Kidney Crystals from Blue Buffalo

[Beethoven]

[QUOTE=Paks;8693001]
I sincerely doubt you were taught as much about nutrition as a dietitian would have been for humans. Sorry but I get far to many stupid comments from vets on nutrition. Such as you would get the same results that “you get feeding a dog a raw diet as you would feeding kibble and a pound of Crisco a day.” Sorry but even the training I had as a dietary tech way back when knows that is wrong. Don’t say protein is protein whether meat or vegetable without taking into account the amino acid ratios. Plus when it comes to cats, Taurine? No I’m not a vet but have training as medical technologist and a dietary technician. (switched majors when an eye problem made using a biocular microscope impossible but I could program with my eyes closed) So quite frankly I get tired of Vets who go I have a degree so you should believe every thing I say no matter what.

I’ve found out the hard way that with medical doctors the need to check the facts for myself as it cost me a daughter to discover that. So forgive me if I carry on the same with my vets. While I realize egos may be bruised, to me it beats losing another life because I didn’t want to offend an MD or VMD.

As far as nutrition for cats, really I haven’t been impressed by what the vets bring to the table in knowledge. Frankly I have an old book from 1963 that does a better job. Note that is a book, with pages, not google. Though I do look up current research etc. and so far they are in line with that old book.[/QUOTE]

Interesting really. Glad you’re the expert here.

Of course, I always tell my client to blindly follow everything I say because I have the degree.:sigh::sigh::sigh:

Just kidding, I don’t. I tell my clients go to google and do some reading or I provide them with reading. I would like my clients to be educated on their pets needs, diseases, etc…

Also, last I checked, my learning and expanding of knowledge did not end the day I graduated from vet school. Rather, it is required by the state to do continue education to keep my license. I would say that I learn something new everyday. I am an avid reader of research and if I feel my knowledge lacks in an area then I expanded on my own. There are veterinary nutritionist out there and of course they know more than I do about nutrition, but to blanket all general practitioners as idiots is just small minded.

As much as everyone wants to label Purina, Hills, etc as evil, fail to realize they are the companies funding lots of research about nutrition in animals to expand our knowledge.

Anyways, I know I am wasting my time even writing this post back to you as it won’t change your mind.

As far as Taurine, it is a must for cats.

I think raw diets are unnecessary and dangerous for both the pet and owners.

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8692658]
Ummmmm small detail guys. I don’t think the OP is feeding SCIENCE DIET. I believe she’s feeding C/D prescription diet, which is different and designed to eliminate crystals in the urine. Now, I would still be feeding the canned version, but it’s a bit different from just changing from BB to Science Diet.[/QUOTE]

Yes. She is on a combo of the Science Diet C/D prescription hard food (that is designed to eliminate crystals) and regular Science Diet wet food. But apparently I’m still doing everything wrong by COTH standards, so… it is what it is.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=dappled;8693692]
Yes. She is on a combo of the Science Diet C/D prescription hard food (that is designed to eliminate crystals) and regular Science Diet wet food. But apparently I’m still doing everything wrong by COTH standards, so… it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

This is delving into minutia, but it’s not Science Diet C/D. It’s Hill’s Prescription Diet C/D. Hill’s also makes Science Diet, but it’s a different product. That might be where some of the confusion is coming from.

Regular Science Diet might not be suitable for a cat with crystals…is there a reason why you’re not doing the C/D wet?

I hope your kitty improves!

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693721]
This is delving into minutia, but it’s not Science Diet C/D. It’s Hill’s Prescription Diet C/D. Hill’s also makes Science Diet, but it’s a different product. That might be where some of the confusion is coming from.

Regular Science Diet might not be suitable for a cat with crystals…is there a reason why you’re not doing the C/D wet?

I hope your kitty improves![/QUOTE]

Again, I’m just following the instructions of my vet. She told me to do one bag of the Prescription Diet and once it runs out, regular SD from now on. She told me that the Prescription Diet will clear up the crystals, and the regular SD is “maintenance” to prevent them from coming back.

[Simkie]

But you’re doing both the C/D and the Science Diet right now, right?

Regular Science Diet isn’t designed to prevent stones and crystals.

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693742]
But you’re doing both the C/D and the Science Diet right now, right?

Regular Science Diet isn’t designed to prevent stones and crystals.[/QUOTE]

Read above.

[Simkie]

Welp, you seem to have all the answers with your “Science Diet C/D” and regular Science Diet! Best of luck to you then!

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693777]
Welp, you seem to have all the answers with your “Science Diet C/D” and regular Science Diet! Best of luck to you then![/QUOTE]

I don’t understand the need for all the passive aggression?

Maybe people would be more open to suggestions if they didn’t feel as though they were being attacked by strangers hiding behind a keyboard.

On another note, to those of you who suggested Royal Canin, I was reading the ingredient list and they actually seem very similar to the Prescription C/D she’s getting now. Can anyone explain why you chose Royal Canin?

