Keeping weight on ex racer

[Saffron_Rose]

I’m in the UK so maybe this isn’t the best place to ask but hopefully this forum can give me some ‘outside the box’ ideas for keeping weight on our exracehorse.
He’s just turned 17, is 16hh/16.1hh and probably 500kg - or just under - at the moment, so isn’t terribly thin, although it’s been very mild here so far. (Between 13 - 4 degrees celsius/ about 55 - 39 degrees fahrenheit). His BSC is ~ 4.5/9 under his coat.

But I don’t particularly want him to lose anymore weight and was wondering if anyone has any good feed suggestions to help prevent further weightloss?

He is stabled overnight with ad lib hay, and turned out during the day on 2.5 acres with 1 other horse.

In the evening he’s fed 400g Alpha A Oil, 400g pony nuts, 125g micronised linseed and soaked beet pulp (which is about 100g dry weight). I also add approximately 100ml of sunflower oil to his diet and he is rugged with a medium weight TO in the day and a MW stable rug at night. He isn’t sweating/too hot in these and he has been dewormed and had his teeth done in October (they were fine).

But he’s still dropping weight despite only being a glorified field ornament.

I think I will be swapping out of the pony nuts for rice bran pellets as these seem to be between 15 - 18mJ/kg of energy depending on the brand whereas the pony nuts are much less. Ideally he would be getting another small feed in the morning but, having tried this, it just ended up being wasted as he was impatient to be turned out and didn’t eat it.

No hate please and thank you for any advice.

[CanteringCarrot]

The Alpha A Oil is good and Linseed does’t hurt, but nothing else in that diet is not really calorie dense. I think you can keep the sunflower oil, ditch the pony nuts, and keep or leave the beet pulp - not calorie dense. 400g isn’t very much feed. I prefer Linseed in oil form over sunflower oil or feeding the actual seeds.

Dodson and Horrell have a “build up mix” or “build up cubes” that you could look into. Then feed the appropriate amount for his desired weight. Pavo has some feeds designed for building fat and muscle too. Otherwise, I am not sure what exactly is available in your region. Maybe you have some good quality senior feeds.

The rice bran pellets aren’t a bad idea, and I’ve seen those produce good results.

My stand by is free choice hay, appropriate for weight amount concentrate feed, and a top dress of oil if more fat is needed. Or something like the Alpha A Oil/lucerne product if I am just feeding grass hay.

[S1969]

@Saffron_Rose

He is stabled overnight with ad lib hay, and turned out during the day on 2.5 acres with 1 other horse.

How much hay is he getting during the day, and how much is he actually eating?

95% of the time the problem is lack of adequate hay - meaning good quality. Most TBs need a significantly larger quantity of hay than horses of other breeds.

[Saffron_Rose]

@S1969

How much hay is he getting during the day, and how much is he actually eating?

95% of the time the problem is lack of adequate hay - meaning good quality. Most TBs need a significantly larger quantity of hay than horses of other breeds.

He gets three or four large chunks overnight (not sure weight sorry) and eats about 90% of it. I might weigh it tonight actually; I know a horse of his size should ideally be getting a minimum of 12.5kg/27.5lbs a day I think (2.5% of bodyweight). He’s not generally fussy with food but IS, sadly, fussy about hay. He also eats really slowly - presumably because, as a racehorse and then a dressage horse as he was after leaving racing, I know he was kept in, so he didn’t have to worry about other horses stealing his food and didn’t learn to hussle with his dinner lol!
Part of the issue is he doesn’t know how to eat hay off the floor, only from a net; if it falls out he thinks it’s inedible. (And yes, he is an incredibly dimwitted pony!) That’s an issue I’ve never had with any of my horses either so I’m not sure how to “teach” him that it’s OK to eat hay loose off the floor.
Being honest, he’s the first horse I’ve had that’s a poor doer. My others are all native ponies who can actually get fat if given too much hay, never mind hard feed, so I’m pretty knowledgeable on how to get weight off horses, but getting it on? I’m clueless!

