That is because there is a tremendous amount of misinformation strewed about.
Regardless of WHY these foals end up there, a 4 DAY OLD foal taken from their mom for the benefit of another just isnāt right. One life is more important than another here, and thatās glaringly obvious.
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[QUOTE=DJohn;8077983]
Regardless of WHY these foals end up there, a 4 DAY OLD foal taken from their mom for the benefit of another just isnāt right. One life is more important than another here, and thatās glaringly obvious.[/QUOTE]
well, considering the amount of misinformation, the foal could be orphaned, tooā¦the narrative just fits better.
My question isāwhy is Last Chance taking these four day old (sometimes critically ill) foals? Why are they not reporting these facilities that they are getting these foals from and shutting them downāor at least getting someone out to inspect these places?
At the very least I would be lobbying my local politicians for some kind of teeth to the animal care laws to hold these nursemare farms accountable!
But as long as Last Chance just complains to the public (but does knothing to correct the situation) and continues to spew half truths condemning all nursemare facilities, Iām not interested.
There are some well run nursemare farms! The one I visited with a horse friend had registered stock. Some draft mares, QHs, STBs, etc. and there was a TB stallion on the premises. The foals could be registered as QH or appendix, crossbred (half draft), STB, etc. but the cost would have to be borne by the buyer. The foals were, I believe, $200. each. They all lived together in a group and were fed milk replacer in buckets until they went to their new homes.
I also saw some older horses from this nursmare farm in my travels to different farms and they were well conformed, smart horses. The grown foal I have seen that came from Last Chance is a good looking specimen too (looks like a Paint to me)!
Those of you who are going on about all these āgradeā horses being producedāif the foal is from registered stock and the buyer is able to register it but doesnāt, how is that the fault of the nursemare farm? Not all āgradeā horses are from unregistered, poorly conformed stock.
How many of you folks denigrating the nursemare industry have ever visited a nursemare facility? I used to think the trade was barbaric until I visited that farm with my friendāit gave me a whole different outlook on the situation. 
Renting nursemares is just not about milk and money!!!
[QUOTE=DJohn;8077983]
Regardless of WHY these foals end up there, a 4 DAY OLD foal taken from their mom for the benefit of another just isnāt right. One life is more important than another here, and thatās glaringly obvious.[/QUOTE]
One foal is worth zip with a line through it. The other might be worth a couple hundred thousand. This is only about ālivesā as they relate to money. If this LCC wasnāt offering another alternative for those nurse-mare foals, theyād be knocked on the head and in a dead-pile in the woods.
Not at ALL places, but many.
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Well, even well run farms with ideal care end up with critically ill foals. Foals can be very fragile. Also, there are many āregularā horse people that donāt spend thousands of dollars on vet bills or sending sick foals to the hospital. A critically ill foal is not an accurate indicator of poor care or neglect.
I donāt think that the decision to use a nurse mare is solely based on the monetary value of the foal in question. Iāve seen people lease nurse mares for lower end thoroughbred foals and for warmblood foals that are unlikely to sell for enough to recoup all the extra costs. Realistically, an orphan foal on a regular farm without caretakers experienced in caring for orphans and without a proper companion for the orphan foal is not likely to do well, and most people recognize that. Whereas a bucket baby being raised with other bucket babies at a nurse mare farm has a decent chance of doing well. Using a nurse mare to mother the orphan and raising the nurse mareās baby as a bucket baby could be the best chance for both babies to do well.
And another thing to think of is that often it is the case that the orphan foal did not get any colostrum, the nurse mare foal did. So the nursemare foal is the better candidate to switch to a bucket.
My point is not that the foal may be seriously illāmy question is, what is the nursemare farm doing shipping it that way??? And why is the LCC accepting itāthen complaining about it??? Theyāre setting themselves up for failure and failing to admit their part in this situation actually speaks volumesā¦
Iāve had a few instances where farms I worked for have used nurse mares. Theyāve all been fairly nice mares (registered, decent confo, great personalities) and were all sent back to the nurse mare farms bred to nice stallions. I also raised my own bucket baby from a local nurse mare farm (farm has since shut down due to the ownerās death)- he was a very well bred AA that I sold a while back.
A friend of mine adopted one of these foals. He was a godsend for her orphan filly. But after a few years, she had a change of opinion of LCC and their practices. I canāt remember the exact circumstances, but as grateful as she was for her foal, she refused to support them and stopped praising their work. IIRC, it had to do with their responses to fundraisingā¦
Unfortunately, my friend had to put down that gelding at age 7 due to a auto-immune disease that even the best vets in KY could not cure. He was a lucky one and she felt lucky to have had him too.
[QUOTE=Cherry;8078330]
My question isāwhy is Last Chance taking these four day old (sometimes critically ill) foals? Why are they not reporting these facilities that they are getting these foals from and shutting them downāor at least getting someone out to inspect these places?
