Kittens... When do they stop being terrorists?

why ever would you wish for the terror to stop? it’s my favorite thing about kittens - everything is a mount to scale, a challenge to climb, a foot to attack/subdue! shenanigans, chaos, disorder! my element :slight_smile:

i’m actually sad - one of mine who used to be a real hellion as a kitten has quieted down with old age - BORING! luckily, my other is in permanent ‘catten’ phase and a polydactyl kitten was just added to the family.

i think with extra digits comes extra responsibly to raise havoc; he is certainly doing his part.

Normal cats: around age 1 or 2
Abyssinian from the SPCA: Still terrorist age 6 1/2… LOUD, demanding, athletic, skinny, parkour-doing, swat-monster who MUST BE PICKED UP, NO WAIT I WANT TO JUMP DOWN. May be permanent state of being… :dead: :lol:

Yes, PLEASE ADVISE on this - my cat is 5 and he is still a terrorist. Sneak ninja-style attacks. Random 3am zooming. Demanding to be fed EXACTLY at 5:30am regardless of what time I went to bed the night before (and despite the fact that he has an AUTOMATIC FEEDER). Attacking the dog. Attacking the humans. Attacking the bar stools. Attacking shadows. Jumping up on top of the shower door. Jumping into the shower. Getting stuck inside the shower and yowling for help to get out. Destroying area rugs. “Redecorating” his bathroom with cat litter…

My cat was a total terrorist of a kitten - no fear, totally in your face, would steal food, got into absolutely everything, would sprint around like a lunatic, etc.

Bad news - he’s now 8.5 years old and he’s still every bit as naughty as he was as a baby. :lol:

(He doesn’t bite, though… maybe your guy will grow out of that?)

Just found a hole chewed in the 2gal ziploc bag full of crunchies stored in the basement. I wonder who did that? Maybe the little cat who chewed the crap out of the treat pouch after carrying it upstairs?

[QUOTE=cnvh;8903730]
Some of you may recall my thread on here some months back, about the kitten I found next to his deceased mama along the side of the road. He’s doing well and is growing up into a beautiful tuxie-- he is scared of NOTHING and is getting into EVERYTHING. :lol: He gets along well with my two adult Maine Coons, and other than the daily wrestling matches and Indy-500’s around my house, all is well in the kingdom. Oh, and he went in for The Big Snip about a month ago, so his “boy bits” are already long gone.

While I adore him and I think he is very much a “people” cat-- he follows me EVERYWHERE, is always underfoot, sleeps on the bed with me, comes when called, has never met a stranger he didn’t like, etc.-- the only time I can pet him without being attacked is when he first wakes up or is about to pass out. Otherwise, without fail, he tries to eat my hand. :frowning: He’s not vicious about it-- he’s never drawn blood-- but I would like to be able to pet him like a normal cat!!

My other two boys are love-bugs and will flop over for belly rubs, but the devil-kitten is having none of it. Please tell me this piranha thing is a phase, and he will eventually grow into a cat that enjoys being petted???[/QUOTE]

I think orphans kittens lack the filters that kittens get from a litter experience. A year ago I inherited a 10 day old kitten. We tube fed her for 3 or 4 days then she used a bottle and within a couple weeks or so of that she could lap milk replacer from a bowl.

As she grew our chihuahua’s became her litter mates and our old cats became her targets. :slight_smile: To this day she leap frogs off of them if she isn’t leaping over one. She may be petted if you put in a request and the Petting Approval Committee approves your request. Woe to the fool who trys to pet her without committee approval. Think “Walking Dead”.

Last week I took her to work for her yearly vax. She sat in a litter box and hissed at anyone who looked into her hospital cage. When it was time for shots the techs gave up trying to catch her and called me back. I opened the cage and scruffed her. She grabbed at the open wire door with all 4 feet so with her self inflicted embedded mode on the door the Doc vaccinated her. :slight_smile:

But we love her. She loves life and is a cat’s cat.

[QUOTE=dappled;8906539]
I don’t know what you guys are talking about, my 2 year old is still a terrorist. :lol:[/QUOTE]

:lol: Mine too! She’s a hardcore snuggler but she has her moments where she sneaks up on me and tries to knock me down. Or she stalks me from around corners or behind furniture and then gallops away when she’s been spotted. I think the answer to OP’s question is: never. They never stop being some kind of terrorist.

