Trust me. I’m aware, but have been brushed off by multiple vets (and to be fair I did stop chasing it after finding some other issues that seemed to fit as well). I had to push HARD for a Lyme test!
FWIW this thread pushed me to text my BO and ask if “her” vet would be more open to testing or treating for it. I have an appointment later this month to introduce the vet to the horse and do a chiro session, and at least chat about the Weirdness that is this horse!
Yeah that’s him. Noooo long term stall rest. I was being a bit exaggerative about my plans - and would definitely consult with every vet team I could. Though I’ve talked to a few people who have done it without stall rest past the hospital stay (and yeah - bone shave), just drugs and a clean sheet by doing it over fall/winter. Drugs didn’t work on him for stall rest but he’s got a calm fat mini and a pasture now.
The latest vet appointment for this horse has shown major improvement in the feet but some work to do, and the potential ulcers are indeed a concern. He’s a mess, as you can tell. But he’s shiny and fat and can rip-roar around the pasture all day long, declared sound by the vet, it’s just the subtle pain face and “witchiness” that has me wondering what’s up. EPM would make sense, as well as spinal issues 
. So, here we are.
All of this. And I guess circling back to the OPs question at hand. I think a lot of young horses that get retirement diagnosis (they won’t be fit or safe to ride) also then fall off the cliff of other signs of abnormal behavior. I’d consider euthanasia of that horse and when the time felt right and I felt emotionally ready would look for a new horse. But idk if I would call it putting down one horse just to afford a more “useful” one.
For the sake of being on topic for the thread I have euthanized a “pasture sound” horse.
I bought a 10ish y/o kill pen (undisclosed) mare off a very unethical seller (yes, no PPE). They knew she had feet/teeth problems because she took off a little at the last minute because the teeth/feet needed to be done. The first thing I did was address the broken half rotted tooth, broken and abscessed jawbone. She was plenty happy in the pasture and she was fine as long as you didn’t push her too much. She would meet me at the gate, follow me around, generally be a sweet in your pocket mare……in the pasture. Happy to run, buck and play. She tolerated an adult grooming her and basic vet work, but any kind of intensive issue and she would strike and rear. Once she threw the twitch across the room.
After about 6 months she got tricky to do her feet. At first I blamed the farrier because it started after he hit her in the face (where the broken jaw/tooth had been) with the rasp. But after a few more tries at trimming her she required sedation. If you did not sedate her she would pull back.
I eventually got her into a trainer (same one who wanted to do EPM treatments on my current horse). After a week she wanted to X-ray the feet. The vet described it as “holes” in her navicular bones and would have euthanized right then. We could try “stuff” but was doubtful it would help. I decided to try stuff and had the trainer move to focusing on ground manners. The next week the trainers kid was grooming her and for no reason she went up and over. I made the appointment the next day. She was absolutely the sweetest thing on earth that day, even letting my kid give her all the attention she didn’t normally allow and she fought like hell when it came time.
The horse was absolutely fine, and could have been managed, in the pasture 98% of the time. But that 2 %, she was very clearly miserable.
After my experience this last year I would euthanize. My Wobbler was sound, but he told me he wasn’t comfortable. Eye and nose wrinkles. The biting at my hands that got more serious in the last couple of weeks. I wanted so badly to give him my senior’s Previcox, but I couldn’t risk ulcers.
We all have our own ideas about what is acceptable, and those ideas change with experience. Chronic pain face, even if we can’t identify the cause (maybe especially if we can’t identify the cause) is enough for me.
I would not describe this horse as happy and pasture sound though. A horse that cannot be trimmed unless sedated – very different from a little bute – due to pain, who cannot be groomed (again presumably due to pain), and whom the veterinarian wanted to euthanize? That is NOT a happy, pasture sound horse! You clearly made the right call to put her down.
But did she though? Is a horse with an incurable cancer, drastic muscle wasting and defined lameness sound and happy? Because to me that sounds a whole lot more like “very poor prognosis with a likelihood to deteriorate quickly”.
