Unfortunately for Roffman, if this is true, the lawyers can follow the money trail. If the Belgian man never paid for the horse, well, oops.
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Yes! That is what I was thinking of. Thank you
Does anyone know if the horse is really worth $900,000?
Why would an owner who’s horse is valued at between $250,000 and $400,000 (by the agent engaged to sell the animal) take the first offer of $300,000 that comes in within 20 days of the horse hitting the market?
If this was a house for sale, instead of a horse, there would at least have been a counter offer.
Wouldn’t there have been an insurance appraisal or some valuation of the horse that let the seller know it’s true value?
Wouldn’t a PPE have been done if the canter and tempi changes were sub par?
Does anyone know what has become of the horse?
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It won’t be speculation when they do discovery for the bank statements and see what money did or not go where.
Wire transfers leave a trail.
And if Peter flipped the horse the 600k difference between what he ‘paid’ and what he ‘resold’ it for will be in his account, not CR’s.
Like, does either the plaintiff think she can fabricate an 890,000 wire transfer put of thin air or does CR think no one is going to do a discovery demand for her statements or that the wires won’t show up on them, or who is confused about how life works here?
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Lol I GUARANTEE a $2500 minimum ppe was done on this horse but those determine whether the horse is sound not whether its tempi changes can earn 8s and 9s.
Ots and CR used to be partners. Can you think of any reason why they would tell the buyer, represented by Ots, that a $450k horse was worth $900k and she should pull the trigger, and why they would tell the seller the tempis were problematic and she should take $300 while it was on the table?
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This is my question. Also wondering about the $900k price tag for a 6 year old who only has a show record as a 4 y/o.
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Welllll if your plan is to secretly keep the difference, if you advise the buyer to pay $450k more on the one side and the seller to take $150 less on the other side, you get to keep $600k more money.
Soooooo you tell the buyer Jesus Christ must have laid hands on it and no price is too high, and then call the seller and say they are only offering x but you think it may have developed terminal cancer and take the deal.
(As for “the seller should have known it was worth more or the buyer should have known it was worth less”, keep in mind that Valegro was purchased for 4500 GBP and Carl and Charlotte generally stay at or under 15k for youngsters, so a great many buyers have paid quiiiiite a lot more for a looooot less horse…)
Like are people honestly confused about the mechanics and motivations, or are people just having trouble believing horse people could be this sheisty?
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I was more interested in the person who thought it a great idea to pay $900k for this horse, I understand greed.
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I’m scratching my head over the part where Hoffman tells the original owner the horse is worth $250 to $400, then horse arrives in Wellington and lo! issues with the changes. Trainer says $300 K is more feasible and owner responds by wanting $500K–more than the original figure–right about when the first board and training bill would have arrived. Why would the owner have agreed to send the horse to be agented by someone who valued the horse BELOW what they thought? Wouldn’t that be something to settle before you ship and market the horse?
The whole thing is just weird.
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Right, but if it was my horse and PPE came up clean no way I would settle for a low ball offer. I’d pay for the PPE myself to get to the truth.
It sounds like some people buying and selling their horses have abdicated their responsibility to do their own due diligence as to the true value of the horse.
I will ask again if anyone knows what has happened to the horse… because that horse is evidence linked to a possible crime
I’m just having trouble believing a person who has previous experience selling horses does not know the fair market value of the horse they are currently trying to sell, or how and why they should have that info.
I’m also having difficulty believing anyone who has amassed enough money to have a million dollars to spend on a horse would not have the intelligence to get that horse appraised
PS… I have a bridge to sell all these people.
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This type of thing has been happening for a very long time in the horse business. And probably in any other business that uses agents.
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I’m sure they will create a syndicate to buy that bridge, but they will have to arrange wiring funds from an account in Belgium, if you can wait a bit. But if you get another buyer in the meantime, go for it!
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Between you and me I was told by my agent that it has a minor structural flaw so I am prepared to accept a lower cash offer.
Any interested buyer can just give the cash to my agent, I am busy counting my chickens and will trust my agent and the buyer to be honest.