My parents keep my 7 year old Russian Blue mix for me and he was a monster as a baby. He’s settled quite a bit-will allow some snuggling now, on his terms, though- but he still does the zoomies with his friends, and still shreds toilet paper rolls or magazines that have been left unattended. I think its hilarious. My parents keep hoping for him to grow up.

We have a 4 month old who is either the chillest cat ever or has not yet hit the terrorist stage. He does get to go to the barn with me a few days a week and play with his litter mates (I found all 4 as feral kittens and the BO graciously said to bring them there!) so I’m hoping the contact with other kittens helps keep him entertained and gives him the socialization he needs. But largely so far he is a couch potato with occasional and short lived bouts of play.

Because there must be photos…

This and this is Terrorist on the day I found him… I’m guessing he was about 5-6 weeks old? Walking kinda gangly and uncoordinated, but was OK eating canned food-- which was a good thing because I could NOT get him to use a bottle.

One month later, looking innocent with his big brother.

With his other big brother.

His audition for the next Sad Cat Diary episode.

He steals and hordes tissues.

Whole boxes of tissues.

And toilet paper. He’s very proud of himself.

I can’t pack a bag without him getting into it.

And all of a sudden, the wee kitten is practically a grown-up. :cry:

Too much cute!!!

Tuxie cats rule!

he is a cutie

If you had posted pictures in the OP we could have told you that he looks like those that never grow up, forget settling down until he is 15 and too fat to move.

Just think on the bright side, he will be always entertaining.

[QUOTE=ybiaw;8906594]
Yes, PLEASE ADVISE on this - my cat is 5 and he is still a terrorist. Sneak ninja-style attacks. Random 3am zooming. Demanding to be fed EXACTLY at 5:30am regardless of what time I went to bed the night before (and despite the fact that he has an AUTOMATIC FEEDER). Attacking the dog. Attacking the humans. Attacking the bar stools. Attacking shadows. Jumping up on top of the shower door. Jumping into the shower. Getting stuck inside the shower and yowling for help to get out. Destroying area rugs. “Redecorating” his bathroom with cat litter…[/QUOTE]

For this thread in general and this cat in particular, it’s worth learning the Hand Of God technique.

Here’s what you go: You pin down or hold the cat with your hand, all spread out. Firm, relaxed and infinitely patient. You also get into a zen state/the one you see the great horsemen use when they’ll get a scared, reactive horse to settle and get into a trailer. In that state (you have to feel it, breathe it and exude it from your eyes), you look the cat directly in the eye and say “I have All Day, cat, All Day. I’ll wait for you to catch up with my Chill.” Try taking a deep breath and sighing. That helps. In effect, the cat has to do the same thing… physically and mentally.

When kitteh has gotten to a moment of stillness (and it might not be a long one at first, so catch it and act fast), release your hand and your gaze and walk away. You should be the one to leave the scene.

Ideally, cat is surprised to find himself released and doesn’t scoot off immediately. (He might… pretending to be Chill while plotting his escape is a very Cat thing to do. Don’t worry about that. Just keep doing the Hand of God technique when the cat needs his Reset button pushed and he will learn to slow his mind down.) Even if kitteh does run off, he’ll most likely go directly to a hiding place and be still. Leaving or staying, that moment of being still says that you impressed him a little bit. You want that: You want a cat to remember that you influenced him-- you have some power and relevance in his life, you aren’t just “the help.” And the other important thing about that moment of stillness is that it is when his mind slows down and he “replays the tape” of what just happened.

This “slowing down and replaying the tape” is the most important part of the Hand of God event. You need a cat to have his experience and behavior change, but not be so scared that he can’t think about the series of events that got him trapped by God and then (most important), what he did to earn his release. Cats, like horses, don’t come knowing restraint. You have to teach them how to accept it. Trapping a cat, much like tying a horse who hasn’t been taught, will spin him up. You have to give him a different experience.

The purpose of the Hand of God technique is to teach the cat how to push that Reset Button that slows his mind down. And this will help him with all kinds of things, including accepting restraint at the vet so that, from his perspective, the whole ordeal isn’t so bad.

