We merged a few threads on this topic into one to avoid duplication. Our apologies for any confusion in the chronology of posts, etc.
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So horrible. I was just there a few weeks ago. I feel just aweful for everyone involved.
I read one article that stated the horse was being treated for EPM.
RIP Erica. 
[QUOTE=gottagrey;6135533]
The article aslo says the owners were vacationing in Fl and was to help racing injuries (I’m paraphrasing) Owner is reportedly Jacqueline Mars. What a sad sad thing.[/QUOTE]
The horse was an event horse not a racehorse. It is said to help heal an injury that can happen with any sport horse, including a racehorse.
This is so terribly sad to me. May Erica and the horse rest in peace, and may Sorcha recover quickly. I’m also sending positive thoughts to those who work at the facility, or own horses who were there, or anyone involved with the horse’s owner or rider.
For those who are criticizing the techs for not tranq’ing, or for this that and the other thing, please understand and remember that things can happen in the blink of an eye and perhaps there was a misunderstanding about whether or not the horse had been tranq’ed, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I worked in a facility (non-horse-related) that was the site of a tragic, completely avoidable accident, and it’s not in anyone’s best interest to judge any of the techs or whoever was present. Accidents do happen.
[QUOTE=ohrebecca;6136263]
This is so terribly sad to me. May Erica and the horse rest in peace, and may Sorcha recover quickly. I’m also sending positive thoughts to those who work at the facility, or own horses who were there, or anyone involved with the horse’s owner or rider.
For those who are criticizing the techs for not tranq’ing, or for this that and the other thing, please understand and remember that things can happen in the blink of an eye and perhaps there was a misunderstanding about whether or not the horse had been tranq’ed, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I worked in a facility (non-horse-related) that was the site of a tragic, completely avoidable accident, and it’s not in anyone’s best interest to judge any of the techs or whoever was present. Accidents do happen.[/QUOTE]
And lets not forget that the media never seems to get things right, especially covering horses. WFTV kept mentioning how the horse was wearing steel boots and had he been wearing aluminum boots, this would not have happened. Finally, this morning, they used the term shoe instead of boots.
Please check over the eventing forum – correct information is being supplied by PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE, so folks can refrain from further speculation.
Also, please remember that the people who made the decisions are likely also the ones who paid the biggest price. My condolences to everyone affected, especially the family of Erica.
If there were a malfunction with the pressurization of the chamber, it would have been extremely painful for the horse - like bends for a diver - and no sedation would have overcome that situation. That certainly could have caused the horse to freak and possibly damage protective coverings on hooves and/or walls. Also, you can’t instantly depressurize a chamber.
A terrible thing to happen…
This was an horrific occurrence that completely grabbed my attention when it came over the wire. What a tragedy for all involved.
There was some helpful information discussion over FB at the time, but generally COTH has the best concentration of information, just as during the Barbaro debacle.
It would make sense to have a very remote panel to control all functions of the chamber from a distance.
A swift but deliberate and controlled depressurization would do a number of things, not the least of which could be induce ‘the bends’ in whatever living creature is inside, although if equilibrated there would be no nitrogen left to form bubbles which is what I always was told caused that painful and dangerous phenomenon. But in practical terms where do you safely vent large volumes of pure oxygen in a hurry?
I’m sure there was a reasonable, though perhaps incorrect, basis for determining not to tranq the horse. Who could blame the poor guy, if there were pressure fluctuations due to some malfunction, from reacting? Critters in sealed chambers are in environments at least as alien as humans in MRI tubes, and people used to freak often in the old narrow designs.
Incidentally, given the data on explosive mixtures of flammable gases and oxygen at atmospheric and various pressures, I don’t see anything implausible about the flatus hypothesis.
[QUOTE=wildlifer;6136528]
Please check over the eventing forum – correct information is being supplied by PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE, so folks can refrain from further speculation.[/QUOTE]
People being there, but not necessarily people understanding how hyperbaric chambers work. A malfunction that caused further depressurization or pressurization would not cause a fire or an explosion. Further pressurization would create the same discomfort as pressurization to treatment depth (actually less - the discomfort decreases after the first 10-15 feet, it’s worst closest to surface depth so the horse had already been through the worst of it), and rapid depressurization can cause bends, but that is actually quite unlikely given the shallow treatment depth and pressurization with O2.