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I’m not sure inheriting counts as amassing.
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I find it strange as well. BP is a professional, but I guess she could have been swindled by CR/Ots. I do find it strange she’s not suing. Has she made any public statements?
I can’t seem to find anything on Fabrege MF, other than scores for young horse FEI tests. Would love to see a video, as I’m sure most here would as well.
It looks like Alice Tarjan is a very talented amateur from the articles I’ve read and videos I’ve watched, but maybe she was unsure of what Fabrege would be worth at the international level. I could see her being swindled as well.
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The horse did not lose value because of the PPE. There is no black book on high dollar dressage horses. The value of a horse that might have international potential is highly subjective. I mean who would she get to do a realistic appraisal - Carl Hester??? Your average appraiser is not going to know what the horse is worth or what somebody will pay for it. There are a lot of subtle things that most people cannot see that could prevent the horse from being a star at the Grand Prix level. I do not know that much about Alice Tarjan but she has developed some very nice horses and obviously has a good eye and she had already sold two high priced horses so she may have had a good idea of the general range of where the horse might sell.
So AT may have had an idea but needed a more objective set of eyes on the horse. So maybe the horse goes to Wellington, CR trains/ rides the horse and decides the horse’s canter is a bit flat and she will have problems with the ones or two tempi changes so she adjusts the price downward. Or tells AT that. CR is selling high dollar horses so she has an idea of what they are selling for. Or maybe she knew that the ultimate buyer has a large pocketbook and may not be that savvy about horse sales and decides to structure this deal to get the maximum profit. I dunno.
I guess the horse has not been heard from again because it wasn’t really an international quality horse… or maybe the buyer does not ride it as well as AT did… or maybe it had some soundness or training problems. You really don’t know if a horse can get to that level and be competitive until you get there.
There are some big red flags on this horse sale. It sounds like both parties will assemble high priced attorneys and do a stare down to see if the other side blinks. We are not privy to all the information here and it sounds like several of the parties involved have talked to AT. And I don’t see that AT has a claim against Endel Otts - he was not acting as her agent, CR was. However the buyer would. Maybe she is seeing how this plays out before she goes to court herself. Luckily I am too poor to get swindled in this manner.
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I mean, I can totally see sending a young horse to Fla to get done, and then having the trainer call and being like “You know, the tempis are turning out to be not as easy as we hoped, so what about $300 for a quickie deal?” and not being like “CALL THE VET FOR A PPE.”
Like that sounds like a reasonable hiccup in the development story of a six year old, not “What are you talking about it scored 9s on them three years in a row at Dressage at Devon??!”
At this point, if Carl is buying the future world record holder for 4500 GBP, why aren’t ALL the buyers telling their trainers to beat the bishes and find a good 2yo for $20k or less? Why aren’t ALL the buyers saying whytf would I spend $900k on a 6yo w no record when Valegro is trotting around the Olympics having been purchased for less than my saddle cost?? If Carl Hester can get three world records for 4500 GBP, NO ONE* needs to spend $900k on an unproven horse.
These buyers are not interested on getting the best deal. They are not interested in the let’s beat the bushes and look at how good the gaits are while it trots in the breeder’s paddock buying experience. Do you think if someone called this buyer and said “This horse in this random paddock is like 4500 but I think it’s really got something you should get it,” that this buyer would have been like “Hmm actually lets go with the $4500 horse instead.”??? Where is the fun in that???
That is not the experience these buyers are paying for. They want to buy the horse from the right name, tour elite and beautifully appointed farms in their quest, have everything be luxurious and elite to the hilt, and most importantly get their dick out for all their friends amd frenemies to see. A lot more goes into it than the actual value of the horse. I bet if the exact same horse were shipped to a backyard shedrow barn in Loxahatchee and priced at $20,000 this exact same buyer who loved it for $900k ten minutes ago wouldn’t even recognoze it, much less look at it twice.
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NOT UNCOMMON for the buyer.
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Very true Meup - I think you nailed it. That is not the world I live in but I recognize that scenario.
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