[CanteringCarrot]

Has he had his teeth evaluated and a good float recently? He could eat slow due to dental issues.

I’d also consider other health maladies such as worms/parasites and maybe ulcers or pain somewhere.

I have a horse that prefers his slow feed haynet, but he will still eat off the floor. What happens when you put the hay on the floor and offer no net? I am assuming he’d eat it then?

[Saffron_Rose]

@CanteringCarrot

Has he had his teeth evaluated and a good float recently? He could eat slow due to dental issues.

I’d also consider other health maladies such as worms/parasites and maybe ulcers or pain somewhere.

I have a horse that prefers his slow feed haynet, but he will still eat off the floor. What happens when you put the hay on the floor and offer no net? I am assuming he’d eat it then?

As I said in the OP he’s been dewormed and is OK there and his teeth were done in October. Not sure on the ulcer front but he’s not symptomatic of them though sadly I can’t afford to have him scoped currently.
He won’t eat any hay off the floor when stabled and will literally spend all night hungry if you throw a pile on the floor for him.

[S1969]

@Saffron_Rose

He gets three or four large chunks overnight (not sure weight sorry) and eats about 90% of it.

How much does he get during the day? In turnout with the one other horse? What are they eating during the day?

[Huntin_Pony]

If he won’t eat off the floor but eats 90% if in a net, one wonders if there’s discomfort when he puts his head down. Does he graze eagerly in the pasture?

Perhaps have a vet or body worker (chiropractor) check his neck/back? Pain might cause weight loss indirectly or directly.

[Saffron_Rose]

@Huntin' Pony

If he won’t eat off the floor but eats 90% if in a net, one wonders if there’s discomfort when he puts his head down. Does he graze eagerly in the pasture?

Perhaps have a vet or body worker (chiropractor) check his neck/back? Pain might cause weight loss indirectly or directly.

Yes he eats fine in the field. He’ll eat hay off the floor in the field too.

[NancyM]

There can be many sources of issues resulting in weight loss in an older horse. If you have eliminated the most obvious, then it is time to call in a vet for further investigation. Cancer is one possibility.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Saffron_Rose

As I said in the OP he’s been dewormed and is OK there and his teeth were done in October. Not sure on the ulcer front but he’s not symptomatic of them though sadly I can’t afford to have him scoped currently.
He won’t eat any hay off the floor when stabled and will literally spend all night hungry if you throw a pile on the floor for him.

Oh, sorry, I don’t see that in the OP. Good to know.

And interesting about the hay.

[S1969]

@Saffron_Rose

Yes he eats fine in the field. He’ll eat hay off the floor in the field too.

So, again - what does he eat during the day? How much hay/grazing and what quality. You’ve only mentioned what he eats overnight…so……maybe not enough to eat the other half of the day.

[Saffron_Rose]

@S1969

So, again - what does he eat during the day? How much hay/grazing and what quality. You’ve only mentioned what he eats overnight…so……maybe not enough to eat the other half of the day.

Just grass, which isn’t really ideal but all that’s possible atm, although as of yesterday he’s getting 200g Alpha A Oil, 100ml sunflower oil and 50g 9dry weight) beet pulp at 6am, which will be gradually increased over the next 10 days or so, because it’s now going down to - 5 celsius/ 23 degrees fahrenheit over night.

[freshman]

It sounds like this horse just needs MORE FOOD. Quit adding a dash of oil, a pinch of beet pulp, etc. 400grams of “pony nuts” is less than 1lb per day. For a freaking thoroughbred. I’m sure there is a better feed for this horse, but if pony nuts is all you have for now, fine, just feed him more of it. Like a lot more. Like a kilogram or two or three per day would be a normal amount of feed for a horse like this…

[BWP]

My older lad (29) has been testing out the Dodson and Horrell cushcare condition recently. Fab feed, but TOO conditioning for him at the moment, considering it’s been so mild so far and the grass hasn’t actually stopped growing. I’m not suggesting yours is PPID/Cushings, though not impossible at 17, but it is a nice feed.