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=dappled;8693788]
I don’t understand the need for all the passive aggression? [/QUOTE]

Uh, what???

@dappled;8691551

I didn’t realize that everyone here was more knowledgeable than a licensed veterinarian. If you think it’s such garbage, what do you feed your pets?

@dappled;8691977

I do not recall asking for expert internet opinions on my cat’s nutrition or the advice of my vet.

[QUOTE=dappled;8692147]Again, that is in no way asking for personal opinions on what I’m doing now. As I said, this is what my vet told me. She told me that SD is the only proven food to prevent crystals.

I asked for other people’s experiences with crystals and what foods their pets were on when they developed them. I did not ask what you all thought of my vet’s advice or our new regiment. Very different.[/QUOTE]

@dappled;8693692

Yes. She is on a combo of the Science Diet C/D prescription hard food (that is designed to eliminate crystals) and regular Science Diet wet food. But apparently I’m still doing everything wrong by COTH standards, so… it is what it is.

In nearly EVERY reply you’ve posted, you’ve thrown in some barbed snark.

This is a discussion board. We discuss. People have tried to have a discussion with you, but you’ve been very clear that you don’t want to HAVE a discussion. Why did you even post?

It’s not even clear what you’re feeding, between saying that the vet says S/D is the only thing to prevent crystals to saying she’s on Science Diet C/D to saying that the vet said to feed the C/D and then switch to regular Science Diet, but you’re feeding both now. Maybe you should ask your vet why she’s recommending Science Diet for maintenance when she’s stated that S/D is the only food that will prevent crystals (per what you said?)

Seriously, good luck with your cat. I’m glad she’s improving. Vets are not infallible, and you might want to do some of your own research.

[DrBeckett]

Are you under the assumption that we study nutrition for every animal but cats? That is insane. We were even taught how to feed a ferret appropriately. We learned how to feed cats with renal dz, hyperthyroidism, cancer, you name it. Of course we learned nutrition about cats! SMDH.

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693805]
Uh, what???

In nearly EVERY reply you’ve posted, you’ve thrown in some barbed snark.

This is a discussion board. We discuss. People have tried to have a discussion with you, but you’ve been very clear that you don’t want to HAVE a discussion. Why did you even post?

It’s not even clear what you’re feeding, between saying that the vet says S/D is the only thing to prevent crystals to saying she’s on Science Diet C/D to saying that the vet said to feed the C/D and then switch to regular Science Diet, but you’re feeding both now.

Seriously, good luck with your cat. I’m glad she’s improving. Vets are not infallible, and you might want to do some of your own research.[/QUOTE]

I could take the time to quote everyone else’s snarky comments, but I won’t. The point is, no one here is “discussing” anything. It started as immediately bashing me and the instructions of my vet, so it didn’t get off on a great start.

Also to clarify, when I’m saying SD, I mean Science Diet. It’s an abbreviation. The food she’s on now is the Hills Prescription C/D, followed by regular SD. I apologize if that was what caused the confusion? I thought it was fairly clear but I can now see why that would cause confusion.

The vet said it was okay to give her SD wet in addition to the Prescription C/D because it is dry. So the only reason for that is purely to get some wet food into her diet, and because that’s what I was told to switch to following the C/D. It’s not interfering in the C/D treatment.

If the consensus was that my vet was 100% wrong and that I should do my own research, there was probably a way to say that other than the way it was said. Since here we are, on page 3, and nothing has really been established other than miscommunications and internet bickering. I would be happy to discuss it further with my vet, or even get a second opinion, but I’m also sure they love to hear, “Well, I know that despite the fact that you’re a licensed professional and this is what I was instructed to do, I was reading on the internet, anndd…” :lol:

[Simkie]

Wow, no one bashed you. People provided their opinion on various foods. Which is what a discussion IS.

Is your vet saying “feed the cat S/D”? If so, she’s mostly likely talking about Hill’s Prescription Diet S/D, which yep–is a stones/crystals diet and will dissolve struvite stones and prevent them from forming. Would really make sense to have a cat prone to stuff like that on S/D.

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693865]
Wow, no one bashed you. People provided their opinion on various foods. Which is what a discussion IS.

Is your vet saying “feed the cat S/D”? If so, she’s mostly likely talking about Hill’s Prescription Diet S/D, which yep–is a stones/crystals diet and will dissolve struvite stones and prevent them from forming. Would really make sense to have a cat prone to stuff like that on S/D.[/QUOTE]

Now that you mention that, I didn’t even realize there was an S/D. She told me “the regular science diet,” or at least, that’s what I thought. I thought she meant just plain old, regular feline Science Diet. Maybe I misunderstood that or she didn’t explain it well.

https://www.chewy.com/hills-prescription-diet-sd-urinary/dp/54748?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Hill's%20Prescription%20Diet&utm_term=&gclid=CMLH-rXLls0CFdcagQodJeAMHw

So THIS is the food you’re talking about? Yeah, I did not know this existed. So the C/D is the treatment, and the S/D is the maintenance? Okay, I get it now. That is probably what my vet meant, but somewhere along the line it got misinterpreted. Might have something to do with the fact that the C/D and S/D are Hills, but NOT Science Diet. I just now finally got that.

