Lameness Locator

[JumperMan]

I am looking for information, and experiences regarding the Lameness Locator. We have had two vets use them on our horse. I am not convinced of their effectiveness. My lack of confidence is primarily due to veterinarians being unable to explain exactly how it works.

When I look at the Equinosis web site, they don’t say anything other than it uses two accelerometers (one at the pelvis area and one on the head, both single axis measuring vertical al acceleration ) and one (I believe attitude gyro) above one hoof.

The web site says essentially nothing about how it works, except a couple of words about some kinematic equations. However, it goes into absolutely no detail of the algorithms or mathematical techniques used. Is the data filtered? Do they take care to not introduce phase shifts? Do they merely present results, or do they provide confidence intervals?

I am thinking that this open-loop system can’t be that complex, and thus not that difficult to explain.

One vet told me that it operates on data using frequency domain tools. This would make sense to me, but I cannot find anything that confirms this assertion. The other veterinarian suggested it was all time domain data.

Does anyone have successful experience with this tool?

Since modern sensors are extremely small, why not instrument each location with multi-axis accelerometers and gyros, and thus really see what is going on.

Also, they talk about the sensitivity of their sensors, but not the accuracy of them or the accuracy of the software, confidence bounds, etc.? Additionally, they talk about the device being able to provide an objective analysis of your horses gait, but objectiveness does not guarantee any certain level of accuracy!

Thanks for any insight that you can provide!

[trubandloki]

While you are waiting for others to respond, I think this thread talks about the same thing.

Lameness Evaluator Machine

Has anyone used these? It’s a computerized device. The vet puts one sensor on the horse’s butt, one between their ears, and one on the right fetlock. Then you trot out on a longe and in hand. The machine measures imbalance right to left and gives a readout. It measures things you can’t actually see or feel. I had my vet do a lameness check on my 17 year old mare because I thought she was going short behind when I’ve longed her. After doing this barefoot, in front boots, and with a block, in are…

[Scribbler]

Yes, that was my recent thread!

I had the vet use one on my horse and I was impressed.

The caveat is that it does not actually diagnose. It does pinpoint the gait abnormality better than the human eye.

In my case what I though was stiff hocks turned out to be a right front issue. We blocked it to the hoof. My trimmer resolved it a week later with a good trim of uneven heels.

I did not ask about the technology as I was focused on thinking about my horse.

One of my trainer friends cautioned that for PPE it can throw up warnings about problems that don’t really exist. In my case, horse needed a trim. Every time she looks off it’s just that she needs a trim I should know this by now.

So as technology it totally works. As diagnostic, it still needs smart human input. It didn’t even occur to me to ask my vet to look at the hoof. He’s a trained farrier and barefoot expert. He could have seen the issue and done the trim on the spot. But both him and I went down the must be lame inside rabbit hole. It’s really easy to do. You stop looking at the horse and look at the machine.

So if you are questioning the subtle results of a LL reading, look at your trim first!

[JumperMan]

Thanks trubandloki. I’ll check it out.

[Gardenhorse]

There are several published journal articles on the technique by Dr Keegan that likely go into more detail. However I don’t know if any of the articles are publicly available. Perhaps your vets have access and could share them with you?

https://equinosis.com/objective-lameness-evaluation-literature/

[equinelibrium]

Hi @JumperMan, I posted on the other thread but wanted to reach out here too. I wrote an undergrad thesis on using tech to objectively evaluate lameness. Send me a PM and I can share some of the resources I found. (This goes for anyone else interested too!)

[IPEsq]

The patent has some of the math in it.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7601126B2/en

[SporthorseFun]

Scribbler,

This makes so much sense. My horse was adducting at the trot (post on another thread), and had a interference injury. The farrier balanced the hooves, and that is the end of that. The horse is fine so far, although maybe something is brewing. I told them, though, that medial lateral balance is usually the culprit. However, the previous vet said hocks. I like what you said about human input and actually having a look.

[JumperMan]

Hi Equinelibrium,

I just sent you a PM

[SporthorseFun]

Equinelibrium,

I think the idea of taking the human bias out of lameness evaluations is a great idea. We probably do try to see what we think we are going to see with evaluating gaits and lameness on a horse. However, it is just so odd to me that sometimes the simple things are put aside, like correcting hoof capsule issues. They say that even things that show up diagnostically sometimes are not clinically significant, and it really is easy to go down a rabbit hole.

I need to read your paper because there is probably a wealth of information I am not even aware of, and I know that experienced vets are aware of the limitations, and really try to factor in their own experiences at the time of examinations.