. I had to start winter hay in Sept because of no grass.

See what you get in very early spring with grass growth, night freezing, do check soil temps wit a soil thermometer. Seed won’t germinate in cold dirt, just rots… You can try seeding your bald spots, thin areas then. Try to go early, for better rain if it heats up for summer. I get better germination if I do some light discing, fertilizing, seeding, then dragging, to get good seed contact with the soil. I have smaller fields and often spread the hay storage sweepings, some bales of straw thru my full sized manure speader to cover the dirt after dragging. I love those little sprouts coming up thru the cover! Cover helps prevent birds eating my seed too. My seed costs a mint, I feel like I am spreading gold dust!! I want every seed to sprout and survive intoto being a plant.

As a bonus, the discing, dragging, help smooth the dirt of winter hoof prints for MUCH smoother mowing later. It does look a bit rough when you get done, but it seems all the cut up grasses, most seeds, take hold again to grow well into nice fields. I would do the work, spread seed, drag when rain is expected soon and more rain in the next few weeks for keeping your seeds growing. Check several weather predictions!! Even the Almanac can beat weather stations some times. My local computer ones are useless. The computer ones say sun as the rain is pouring down! Maybe you know someone with some accurate predicting aches or pains to help the timing! Ha ha

Weather is going to do as it pleases, it is a big guessing game to time things right. Good luck come spring.

I agree with both of you, Libby and Goodhors. My plan now is to open the whole pasture to them unless the ground is soft, in which case I still have the ability to contain them in the smaller winter pasture so the bigger pasture stays in good shape. I’m going to ask around and see if I can get someone to either disc and seed or just drill seed in the early spring, and then I guess I’ll keep them contained in the small pasture for a few months.

I’m a little bummed my efforts (and money!) were a waste but live and learn, right? Pasture management is harder than I’d anticipated! Anyway, thanks again for all of the great advice!

Check on the drill before committing. Our County rents a grass seed, no-till drill but you are REQUIRED to spray and kill everything in the field before drilling in seed. We have very good turf, a variety of grazing plants in all times, hot, cold, cool temps, of a year. Why would I want to kill that off? I wanted drill to make growth thicker, not start over! So we didn’t rent the drill.

We used a no till seed drill here, without spraying to kill grasses first. It worked very well like this. We aerated the field first.

The weather is your biggest danger. You just got a tiny taste of what real farming is like.

I know weather forecasting is not easy, but boy have they been off this past year! While it is a pain if you are planning on doing outdoor fun, it is money lost if you started to make tons of hay on their predictions. This past summer was the longest hay year ever.

I’m in NC and I overseeded my 2 front “big” pastures (about 12ac total) with a no till drill October 21 with Kentucky 32 novel endophyte fescue. And we’ve barely had any rain since. There is a small bit of growth coming up now, but less than I had hoped. The 3 horses are confined to the “barn pasture” (about 3ac) since the seeding. Do I need to keep them all off of the larger pastures until the spring? This is also my first year with pasture management.

FWIW, I rented the drill from my county and was not required to spray/kill anything beforehand. We just had to vacuum out our seed leftovers when done and make sure it was clean on return.

Opened my temporary fencing so horses now have access to the entire pasture. I’ve been letting them out for 1-2 hours a day, but they would love to stay out all day. It’s really eaten down with a lot of bare spots (which were caused by arena construction, not the horses!) but they are happy to mosey around and nibble. With just a little over an acre “pasture”, is there any harm in leaving them to come and go from pasture to paddocks all day? Will they eventually come up for hay?

Again, this pasture needs to be renovated in the spring so will they do long-term damage if I let them stay out longer? I don’t ever intend on letting them out when the ground is soft and will pull them completely off of it in the spring to give it time to get seeded, fertilized, and rested.

They will eat it down more and tear up the ground a bit but if you’re going to renovate the pasture in the spring anyway, I personally wouldn’t worry about it too much, especially if you keep them off when it’s really wet. I typically give my 3 horses access to 1 acre of grass all winter and it comes back nice and full once rested for the month of March (even without seeding and fertilizing–I did do that one year but not the past two).

One of my horses likes to nibble at tiny bits of grass most of the day whereas another one prefers to park at the hay. As long as they’re both in good weight, I don’t worry about it.

One thing I’d recommend before it gets muddy, if you don’t already have it, is some sort of stone around your gates and any other heavily trafficked areas. I use stonedust but that only works if you get to it before it gets muddy (otherwise it will just disappear into the mud). When I had a muddy area I wanted to address, I used crusher run instead. I did end up topping it with a layer of stonedust too because it’s such a pain to pick manure out of crusher run.

At the top of this page are some pics of what my field used to look like after winter: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com/2016/10/dry-lot-construction-with-lots-of.html. In the top picture, you can see the slow feeder box I used to reduce hay waste and the crusher run pad it sat on.

Thank you, Libby! Your property is beautiful, and that DONKEY!!! :smiley: I was kind of wondering what harm they could cause, other than eating all of the grass, and they will be SO happy to get to stay out longer!

And YES on the stonedust! After my first boot-sucking, mud-filled winter here, we are now virtually mud-free after having around 200 tons spread in the paddocks and around the gates :yes:!

Awesome–mud mitigation makes such a huge difference!!!

Thanks for your compliments, and I love that donkey too! I say that someday when I can’t ride anymore or I’m sick of all the ups and downs with horses, I’ll just keep a herd of donkeys. Scritching long ears is an unparalleled distraction from all the world’s woes. :slight_smile:

What’s your weed situation like? If you have some weed issues, may want to just spray for weeds in spring, and wait til fall to overseed. Generally there wouldn’t be time to both spray for weeds AND plant new seeds.

I would graze them but not let it get overgrazed. That could cause delayed emergence in the spring and open the door weeds that would not otherwise be an issue. Be especially careful if you have sandy soil-- they can start injesting sand once the field is grazed down to a putting green.

Until it gets really cold in January, mine usually prefer grazing over hay, which is fine. It’s not like they’ll voluntarily go hungry, and they have enough sense to fill up on hay when they need it to keep warm. If not doing this already, you can establish a routine of calling them down for a grain snack AM & PM just to make sure you get a good look at them in the light. Mine come at a gallop from 20 acres away when I flip on the big barn light, even though they’re not “hungry”.