Agreed. That’s a sick horse who isn’t getting better. Definitely a euthanasia candidate!
It’s a complex, personal and subjective topic. Some folks might define pasture sound as still able to walk around, eat and get up after rolling. If that’s sufficient for them and their vet, I’m not, let me repeat am not, telling them otherwise. But it would not be sufficient for me to feel confident that a horse was happy and comfortable.
There are undoubtedly a wide range of unique circumstances and perspectives. For example, I live and keep horses on flat ground, without rocks or mud in a climate without snow, ice or frozen ground.
So a horse with a condition that made it impossible to keep him comfortable enough navigating steep terrain or ice wouldn’t be an obstacle for pasture soundness at my farm but very well might spell the end in another climate. Conversely, a horse with unmanageable (not responding to treatment) severe anhidrosis would be at risk in my very long, very hot summers and I would have to carefully consider if such a horse could be kept safely. Whereas in a cooler climate, the anhidrosis horse might be able to be sustained easily enough through a shorter, milder summer with cooler nights.
I just saw a post somewhere else, someone saying that they had decided to retire their kissing Spine horse, fairly young. To their dismay their horse now has horrid back pain even while hanging out in pasture for a few months. The person was asking for advice. (Good for them!)
But it kind of goes back to the original question. How sound are these horses really to just hang out in pasture? I’m sure it is a case-by-case thing. But all I know is living with chronic back pain, at least for a human, is not a joke. So it’s my guess that if you’re going to retire a horse with back pain, you still are going to have to continue the maintenance to have a chance at a comfortable horse.
Oof yep. My experience exactly. The maintenance costs on him haven’t changed vs when he was rideable (they’ve actually gone up). I keep trying things, bodywork has helped, I’m playing with hoof boots and magnesium and injections/painkillers/stretchy work. I know when MY back hurts it’s no joke just laying in bed breathing.
Don’t envy that situation. Plus if its anything similar to humans there is a high correlation between chronic pain and depression and they can each fuel each other. I assume it is similar in animals at some extent!
Very much so. I watch his attitude like a hawk and he makes me crazy on the daily! I’m consulting a new vet next month about it.
Yep, I’ve seen it with my dad. He has horrible back problems (spinal stenosis, lots of arthritis, has had bulging disc in the past. Now dealing with nerve issues) I’ve seen him in immense pain. He’s okayish now after another surgery but still has nerve issues and has issues with his legs now. It’s tough.
It’s such a big part of any body to have hurt chronically.
I wouldn’t be willing to keep a horse in unmanaged pain whereas there were no viable options for improvement. It’s very different to have a horse that is “made lame / in pain” from ridden exercise and a horse that is lame / in pain just toodling around his pasture.
My own experience with back pain and imaging leaves me with the distinct impression of “it’s complicated” even with a patient that can verbalize the exact sensation. My images show upper and mid spinal issues that “should” hurt. But they don’t. At most they make me stiff or a bit tight or sore after unusual effort. My SI looks pretty durn normal on images but hurt enough to prevent normal life function as evidenced by SI injections providing complete relief that’s held for two years now. I’m well aware that human medicine =/= veterinary medicine but I think I’m safe to conclude that it’s likely at least as difficult to treat back pain in horses as humans.
I was almost in this situation. Had a horse with KS, which was well-managed. Then he developed another issue that would have meant surgery to deal with that, and then with the goal of retiring him. We decided that we did not want to have him retire to a place where his KS would not be managed and elected to PTS. It was heart-wrenching and I still to this day question whether it was the right thing to do.
Yep back pain is complicated. Just like you hear about horses having horrific x-rays and absolutely no issues. And the other way around.
I totally understand that feeling. You were trying to do the best for your horse under a really hard circumstances and I’m sure you did make the right choice.
This is just one case where I hope in 10-15 years we have wild improvements in our understanding of horse back pathology.
As a fun little anecdotal story I was having a series of x-rays taken for an unrelated injury and my neck was imaged. Lets just say there are abnormalities to be seen, but I have never dealt with any related issues or pain from my 'bad X-rays".
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