Ideally, you’d subject the cat to the Hand of God when he was already a bit tired. It’s not fair to ask a bored, full of energy cat to sit still and tolerate that pressure. And it will bum him out that God (who usually plays with him or pets him/plays with him On Demand) is now calling the shots. Also, you’d only embark on the Hand of God technique when you really had the time and willingness to get into the “I have All Day” zen state. Really, it doesn’t take that long. But cats are experts at filibuster, so don’t go in there unprepared.

Hope this helps.

ETA: Just looked at his portfolio. What a great cat! But you can see that this one needs to Get Religion. Compare the first, last and toilet paper shots especially. This cat has a huge and innocent ego. It never occurs to him that anyone would want anything different from him that what he chooses to do. Really, he’s lovely AND also a terrorist. You can’t get mad at a cat like this, even if you decide to reform him. It’s not a cat’s job to guess that he should make pleasing us his business.

[QUOTE=mvp;8907346]
For this thread in general and this cat in particular, it’s worth learning the Hand Of God technique.

Here’s what you go: You pin down or hold the cat with your hand, all spread out. Firm, relaxed and infinitely patient. You also get into a zen state/the one you see the great horsemen use when they’ll get a scared, reactive horse to settle and get into a trailer. In that state (you have to feel it, breathe it and exude it from your eyes), you look the cat directly in the eye and say “I have All Day, cat, All Day. I’ll wait for you to catch up with my Chill.” Try taking a deep breath and sighing. That helps. In effect, the cat has to do the same thing… physically and mentally.

When kitteh has gotten to a moment of stillness (and it might not be a long one at first, so catch it and act fast), release your hand and your gaze and walk away. You should be the one to leave the scene.

Ideally, cat is surprised to find himself released and doesn’t scoot off immediately. (He might… pretending to be Chill while plotting his escape is a very Cat thing to do. Don’t worry about that. Just keep doing the Hand of God technique when the cat needs his Reset button pushed and he will learn to slow his mind down.) Even if kitteh does run off, he’ll most likely go directly to a hiding place and be still. Leaving or staying, that moment of being still says that you impressed him a little bit. You want that: You want a cat to remember that you influenced him-- you have some power and relevance in his life, you aren’t just “the help.” And the other important thing about that moment of stillness is that it is when his mind slows down and he “replays the tape” of what just happened.

This “slowing down and replaying the tape” is the most important part of the Hand of God event. You need a cat to have his experience and behavior change, but not be so scared that he can’t think about the series of events that got him trapped by God and then (most important), what he did to earn his release. Cats, like horses, don’t come knowing restraint. You have to teach them how to accept it. Trapping a cat, much like tying a horse who hasn’t been taught, will spin him up. You have to give him a different experience.

The purpose of the Hand of God technique is to teach the cat how to push that Reset Button that slows his mind down. And this will help him with all kinds of things, including accepting restraint at the vet so that, from his perspective, the whole ordeal isn’t so bad.

Ideally, you’d subject the cat to the Hand of God when he was already a bit tired. It’s not fair to ask a bored, full of energy cat to sit still and tolerate that pressure. And it will bum him out that God (who usually plays with him or pets him/plays with him On Demand) is now calling the shots. Also, you’d only embark on the Hand of God technique when you really had the time and willingness to get into the “I have All Day” zen state. Really, it doesn’t take that long. But cats are experts at filibuster, so don’t go in there unprepared.

Hope this helps.

ETA: Just looked at his portfolio. What a great cat! But you can see that this one needs to Get Religion. Compare the first, last and toilet paper shots especially. This cat has a huge and innocent ego. It never occurs to him that anyone would want anything different from him that what he chooses to do. Really, he’s lovely AND also a terrorist. You can’t get mad at a cat like this, even if you decide to reform him. It’s not a cat’s job to guess that he should make pleasing us his business.[/QUOTE]

With dogs, that is called the alpha roll.

Many have been bitten trying that, I expect they may be scratched with cats.

As you so well describe, the intent is not really to restrain, but to teach self restrain.
The trouble, you really can’t practice it, you have to be just right the first time, something many cat owners just are not.

Maybe practicing first with a stuffed toy could help, if someone wants to go there?

In some puppy training books, something similar is taught to very little puppies that really can’t object, mostly to gauge their reaction, to assess their temperament, but even that is considered more of a hit and miss way to do so.

