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Last Chance Corral

Off Course
#61

[QUOTE=FalseImpression;8080172]
when I went and drove through those idyllic KY farms, I never saw A horse in those beautiful “lawns” not one whether a mare, a foal or a gelding/stallion… I hope they do sometimes go on grass…

At least, these little foals are given a chance, not sold at auctions… remember the Yard Sale Foal
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?104279-Rescue-foal-from-a-yard-sale[/QUOTE]

They are out on pasture quite a bit. But they are brought in at night. All of those long narrow fences areas are lanes for bringing horses in from pastures. It is a very smart system for moving horses in and out.

#62

You really can’t put two foals on a mare. There’s no guarantee that the mare will have enough milk to support two foals.

As far as the “unused” fields in KY, farms around here don’t utilize all their fields at the same time. They rotate turnouts and barns plus a bunch of them will not turn out near the road. Some of the farms will hay those empty fields either to feed or use for bedding. It’s called smart management not lack of turning out.

#63

[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8080092]
I don’t understand why other Thoroughbred mares who recently foaled, could not accept and socialize, and maybe even nurse, a second orphaned foal. If she and her baby were turned out with other mom/foal pairs on the rolling grass of the idyllic Kentucky breeding farm, wouldn’t the foals usually play and sleep together? and the don’t the mares help socialize the annoying foals, even if they are not their own? If so, why couldn’t one more bucket baby be added to the pretty scene?[/QUOTE]

they are not puppies!
There might be TB mares that produce a decent amount of milk, but generally not enough for two, and some mares do double barrel other foals. The kid has to have a mum to look over it.

#64

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8080155]
Except that in this scenario, the people supporting a bad nurse mare farm are the farm owners that rent mares from them–NOT the people buying the foals for $50-200. The nurse mare foals are a byproduct of the industry, taking them in for a nominal amount and giving them a good life doesn’t support the nurse mare industry.[/QUOTE]

A breeding farm may need one nurse mare every so often, and pray in the meantime they don’t need it again.

I get it. It’s the breeders who can’t do no right, obviously! (that narrative has become so old and boring, I can’t begin to tell you how tiring that is!)

No, seriously, it’s the people who pat themselves on the back for getting the poor little bottle babies.
it s exactly like the puppy millers: Produce pups and care for them, don’t fist them off on others, via ‘rescue’ or dumping them on AC.

Same here: It’s pure profit when the bleeding hearts stand in line to grab the foals from you, MONEY IN HAND. You save the bother and $$$ to feed them, or even knock them in the head and feed the buzzards.

People who breed horses worth the expenditure to get a nurse mare are not the cold hearted ogres shrugging off the throw away foal.

But it sounds so much better when you have the one common enemy: The EVIL TB breeders!

#65

On the positive side, they do very hard work that most aren’t willing to do. On the negative side: 1) they purchase all of the foals, and 2) the drama/propaganda.

#66

[QUOTE=Alagirl;8080287]
they are not puppies!
There might be TB mares that produce a decent amount of milk, but generally not enough for two, and some mares do double barrel other foals. The kid has to have a mum to look over it.[/QUOTE]

If this is true it doesn’t explain why the orphan could not be fed by the breeding barn, but introduced gently to other foals and dams for socialization. If some mares do double barrel other foals, then they would do so on their neighbors broodmares foal, not just on an orphan. In which case, this is not a new or additional risk to offset the benefits of herd socialization.

1 Like
#67

[QUOTE=joiedevie99;8080309]
On the positive side, they do very hard work that most aren’t willing to do. On the negative side: 1) they purchase all of the foals, and 2) the drama/propaganda.[/QUOTE]

There are others who work really hard and don’t crow about it…

#68

[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8080312]
If this is true it doesn’t explain why the orphan could not be fed by the breeding barn, but introduced gently to other foals and dams for socialization. If some mares do double barrel other foals, then they would do so on their neighbors broodmares foal, not just on an orphan. In which case, this is not a new or additional risk to offset the benefits of herd socialization.[/QUOTE]

Some places do do this. There is not one “formula” that everyone follows. Nursemares fit in well to the TB breeding operations because they are not quite as “hands on” as people think. Mostly they are left to be horses. Mares and foals are turned out as groups. etc etc. Adding in a bottle baby really changes that dynamic and increases the amount of manpower.

#69

[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8080312]
If this is true it doesn’t explain why the orphan could not be fed by the breeding barn, but introduced gently to other foals and dams for socialization. If some mares do double barrel other foals, then they would do so on their neighbors broodmares foal, not just on an orphan. In which case, this is not a new or additional risk to offset the benefits of herd socialization.[/QUOTE]

Most mares are not accepting of strange foals. When a foal is young, it generally does not venture far from it’s dam. On breeding farms, young foals usually go out with their dam in private turnout for the first few weeks before being introduced into larger groups. This helps prevent a young foal from being run down by a mare before the dam can intervene on it’s behalf. At one farm I interned at, they had a foal born very small and kept it on private turnout for 3 months. They were still deciding if it was big enough to fend for itself when breeding season was over, along with my internship.

Mares are also not designed to care for two foals, so if you try to introduce another foal, you are likely to not have enough milk.

Nursemares come in because of their ability to readily produce milk as well as their temperment. Nursemares are specifically selected for their willingness to accept foals not their own. Not every mare can be a nursemare - only probably about 10% of the mare population, if that, has the temperment to be a nursemare.

A breeding farm raising a bucket baby would be very difficult as you would need more helpers and definitely more helpers with more horse knowledge. In college, the farm I interned at had myself and one other person on my shift, and a person or two on each shift to watch out for mares foaling/just foaled/issues. We worked alongside some barn workers who’s main job was to clean stalls. They knew how to lead a horse and foal and clean stalls, that was pretty much it. One guy was good enough to help an experience mare foal out.