I’d also swap out your beet for alfabeet/fibrebeet and increase that (it’s really not that common to get alfalfa hay over here!). You can also increase the micronised linseed, I’d double what he’s having now but can go up to 500g if necessary. Two/three feeds a day ideally.

ETA: might also be worth contacting some of the main feed company feed lines. Topspec/dengie/spillers/d&h/baileys will all give information over the phone. You don’t need to go with any of them, or could choose to mix and match, but they will give you a rough idea.

[Simkie]

Being unthrifty and fussy about hay is pretty par for the course with gastric ulcers. I don’t know what OTC options you have, but it would be worthwhile to do something for his belly.

And what freshman notes about the quantity is really valid, too.

It may be helpful to chart out how many calories he’s getting from each thing you’re feeding him. A pound of ANYTHING just isn’t much for a horse that needs to gain weight. You might like FeedXL, too.

[S1969]

@Saffron_Rose

Just grass, which isn’t really ideal but all that’s possible atm, although as of yesterday he’s getting 200g Alpha A Oil, 100ml sunflower oil and 50g 9dry weight) beet pulp at 6am, which will be gradually increased over the next 10 days or so, because it’s now going down to - 5 celsius/ 23 degrees fahrenheit over night.

Ok, so the horse is eating frozen winter grass for half a day?

We still have some grass here in NY but we don’t consider it actually “food” because it’s frozen and/or dormant. It’s not inedible, but it doesn’t mean it’s enough. Not to mention, by the time a pasture is freezing over, it’s been grazed down a lot unless you have really big pastures. Do you know if there is still grazable grass out there? My pastures have long since been “done” and horses switched to hay 24/7. I suppose if I had 25 acres they might still be eating grass because it’s been mild here.

Why isn’t it possible to put hay out in their pasture? My guess is that if there was hay outside, they would eat it. Can you test this theory out by putting out a few flakes of hay during the day and seeing if they are eating them?

But yes, treating for ulcers isn’t a bad idea, no matter what.

[Saffron_Rose]

@S1969

Ok, so the horse is eating frozen winter grass for half a day?

We still have some grass here in NY but we don’t consider it actually “food” because it’s frozen and/or dormant. It’s not inedible, but it doesn’t mean it’s enough. Not to mention, by the time a pasture is freezing over, it’s been grazed down a lot unless you have really big pastures. Do you know if there is still grazable grass out there? My pastures have long since been “done” and horses switched to hay 24/7. I suppose if I had 25 acres they might still be eating grass because it’s been mild here.

Why isn’t it possible to put hay out in their pasture? My guess is that if there was hay outside, they would eat it. Can you test this theory out by putting out a few flakes of hay during the day and seeing if they are eating them?

But yes, treating for ulcers isn’t a bad idea, no matter what.

No, when there’s frost they get hay out in the field. And I’m not going to treat for ulcers without talking to a vet first.

[S1969]

@Saffron_Rose

No, when there’s frost they get hay out in the field. And I’m not going to treat for ulcers without talking to a vet first.

OK, so yes, they are getting hay or not? You did not suggest that there would be hay put out in the field - you only mentioned beet pulp. Is there any grass left in their pasture?

Honestly, it’s hard to help you.

Definitely talk to a vet. But it sounds like your horse needs more food. And for most horses, that means more hay.

[Saffron_Rose]

@S1969

OK, so yes, they are getting hay or not? You did not suggest that there would be hay put out in the field - you only mentioned beet pulp. Is there any grass left in their pasture?

Honestly, it’s hard to help you.

Definitely talk to a vet. But it sounds like your horse needs more food. And for most horses, that means more hay.

Yeah they’re getting hay and there is still loads of grass (field is 2.5 acres).