You explained that very well, thank you.

OP, that kitty is TOO CUTE! But I can tell you even in those first photos that he was always going to be a holy terror. :slight_smile:

My youngest two just turned a year old October 4. Maximus Imperius is in his ‘eat everything’ stage which I just don’t remember ANY of my other kitties doing - cotton balls (esp. if they’ve been used; he digs them out of the trash - WHO DOES THAT?!), plastic, make-up applicators . . . he also learned, after watching me once, how to pull tissues out of the box. Tiny, his brother, is barely 5 pounds and still loves to run and jump halfway up my back, then snuggle in in head to my neck - “I wuuuv you, Mummy!” Sporting several nasty scratches from that right now. Both were bottle fed from Day One.

One bottle kitty, Mick the Psycho Demon Cat, is affectionate only on her terms - you may pet her head, and sometimes her sides and back, but when she’s done, she’s DONE. The Dalek Cat (Angel) was another bottle baby who doesn’t like being petted at all - sometimes, you can pet her between the eyes, or about 3 strokes down her head. Then she’s done. Continue at your own risk.

Most of my cats dislike belly rubs, BTW. Maximus loves them, and so does Rascal, but they’re the only ones. The others consider it threatening and/or rude.

[QUOTE=mvp;8907346]
For this thread in general and this cat in particular, it’s worth learning the Hand Of God technique.

Here’s what you go: You pin down or hold the cat with your hand, all spread out. Firm, relaxed and infinitely patient. You also get into a zen state/the one you see the great horsemen use when they’ll get a scared, reactive horse to settle and get into a trailer. In that state (you have to feel it, breathe it and exude it from your eyes), you look the cat directly in the eye and say “I have All Day, cat, All Day. I’ll wait for you to catch up with my Chill.” Try taking a deep breath and sighing. That helps. In effect, the cat has to do the same thing… physically and mentally.

When kitteh has gotten to a moment of stillness (and it might not be a long one at first, so catch it and act fast), release your hand and your gaze and walk away. You should be the one to leave the scene.

Ideally, cat is surprised to find himself released and doesn’t scoot off immediately. (He might… pretending to be Chill while plotting his escape is a very Cat thing to do. Don’t worry about that. Just keep doing the Hand of God technique when the cat needs his Reset button pushed and he will learn to slow his mind down.) Even if kitteh does run off, he’ll most likely go directly to a hiding place and be still. Leaving or staying, that moment of being still says that you impressed him a little bit. You want that: You want a cat to remember that you influenced him-- you have some power and relevance in his life, you aren’t just “the help.” And the other important thing about that moment of stillness is that it is when his mind slows down and he “replays the tape” of what just happened.

This “slowing down and replaying the tape” is the most important part of the Hand of God event. You need a cat to have his experience and behavior change, but not be so scared that he can’t think about the series of events that got him trapped by God and then (most important), what he did to earn his release. Cats, like horses, don’t come knowing restraint. You have to teach them how to accept it. Trapping a cat, much like tying a horse who hasn’t been taught, will spin him up. You have to give him a different experience.

The purpose of the Hand of God technique is to teach the cat how to push that Reset Button that slows his mind down. And this will help him with all kinds of things, including accepting restraint at the vet so that, from his perspective, the whole ordeal isn’t so bad.

Ideally, you’d subject the cat to the Hand of God when he was already a bit tired. It’s not fair to ask a bored, full of energy cat to sit still and tolerate that pressure. And it will bum him out that God (who usually plays with him or pets him/plays with him On Demand) is now calling the shots. Also, you’d only embark on the Hand of God technique when you really had the time and willingness to get into the “I have All Day” zen state. Really, it doesn’t take that long. But cats are experts at filibuster, so don’t go in there unprepared.

Hope this helps.

ETA: Just looked at his portfolio. What a great cat! But you can see that this one needs to Get Religion. Compare the first, last and toilet paper shots especially. This cat has a huge and innocent ego. It never occurs to him that anyone would want anything different from him that what he chooses to do. Really, he’s lovely AND also a terrorist. You can’t get mad at a cat like this, even if you decide to reform him. It’s not a cat’s job to guess that he should make pleasing us his business.[/QUOTE]

MVP, I think I love you. The Terrorist may disagree later on after he gets sent to Sunday School though! :smiley:

[QUOTE=Bluey;8907398]
With dogs, that is called the alpha roll.