At the very least I would be lobbying my local politicians for some kind of teeth to the animal care laws to hold these nursemare farms accountable!
But as long as Last Chance just complains to the public (but does knothing to correct the situation) and continues to spew half truths condemning all nursemare facilities, Iām not interested.
There are some well run nursemare farms! The one I visited with a horse friend had registered stock. Some draft mares, QHs, STBs, etc. and there was a TB stallion on the premises. The foals could be registered as QH or appendix, crossbred (half draft), STB, etc. but the cost would have to be borne by the buyer. The foals were, I believe, $200. each. They all lived together in a group and were fed milk replacer in buckets until they went to their new homes.
I also saw some older horses from this nursmare farm in my travels to different farms and they were well conformed, smart horses. The grown foal I have seen that came from Last Chance is a good looking specimen too (looks like a Paint to me)!
Those of you who are going on about all these āgradeā horses being producedāif the foal is from registered stock and the buyer is able to register it but doesnāt, how is that the fault of the nursemare farm? Not all āgradeā horses are from unregistered, poorly conformed stock.
How many of you folks denigrating the nursemare industry have ever visited a nursemare facility? I used to think the trade was barbaric until I visited that farm with my friendāit gave me a whole different outlook on the situation.
Renting nursemares is just not about milk and money!!![/QUOTE]
Amen ^^^ worth a repeat/post
I would venture to guess that the options for the critically ill foals are either euthanasia at the nurse mare farm or being shipped to LCC. I donāt see anything wrong with them going to LCC to have a chance at survival if LCC is willing to give them that. If I understand correctly, it sounds like LCC wants to give all of these foals a chance and doesnāt want to turn away sick foals.
Iād also like to point out that sometimes a critically ill foal isnāt obvious. Iāve seen foals that looked essentially normal be extremely ill two hours later. Things happen fast with foals. A foal that has a puffy joint might just have gotten it knocked up or they might be septic. Itās also possible that the stress and fatigue of travel make illnesses more obvious on arrival.
If there are farms that need to be outed, I think that it would undermine LCCās mission to take on that task. If LCC starts reporting farms that bring them babies, other farms are going to stop bringing them babies. Decent nurse mare farms will worry that they will be reported to animal control if one of the foals they bring turns out to be ill or in poor shape. Even if LCC did report farmsāitās hard to hide a nurse mare facility full of poorly cared for horses so itās likely local people are already aware of and dealing with the problem.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8079859]
I would venture to guess that the options for the critically ill foals are either euthanasia at the nurse mare farm or being shipped to LCC. I donāt see anything wrong with them going to LCC to have a chance at survival if LCC is willing to give them that. If I understand correctly, it sounds like LCC wants to give all of these foals a chance and doesnāt want to turn away sick foals.
Iād also like to point out that sometimes a critically ill foal isnāt obvious. Iāve seen foals that looked essentially normal be extremely ill two hours later. Things happen fast with foals. A foal that has a puffy joint might just have gotten it knocked up or they might be septic. Itās also possible that the stress and fatigue of travel make illnesses more obvious on arrival.
If there are farms that need to be outed, I think that it would undermine LCCās mission to take on that task. If LCC starts reporting farms that bring them babies, other farms are going to stop bringing them babies. Decent nurse mare farms will worry that they will be reported to animal control if one of the foals they bring turns out to be ill or in poor shape. Even if LCC did report farmsāitās hard to hide a nurse mare facility full of poorly cared for horses so itās likely local people are already aware of and dealing with the problem.[/QUOTE]
you donāt out the bad eggs, you are supporting them.
You take in (buy) puppies from a puppy mill, you support them and donāt give them cause to clean up their act.
There is a difference between wrong doing out of ignorance, and out of laziness or greed. You stay silent around the lazy, you are only feeding them!
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8076665]
ā¦ Also, foals require some kind of equine companionship and most TB farms do not have quiet old ponies or another orphan the same age. This is a big sticking point for many farmsāeven if you had the staff you cannot successfully raise a single bucket baby without a suitable companion. Either way, using nurse mares is the industry standard.
.[/QUOTE]
I donāt understand why other Thoroughbred mares who recently foaled, could not accept and socialize, and maybe even nurse, a second orphaned foal. If she and her baby were turned out with other mom/foal pairs on the rolling grass of the idyllic Kentucky breeding farm, wouldnāt the foals usually play and sleep together? and the donāt the mares help socialize the annoying foals, even if they are not their own? If so, why couldnāt one more bucket baby be added to the pretty scene?
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[QUOTE=Alagirl;8079964]
you donāt out the bad eggs, you are supporting them.
You take in (buy) puppies from a puppy mill, you support them and donāt give them cause to clean up their act.