Someone on the Eventing forum linked this article, which frankly makes the most sense:
http://www.wesh.com/hometest/30427225/detail.html
These chambers are all monitored by video, so of course they’d try a shut-down once they saw the horse kicking. But even at its fastest, the chamber can only “come up” so fast (the “step down” for the human is a bit of a red herring, the person can simply dive again if they’re bent so it’s not a big deal compared to the emergent situation of a horse kicking the chamber walls. The real issue is that the rate of venting the chambers is mechanically limited; you can’t just “open the door” until the chamber is fully vented).
[QUOTE=Coanteen;6138110]
People being there, but not necessarily people understanding how hyperbaric chambers work. A malfunction that caused further depressurization or pressurization would not cause a fire or an explosion. Further pressurization would create the same discomfort as pressurization to treatment depth (actually less - the discomfort decreases after the first 10-15 feet, it’s worst closest to surface depth so the horse had already been through the worst of it), and rapid depressurization can cause bends, but that is actually quite unlikely given the shallow treatment depth and pressurization with O2.
Someone on the Eventing forum linked this article, which frankly makes the most sense:
http://www.wesh.com/hometest/30427225/detail.html
These chambers are all monitored by video, so of course they’d try a shut-down once they saw the horse kicking. But even at its fastest, the chamber can only “come up” so fast (the “step down” for the human is a bit of a red herring, the person can simply dive again if they’re bent so it’s not a big deal compared to the emergent situation of a horse kicking the chamber walls. The real issue is that the rate of venting the chambers is mechanically limited; you can’t just “open the door” until the chamber is fully vented).[/QUOTE]
Correct. And trust me - you cannot physically open the door until it is fully vented. The door seals when the pressurization starts - in order to maintain the pressure in the chamber.
And the chamber can only vent so quickly - I think at the depths of 1.5 ATMs, you could vent in about 5 minutes. Lower depths of 2-3 ATM (average was 2-2.5 ATM), it took at least 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=ohrebecca;6136263]
This is so terribly sad to me. May Erica and the horse rest in peace, and may Sorcha recover quickly. I’m also sending positive thoughts to those who work at the facility, or own horses who were there, or anyone involved with the horse’s owner or rider.
For those who are criticizing the techs for not tranq’ing, or for this that and the other thing, please understand and remember that things can happen in the blink of an eye and perhaps there was a misunderstanding about whether or not the horse had been tranq’ed, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I worked in a facility (non-horse-related) that was the site of a tragic, completely avoidable accident, and it’s not in anyone’s best interest to judge any of the techs or whoever was present. Accidents do happen.[/QUOTE]
The thing that is so tragic is that this was not a “completely unavoidable accident.” I used to work at one of the top equine hospitals in the country, and we had a hyperbaric chamber. Although I was never going to be a tech for it they still ran through all of the protocol.
The head tech said that there is no smoking anywhere near the building. No use of any flammable products on the horse (show sheen, fly spray, hoof oil). And that even though the inside is lined halfway up with rubber, NO SHOES ON HORSES GOING IN. There are still studs tacking the rubber up on the walls and a horse could kick or rear high enough to hit metal.
So yes the horse wasn’t tranquilized. But I think the bigger issue, and the one that makes this whole situation more sickening is that corners were cut, shoes were not pulled, and 2 people and a horse had to pay the price for poor protocol.
[QUOTE=JacquelineNicole;6138955]
The thing that is so tragic is that this was not a “completely unavoidable accident.” I used to work at one of the top equine hospitals in the country, and we had a hyperbaric chamber. Although I was never going to be a tech for it they still ran through all of the protocol.
The head tech said that there is no smoking anywhere near the building. No use of any flammable products on the horse (show sheen, fly spray, hoof oil). And that even though the inside is lined halfway up with rubber, NO SHOES ON HORSES GOING IN. There are still studs tacking the rubber up on the walls and a horse could kick or rear high enough to hit metal.
