Agreed. Especially considering many owners will probably not be willing to lease OP their horse after they find out about the first three. 
Perhaps they meant congenital defect and not birth defect, like arthritis?
What happens if that doesn’t happen? I’m thinking, for instance, of my horse who after 2.5 years of extensive/expensive rehab from an injury he acquired in turnout had to be retired at age 9. Or there are instances where the horse is rehabbed and can continue to work but may need to be retired from jumping, or restricted to lower heights. Sometimes a horse cannot be returned in the same, sound condition.
A friend had a year lease on a horse that got injured. She was responsible for diagnosis and treatments (which were decided on in consultation with the owner) and the rehab until the term of the lease was up. At that point the horse went back to the owner.
You can put anything both parties will sign in a lease agreement, as others have noted.
I agree that you can certainly put just about anything in an agreement, but I’ve heard a few people reference lease agreements that contemplate the horse being returned in the same condition. Which simply isn’t always possible - so I’m interested in what other terms the agreement might then contain to deal with the “or else”.
The scenario you describe was more in keeping of what my expectation would be for a lease - to maintain whatever care is necessary until the end of the term of the lease, but not beyond.
Loss of use insurance might be a possible solution, though it certainly has some pros/cons.
I don’t know if “birth defect” is the correct term but I have seen 32horses that were completely fine for years go lame from something that they were born with. The first one was born with an abnormal coffin bone that overtime caused it to go lame. The horse was always a little off but it went severely lame and after extensive and expensive vetting the owner found out it was due to an abnormal coffin bone and that the horse was in a ton of pain from it (there could be more to this story but this is what my trainer had briefly told me). The second one had PSSM that the owner and the previous owner didn’t know about until a year after the current owner purchased him and moved him to a field with more grass in the spring which made the horse was extremely tied up and has not been the same since.
I don’t blame it on the horse breed at all I just think I have bad luck with thoroughbreds but I’m also superstitious. They weren’t all related to pasture injuries though. Horse 1 was injured at the racetrack hence why he retired from racing but 1.5-2 years later his old injury flared up again even tough he was doing 4 days of being ridden a week. Horse 2 was actually injured at a horse show and broke his leg with another rider so he had to be put down :(. Horse 3 injured himself playing in the field and he has been in the same pasture for YEARS.
You are totally right all horses have the same chance of getting injured doing just about anything. I don’t blame the breed but OTTBs tend to come with track jewelry that can cause soundness issues later on. I’m also superstitious and have not had good luck with leasing even though I love thoroughbreds and believe they have the most heart of any horse.
Those 3 horses injuries were not related to me (multiple vets confirmed) I posted earlier on how all 3 were injured
What I am really looking for is expectations of a lease for a show horse and the price for a lease of a 1.0m packer in the midwest area. Also, what happens when a horse is not returned in the same condition? Does anyone know what happens after that? I’m trying to prepare myself and be knowledgeable about what I’m getting into before leasing which I believe is better than going in blindly not understanding what you’re signing up for once that contract is signed.
I once looked at leasing a pony for my daughter. The lessor stipulated that if the horse was injured during the lease term, I’d have to buy it outright. Hard pass for me.
Anyways, OP, as I mentioned, a WB that is a “1.0m packer” would absolutely command a purchase price of $30K-40K. A one year lease is generally 1/3 - 1/2 of the horse’s purchase price, so you can do that math.
In my experience, it is typical for the lessee to cover mortality and major medical insurance. So, in the unfortunate instance that the horse dies, insurance pays out – and the owner gets the money. You, the lessee, doesn’t keep any of that money. If the horse is injured, you (lessee) pay the deductible and insurance pays for some % of all charges above that. My major medical policy pays for 80% of treatment for an injury/condition once I’ve met the deductible. You can expect this type of insurance on a $40K horse to cost you around $150/month.
You will also be expected to cover all farrier, dental, and routine vet bills during the term.
Basically, the owner is absolved of ALL costs for the lease term.
Horses get hurt. We all know that. Most leases I’ve been involved in do not state that the horse must be returned in “same” condition. That’s just not always possible. I probably wouldn’t sign a lease like that. In my opinion, you should be willing to care for the horse – injured or no – for the full term of the lease. If the horse is injured, you must follow the vet’s orders and pay for (or submit an insurance claim for) all required therapies. If you don’t want that much exposure, look for a half lease.
I’ve been on the lessor and lessee side many times. Please feel free to pm me questions!
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I once looked at leasing a pony for my daughter. The lessor stipulated that if the horse was injured during the lease term, I’d have to buy it outright. Hard pass for me.