There is a difference between wrong doing out of ignorance, and out of laziness or greed. You stay silent around the lazy, you are only feeding them![/QUOTE]
Except that in this scenario, the people supporting a bad nurse mare farm are the farm owners that rent mares from themāNOT the people buying the foals for $50-200. The nurse mare foals are a byproduct of the industry, taking them in for a nominal amount and giving them a good life doesnāt support the nurse mare industry.
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[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8080092]
I donāt understand why other Thoroughbred mares who recently foaled, could not accept and socialize, and maybe even nurse, a second orphaned foal. If she and her baby were turned out with other mom/foal pairs on the rolling grass of the idyllic Kentucky breeding farm, wouldnāt the foals usually play and sleep together? and the donāt the mares help socialize the annoying foals, even if they are not their own? If so, why couldnāt one more bucket baby be added to the pretty scene?[/QUOTE]
Many broodmares can be hostile to foals that arenāt their ownāespecially if that foal doesnāt have a mother to protect it, and even more so if that foal is pestering them. Foals in a herd may accidentally sometimes nurse off the wrong mare, and mares may occasionally allow it if their mind is elsewhere, but it would be quite a rarity for a mare to adopt a second foal and allow it to nurse enough to survive. I would never in my right mind turn out an orphaned foal with a group of broodmares and foals. That foal would be looking for a friend and someone to suck on and stick to, and would likely spend its day repetitively being chased off (if not worse) by annoyed mares.
when I went and drove through those idyllic KY farms, I never saw A horse in those beautiful ālawnsā not one whether a mare, a foal or a gelding/stallionā¦ I hope they do sometimes go on grassā¦
At least, these little foals are given a chance, not sold at auctionsā¦ remember the Yard Sale Foal
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?104279-Rescue-foal-from-a-yard-sale
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8080166]
mares may occasionally allow it if their mind is elsewhere, but it would be quite a rarity for a mare to adopt a second foal and allow it to nurse enough to survive. I would never in my right mind turn out an orphaned foal with a group of broodmares and foals. That foal would be looking for a friend and someone to suck on and stick to, and would likely spend its day repetitively being chased off (if not worse) by annoyed mares.[/QUOTE]
I didnāt mean to suggest you would just dump the orphaned foal with a herd, without a proper introduction.
But if you can train a nurse mare to accept and nurse a TB foal who is not hers, then why couldnāt you socialize a TB mare to accept/socialize with a bucket baby who is not hers? Iām not even asking about nursing the orphan, because presumably the farm that bred her would be caring for her, like the LCC cares for the nurse mareās foal.
I am responding to those who said that the socialization couldnāt be done without a ānurse mareā.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8080166]
mares may occasionally allow it if their mind is elsewhere, but it would be quite a rarity for a mare to adopt a second foal and allow it to nurse enough to survive. I would never in my right mind turn out an orphaned foal with a group of broodmares and foals. That foal would be looking for a friend and someone to suck on and stick to, and would likely spend its day repetitively being chased off (if not worse) by annoyed mares.[/QUOTE]
I didnāt mean to suggest you would just dump the orphaned foal with a herd, without a proper introduction.
But if you can train a nurse mare to accept and nurse a TB foal who is not hers, then why couldnāt you socialize a TB mare to accept/socialize with a bucket baby who is not hers? Iām not even asking about nursing the orphan, because presumably the farm that bred her would be caring for her, like the LCC cares for the nurse mareās foal.
I am responding to those who said that the socialization couldnāt be done without a ānurse mareā.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8079964]
you donāt out the bad eggs, you are supporting them.
You take in (buy) puppies from a puppy mill, you support them and donāt give them cause to clean up their act.
There is a difference between wrong doing out of ignorance, and out of laziness or greed. You stay silent around the lazy, you are only feeding them![/QUOTE]
I agree Ala [buy a lottery ticket!]
I chalk the LCC conundrum up there with broker rescues and the likeā¦ your money and sales perpetuate the very industry you suggest you abhorā¦ so which is it? Are you working with them or against them? And if the latter, then tattle on the bad ones already!
I am personally, as we all know, pro-rescue.
What I am not enamored with is rescues who complain non stop about the very endeavor they undertook.
An occasional grouse is one thingā¦ but if you set up a sanctuary your choice] on limited acreage [because who can afford unlimited?], please do not whine that you canāt take in more when you are full. It is what it is, you should be astute enough to have foreseen the finite-ness of the situation before you reached max capacity, such that this should not come as a surprise.
If you set up your rescue in the northeast, you should know beforehand that we have these things called winters here in the northeast, and sometimes they suck. Bigtime.
So yes, there will be snow and iceā¦ and again the occasional grouse about it is one thingā¦ perpetual whining, another.