For any problem, we were calling one of the two managers of the farm of over 300 head of horses (mares, foals, yearlings, stallions). Very difficult to properly manage a bucket baby in that scenario.

#70

[QUOTE=Daisyesq;8080191]
I didn’t mean to suggest you would just dump the orphaned foal with a herd, without a proper introduction.

But if you can train a nurse mare to accept and nurse a TB foal who is not hers, then why couldn’t you socialize a TB mare to accept/socialize with a bucket baby who is not hers? I’m not even asking about nursing the orphan, because presumably the farm that bred her would be caring for her, like the LCC cares for the nurse mare’s foal.

I am responding to those who said that the socialization couldn’t be done without a “nurse mare”.[/QUOTE]

Nurse mares are not ordinary mares. Most mares will not accept another foal even after their own is taken away, in fact they might even be agitated and more aggressive towards a strange foal. Nurse mares are of very quiet, docile temperament–definitely not thoroughbreds. Even with these special mares, a lot of work may need to go into the new mare/foal introduction–careful handling, masking scents, and close supervision. It is NOT easy.

There might be a special thoroughbred mare out there that would be nurturing to a foal that wasn’t her own but nursing is a part of that nurturing. Most mares get angry if a foal that isn’t their own tries to nurse. You can’t do one without the other. I think it would be very difficult to train a mare to accept a second foal unless it was a very special mare and the owner also agreed. The babies in that case WOULD be sharing milk (because you can’t train them not to nurse), so both babies would have to be taught to drink from a bucket as well. It would be a huge hassle and round the clock supervision might be required.

Socialization CAN be done without a nurse mare. Old ponies are miracle workers with these babies. When I have used old ponies to raise orphans/ bucket babies, they MUST be tolerant of the foal sucking on their udder or if it is a gelding their sheath, to the point that they just react by walking away or moving slightly instead of kicking or biting. Orphan foals, or even weanlings are going to try to nurse. This tolerance isn’t something that can be “trained.” Either a horse/pony is tolerant or it isn’t. Interestingly, my best companions for sick/injured/orphaned foals have been elderly pony mares that have never had foals of their own.

#71

I’ve been lucky to have both ^^ a tolerant old pony gelding that happily baby sat weanlings and a TB mare that LOVES all foals and I know in a pinch she’d be my chemically induced go to nurse mare at the very least she’d tolerate another foal /bucket baby palling around with her and or her own foal.

Those situations are unique and extremely infrequent. Big TB operations are not going to pension old ponies that may or may not be needed to baby sit an orphan nor are they going to risk one of their open (many/most are not even owned by them ) mares old or young …nor the foal. They have a relationship I"m sure with a nurse mare provider probably even re use the same nures mares if when / needed because anything new has a potential for failure/danger.

It is beyond absurd that the rescues discussed would attack or besmirch the farms needing nurse mares instead of the nurse mare provider if the care and re homing of the nurse foal is nefarious or lacking. The recipient of the nurse mare generally isn’t involved with the nurse foal and is certainly not guilty if the provider fails to care for them or re-home them properly. Fault if any lies solely with the nurse mare provider for actions against the nurse foal.

#72

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;8080662]

It is beyond absurd that the rescues discussed would attack or besmirch the farms needing nurse mares instead of the nurse mare provider if the care and re homing of the nurse foal is nefarious or lacking. The recipient of the nurse mare generally isn’t involved with the nurse foal and is certainly not guilty if the provider fails to care for them or re-home them properly. Fault if any lies solely with the nurse mare provider for actions against the nurse foal.[/QUOTE]

This

#73

Someone help me out here. Please. I’ve been following LCC for several months. Am I to understand that they breed nurse mares and these babies are not orphans, but horses DELIBERATELY bred so that a nurse mare is “made”? Please tell me I’ve got this all wrong.
ETA OK, I’m good now. Long day with no caffeine.

#74

OK, lots of incorrect information here. I have worked for Last Chance Corral. There is a lot of good done here and these people know how to keep babies thriving that are in this predicament. She buys them, they are not free. She does ask for a donation when adopting and a very thorough screening is required to take them. I live in KY now, and am in the TB industry. Some mares reject their babies, some mares are pulled from their babies due to health reasons. I’m NOT defending the racing or thoroughbred breeding industry. It’s a dirty business. The money to get a nurse mare is no object to these farms.
While you don’t know what you’re going to get breed wise, I have known many fine hunters and riding horses come from these nurse mare babies. These babies are imprinted to humans. They are not confused, or don’t know they are horses. I.E. You can’t adopt one. Must go in pairs. They come in wilder than march hares and are handled all the time. Victoria does a great job of intaking and getting these babies in forever homes.
LCC is a 5013C company. Her finances are public record(one of the requirements of a 5013C. ) She relies on donations and grants to keep going. It takes a lot of money to get these babies, raise them and find homes for them. She also rescues other horses. If she didn’t get them, then there would be a lot more die, which is a shame. Owning a horse is a responsibility. I have seen very few come in that would be unsuitable for riding or harness work.

2 Likes
#75

Do you realize this whole discussion is almost 5 years old?

#76

Who cares? It’s still pertinent information.

#77

I think the point is that this is one of those cases where a brand new poster bumps up an old thread that says not always positive things with their post of rave reviews. If the brand new poster had simply started a new thread saying how great LCC was the posters who never read the original thread would not be now reading it, they would just be reading the new poster’s great review.

#78

A review is a review :confused: . This gal says she worked there and put her experiences out there. It is a free country after all…

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