However, the ingredients in the C/D & S/D compared with the Royal Canin are very similar. I know the consensus is to watch for rice/corn/carb ingredients, which they both have. Is that just because cats with urinary issues need a higher carb diet?

[Simkie]

No, no cats really “need” carbs–least of all a bladder cat. That carb load is why a lot of people don’t like the Hills or RC stuff.

Perhaps one of the many vets who have posted on this thread can advise about the differences between C/D and S/D, or you can have a phone call with your own. The only crystal cat I had was calcium oxalate and that’s a whole different ball of wax.

My own preference is no RX diet unless other diets have proven ineffective, and then I go with Hill’s. I had a kidney cat on Royal Canin years ago and a recall issue with the food lead to her death. My own personal perception is that Hill’s has better quality control, but haven’t ever done the research to back that up. Royal Canin was incredibly unhelpful and rude when I was going through that.

You may be able to manage your cat on a high quality wet diet, which would probably be preferable for kidney health as well.

[MDMom]

[QUOTE=Paks;8693001]
I sincerely doubt you were taught as much about nutrition as a dietitian would have been for humans. Sorry but I get far to many stupid comments from vets on nutrition. Such as you would get the same results that “you get feeding a dog a raw diet as you would feeding kibble and a pound of Crisco a day.” Sorry but even the training I had as a dietary tech way back when knows that is wrong. Don’t say protein is protein whether meat or vegetable without taking into account the amino acid ratios. Plus when it comes to cats, Taurine? No I’m not a vet but have training as medical technologist and a dietary technician. (switched majors when an eye problem made using a biocular microscope impossible but I could program with my eyes closed) So quite frankly I get tired of Vets who go I have a degree so you should believe every thing I say no matter what.

I’ve found out the hard way that with medical doctors the need to check the facts for myself as it cost me a daughter to discover that. So forgive me if I carry on the same with my vets. While I realize egos may be bruised, to me it beats losing another life because I didn’t want to offend an MD or VMD.

As far as nutrition for cats, really I haven’t been impressed by what the vets bring to the table in knowledge. Frankly I have an old book from 1963 that does a better job. Note that is a book, with pages, not google. Though I do look up current research etc. and so far they are in line with that old book.[/QUOTE]

How insulting. What is your profession? Turn about is fair play.

[Paks]

[QUOTE=MDMom;8693906]
How insulting. What is your profession? Turn about is fair play.[/QUOTE]
Well if I had insulted one doctor instead of being polite my daughter might have lived. If I had insulted another my cancer might have been caught 4 years earlier.

My profession is one where when mistakes are made they are put up for public scrutiny for years if not centuries. Defense.

[dappled]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8693903]
No, no cats really “need” carbs–least of all a bladder cat. That carb load is why a lot of people don’t like the Hills or RC stuff.

Perhaps one of the many vets who have posted on this thread can advise about the differences between C/D and S/D, or you can have a phone call with your own. The only crystal cat I had was calcium oxalate and that’s a whole different ball of wax.

My own preference is no RX diet unless other diets have proven ineffective, and then I go with Hill’s. I had a kidney cat on Royal Canin years ago and a recall issue with the food lead to her death. My own personal perception is that Hill’s has better quality control, but haven’t ever done the research to back that up. Royal Canin was incredibly unhelpful and rude when I was going through that.

You may be able to manage your cat on a high quality wet diet, which would probably be preferable for kidney health as well.[/QUOTE]

Okay, thank you. I will definitely have a conversation with my vet to clear up the confusion!

[Justmyluck]

[QUOTE=Paks;8691559]
Actually vets aren’t really taught that much about cat nutrition.[/QUOTE]

Ehh I have taken 3 nutrition courses in undergrad and two in vet school and nutrition is constantly talked about in our medicine courses. So I beg to differ with this statement. We also have several nutritional talks that come to our school and while some are sponsored by pet food companies it is super rare for them to actually talk about their diets at all. As they are all boarded nutritionists first and company hires second. They’ve never pushed their food.

Hell I was taught how to properly feed rabbits.

This argument is such a broad statement and flawed.

[ASBJumper]

Ok, OP finally clarified that she is feeding wet food on top of the prescription dry. That works.

As for your request for experiences with crystals, OP, my male cat had crystals when he was on Science Diet kibble. I switched to a mix of raw/canned, and the crystals are gone and I have not had an issue with him since. I never really had my female tested as she never had urinary or health issues, other than anal glands that need to be expressed 3-4 times a year (on ANY food - though to be honest i’ve been able to get away with once a year since she’s been on the better wet diet).

My cats have gotten some Blue Buffalo canned food off and on over the years, no issues with it.

[Ghazzu]

OP, do you have any information on the composition of the crystals your cat had?

They’re not necessarily struvite…