So yes the horse wasn’t tranquilized. But I think the bigger issue, and the one that makes this whole situation more sickening is that corners were cut, shoes were not pulled, and 2 people and a horse had to pay the price for poor protocol.[/QUOTE]
Can I ask where you worked? Because I was an HBOT tech at one of the top equine hospitals in the national. And shoes were allowed on horses with the precautions I’ve mentioned before. I have never required a horse to have shoes pulled. You cannot require racehorses in active training who come in a few times a week for training to pull shoes each and every time.
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;6138971]
Can I ask where you worked? Because I was an HBOT tech at one of the top equine hospitals in the national. And shoes were allowed on horses with the precautions I’ve mentioned before. I have never required a horse to have shoes pulled. You cannot require racehorses in active training who come in a few times a week for training to pull shoes each and every time.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for pointing out this mistake. Yes racehorses do commonly go in with shoes. But that is because they wear aluminum racing plates that won’t cause a spark. The majority of other horses though, including event horses like this one wear steel which are not allowed because they cause a spark. Although if the horse is really in bad shape and needs daily treatment I don’t see why they would be in training still, but I guess there are those types of people out there. If you do any research talking to VETERINARIANS about hyperbarics and horses you will find that steel is not allowed in them.
I worked at Hagyard Equine Medical Institute and still work closely with many of their field vets that take care of the hunter/jumpers that I groom for now.
I am tired of this fallacy that aluminum will not spark. Watch your sparklers on the 4th of July. That is powdered aluminum burning. There is a reason aluminum is used in high powered explosives. It ignites and burns beautifully in pure oxygen environments if you nick it enough.
[QUOTE=JacquelineNicole;6139012]
Thank you for pointing out this mistake. Yes racehorses do commonly go in with shoes. But that is because they wear aluminum racing plates that won’t cause a spark. The majority of other horses though, including event horses like this one wear steel which are not allowed because they cause a spark. Although if the horse is really in bad shape and needs daily treatment I don’t see why they would be in training still, but I guess there are those types of people out there. If you do any research talking to VETERINARIANS about hyperbarics and horses you will find that steel is not allowed in them.
I worked at Hagyard Equine Medical Institute and still work closely with many of their field vets that take care of the hunter/jumpers that I groom for now.[/QUOTE]
I was a Hagyard HBOT and medicine tech for several years. I guarantee you that I have put steel shoes into that chamber as has every HBOT tech that has worked there. Every single pair of shoes, whether front or back, were wrapped in elasticon. I will not comment on many of the patients I have put into that chamber as it is not the public’s business - but I have put in racehorses and eventers in active training. Shoes and all.
This was a tragic accident that occurred. I do not feel that blame needs to be placed on anyone involved. Anyone working with a HBOT chamber knows the dangers involved.
Aluminum when exposed to air gets a hard outside of aluminum oxide that is chemically inert and won’t spark when struck against metal. The sparklers that you are referring to are caused by a chemical reaction that get started from high heat such as a lighter or matchstick.
Regardless of whether it is currently common practice to allow shod horses in a hyperbaric chamber, my guess is that, going forward, it will not be the case.
I’m frankly surprised it was ever allowed, even with elastikon.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;6139044]
Regardless of whether it is currently common practice to allow shod horses in a hyperbaric chamber, my guess is that, going forward, it will not be the case.
I’m frankly surprised it was ever allowed, even with elastikon.[/QUOTE]
I agree that it may be a change in protocol re: shod horses. If no shod horses are allowed, it will greatly reduce HBOT use for horses in training.
[QUOTE=JacquelineNicole;6139039]
Aluminum when exposed to air gets a hard outside of aluminum oxide that is chemically inert and won’t spark when struck against metal. The sparklers that you are referring to are caused by a chemical reaction that get started from high heat such as a lighter or matchstick.[/QUOTE]
I suggest you do a search on reactive materials. I am more than an expert in this field. Aluminum is used as a fuel in high energy explosives. When in a 100% oxygen atmosphere aluminum will burn very nicely. This is why you can cut steel an aluminum with only an oxygen jet.
The Al2O3 layer you speak of is highly porous, allowing molecular oxygen to reach pure metal. This is why your trailer gets that dull sheen (white powder) even if you leave it alone.
The only reason it does not ignite is that air is only 20% oxygen. However, if you make the aluminum into a nice powder it will spontaneously burn. See metal fires accidents.