Many have been bitten trying that, I expect they may be scratched with cats.

As you so well describe, the intent is not really to restrain, but to teach self restrain.
The trouble, you really can’t practice it, you have to be just right the first time, something many cat owners just are not.

Maybe practicing first with a stuffed toy could help, if someone wants to go there?

In some puppy training books, something similar is taught to very little puppies that really can’t object, mostly to gauge their reaction, to assess their temperament, but even that is considered more of a hit and miss way to do so.

You explained that very well, thank you.[/QUOTE]

I’m not a dog guru, so I can’t compare the cat Hand of God technique to the alpha roll you describe. But parts seem similar-- particularly, the domination that’s slow and sure produced by the more “alpha” being. If you watch cats play, they also do this: All are wrestling and even meowing when it hurts. But when it gets too much, one says “Uncle!,” stops moving, looks at the other one in the eye and then leaves. That’s a cat drawing a boundary. The Portlandia cats say “Cacao!” but it’s the same difference-- a kitteh safe word.

To me, this kind of interaction isn’t about power, per se. After all, the cat who said “Stop!” wasn’t the one winning. But the key is that all fun and attention stop when the perp gets too rowdy. I think that’s the essence of the lesson in this situation and cats “get it.”

I think that a cat who grows up without siblings doesn’t get to practice the “where’s the line between fun slap-n-tickle and too much?” And people often suck at the boundary-drawing ritual that is native to cats. Worse, people use their hands to play with cats and then decide to use the same hand to pin the cat down. I mean, how’s a body to know the difference? (I think you can teach kitteh the difference, but it involves your whole body and a ritual; it’s really graduate-level cat wrangling).

With respect to being perfect or not getting hurt: I don’t think you have to get the Hand of God ritual 100% perfect the first time. And God knows that kitteh won’t submit and be trained in one session. You just need have the hold last long enough to make the point; ideally, it’s also your idea to let go. If that has to be short, just get in, make it your decision to let go, and get out.

And cats who scratch or bite are just really unbroke. Again, it takes some experience and physical skill to wrangle cats in such a way that you keep the business end of the cat pointed away from you. It’s kind of like handling a gun. Pay attention to where you point that thing! Oh, and Carhartt duck jackets make ideal anti-cat armor. If I’m wearing my work gloves and my Carhartt, I’m pretty much invincible with a cat. And that makes me relaxed with an unhappy, Tasmanian-devil cat. I can have All Day for a cat if I know that teeth and claws will roll off me.

[QUOTE=cnvh;8907614]
MVP, I think I love you. The Terrorist may disagree later on after he gets sent to Sunday School though! :D[/QUOTE]

I KNOW Terrorist in the Tuxedo will hate me. From his perspective, that hate is well-deserved. God doesn’t have to be bad, but if you read the Old Testament, you’ll see that the first time folks get introduced to God, it’s kind of harsh. You could put a cat in just about any of those stories and you’d have their experience with someone being a buzz-kill and telling them what to do. It’s a rude awakening for a cat.

[QUOTE=red mares;8906822]
Just found a hole chewed in the 2gal ziploc bag full of crunchies stored in the basement. I wonder who did that? Maybe the little cat who chewed the crap out of the treat pouch after carrying it upstairs?[/QUOTE]

Do you have my cat? I have one who has done exactly that. He is so obsessed with bags that crinkle like treats that he has stolen an open bag of pansy food and strewn it all over the kitchen.

[QUOTE=Perfect10;8908467]
Do you have my cat? I have one who has done exactly that. He is so obsessed with bags that crinkle like treats that he has stolen an open bag of pansy food and strewn it all over the kitchen.[/QUOTE]

I used her food obsession to introduce her to the 18 mo nephew. The cute meter was pegged so high with the little towhead boy feeding the still kittenish little cat treats, I could have barfed.:lol:

Next time they came over, kid found the treats & cat found the kid. She’ll even let him pick her up. 4 yro niece carries her all over. Ahhh, the power of food.

I have notice her biting has more of purpose. If she bites at my hand while I’m petting her back, it’s more to pull my hand to the ears she wants scratched than to eat me.