Anyways, OP, as I mentioned, a WB that is a “1.0m packer” would absolutely command a purchase price of $30K-40K. A one year lease is generally 1/3 - 1/2 of the horse’s purchase price, so you can do that math.
In my experience, it is typical for the lessee to cover mortality and major medical insurance. So, in the unfortunate instance that the horse dies, insurance pays out – and the owner gets the money. You, the lessee, doesn’t keep any of that money. If the horse is injured, you (lessee) pay the deductible and insurance pays for some % of all charges above that. My major medical policy pays for 80% of treatment for an injury/condition once I’ve met the deductible. You can expect this type of insurance on a $40K horse to cost you around $150/month.
You will also be expected to cover all farrier, dental, and routine vet bills during the term.
Basically, the owner is absolved of ALL costs for the lease term.
Horses get hurt. We all know that. Most leases I’ve been involved in do not state that the horse must be returned in “same” condition. That’s just not always possible. I probably wouldn’t sign a lease like that. In my opinion, you should be willing to care for the horse – injured or no – for the full term of the lease. If the horse is injured, you must follow the vet’s orders and pay for (or submit an insurance claim for) all required therapies. If you don’t want that much exposure, look for a half lease.
I’ve been on the lessor and lessee side many times. Please feel free to pm me questions!
Dang it, why do my responses always get flagged as spam?!
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I have a lease like this right now, asking $10k for the year for a Warmblood. But she is not an ideal size.
If it’s a full lease, the leaser is responsible for ALL costs. While I have full vet work ups done on my end so I can represent the horses to my best and most honest ability… I welcome pre-lease exams from a vet to try to unfold any potential hidden issues (on the leaser’s expense).
through my contract, I require insurance on the horse. This should help any major bills.
Do you mean the person who is leasing the horse vs owning it is responsible for the vet bills? That is a lessee, not a lessor or “leaser.” I wonder how well people understand this terminology when entering into their lease contracts. Hopefully the contracts are being drawn up professionially with lawyers, and not home-made. A mix up in terms and understanding could leave someone with a big ole surprise of a vet bill. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the terminology.
Once upon a time, I looked at a potential lease pony for my kid. The lessor stipulated that if the horse was injured during the lease term, I’d have to buy it outright. Hard pass for me.
Anyways, OP, as I mentioned, a WB that is a “1.0m packer” would absolutely command a purchase price of $30K-40K. A one year lease is generally 1/3 - 1/2 of the horse’s purchase price, so you’re looking at $10K-20K per year. Could be more based on the quality of horse you’re wanting.
It is standard for the lessee to cover mortality and major medical insurance. So, in the unfortunate instance that the horse dies, insurance pays out – and the owner gets the money. You, the lessee, doesn’t keep any of that money. If the horse is injured, you pay the deductible and insurance pays you back for some % of all charges above that. My major medical policy pays for 80% of treatment for an injury/condition once I’ve met the deductible. You can expect this type of insurance on a $40K horse to cost you around $150/month.
You will also be expected to cover all farrier, dental, and routine vet bills during the term.
Basically, the owner is absolved of ALL costs for the lease term. For all intents and purposes, it’s your horse during that time.
Horses get hurt. We all know that. Most leases I’ve been involved in do not state that the horse must be returned in “same” condition. That’s just not always possible. I probably wouldn’t sign a lease like that. In my opinion, you should be willing to care for the horse – injured or no – for the full term of the lease. If the horse is injured, you must follow the vet’s orders and pay for (or submit an insurance claim for) all required therapies. If you don’t want that much exposure, look for a half lease.
I’ve been on the lessor and lessee side many times. Please feel free to pm me questions!
Generally, if it’s any kind of AA capable show horse, including 1m jumpers, most owners will only lease if it stays in the barn in or goes to a a trainers program and they approve of that trainer and program.
TBs are typically more affordable. WB only will limit your available options, add to the price and you likely end up with 30 to 75% TB blood anyway in a Jumper.
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I think people have given you a good general sense of price and expectations to fit your general question. People have also informed you that you won’t be able to contract out of injury or risk, which you seem to want to find a way to do. If you don’t like it, don’t lease.
As to any specific contract term, you won’t know until you find a horse to lease that meets your expectations and price range and the owner provides you with a lease agreement. You’re a bit putting the cart before the horse, IMO.
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A “return in same condition” clause should spell out what happens if the horse isn’t returned as such. This can include anything from a $$$ penalty owed, requiring lessee to pay vet bills even after horse is returned to owners, to a pay-out required to compensate owner for loss of value.
If the consequences are not spelled out, it’s pretty ambiguous what can come of it, and depending on the actual condition of the horse and $$$ amount loss of value, it can end up in a lengthy and expensive civil case.
