Legal calming supplement that works?

[MysticOakRanch]

I don’t know which shows you all go to, but we see the big moving, fancy, athletic horses getting the high scores here - at the rated shows. Some tension, some spooking, those are less of an issue then a horse who shows no brilliance. At the schooling shows, steady may win, but at the rated shows, it takes athletic performance. I actually see the opposite of Hunter Land - sometimes horses who are TOO tense getting the high scores because they are fancy. Plenty of threads here on that topic.

As for supplements - if your horse is actually deficient in a naturally occurring mineral (or vitamin) such as magnesium or B12, then it isn’t illegal. But those supplements only work on a horse that has a deficiency. Just as adding iron to a horse who is a bit anemic is allowed (aka Red Cell supplement). Otherwise, any “performance enhancing” supplement is not allowed - some can be tested for, others can’t.

I would start by taking the horse out and about as much as possible - I have one of those hotter types - the more I get her out, the better she is. Sadly, this time of year is hard - between the wind, the rain, and lack of adequate trailer parking when things get wet (and lack of adequate footing), I tend to start the Spring with a hothead:cool:

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;7910892]
You (and your friend) are absolutely correct. It used to be a horse could act like a horse and still get a decent score. Judges now expect a lackadaisical attitude with a great movement, and you better have it at Intro. Anything else and you’ll find yourself way down at the bottom when they post the scores.[/QUOTE]

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=fullcircledressage;7910909]
It’s this kind of statement that deters me from showing. I’ve got a nice enough horse, and we work hard at it, but I just don’t see us being able to compete with the big boys.[/QUOTE]

Yep. I hear you. I no longer show my older horse who is a VERY nice mover for this very reason. He can get tense and though I can ride it, we can’t compete with Steady Eddy the Warmblood who never bats an eyelash. I have a younger, less tense horse now that I’m bringing along, because I realized competitive scores are never going to happen on any kind of regular basis with the other one.

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7910942]
I don’t know which shows you all go to, but we see the big moving, fancy, athletic horses getting the high scores here - at the rated shows. Some tension, some spooking, those are less of an issue then a horse who shows no brilliance. At the schooling shows, steady may win, but at the rated shows, it takes athletic performance. I actually see the opposite of Hunter Land - sometimes horses who are TOO tense getting the high scores because they are fancy. Plenty of threads here on that topic.

As for supplements - if your horse is actually deficient in a naturally occurring mineral (or vitamin) such as magnesium or B12, then it isn’t illegal. But those supplements only work on a horse that has a deficiency. Just as adding iron to a horse who is a bit anemic is allowed (aka Red Cell supplement). Otherwise, any “performance enhancing” supplement is not allowed - some can be tested for, others can’t.

I would start by taking the horse out and about as much as possible - I have one of those hotter types - the more I get her out, the better she is. Sadly, this time of year is hard - between the wind, the rain, and lack of adequate trailer parking when things get wet (and lack of adequate footing), I tend to start the Spring with a hothead:cool:[/QUOTE]

I frequently scribe, but more for big schooling shows, and there’s definitely a slant toward calm versus brilliant but spooky. Perhaps the rated shows look at it differently. Some of the same judges also are also in the booth at the rated shows, so that would be interesting to have such different expectations…

[mvp]

[QUOTE=fullcircledressage;7910909]
It’s this kind of statement that deters me from showing. I’ve got a nice enough horse, and we work hard at it, but I just don’t see us being able to compete with the big boys.[/QUOTE]

Me, too. I know folks will accuse me of being unsporting or failing to enjoy the journey, but I don’t like to pay what it costs to show these days on a horse who will lose because I just didn’t right a big enough check way back when I bought him.

That being said (and that problem worked around for a couple of decades in HunterWorld), I still have faith that:

1. Correct training really does make a relaxed horse. By “correct” here, I mean pedagogically correct not just “making the horse physically correct.” I think I can/should make a horse like to look for praise and feel invested in doing his job well.

2. The training component of making a nice horse is still larger in present-day dressage world than it is in most of modern day hunter world. In other words, you can get much farther with a lesser mover/nice minded horse via training in dressage than you can in the hunter ring. And that’s too bad for the horses over in HunterWorld. But it does make DressageLand still a relatively untainted corner of the modern showing world.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=nsh;7910922]
Magnesium is not illegal and can benefit your horse is other ways from a nutritional and training perspective. If your horse is tying up or has sore muscles that don’t seem to repair themselves, MagRestore is great! I think it helps horses feel better because their muscles and bodies feel better and as a result their mind becomes relaxed.

Anybody who has worked with a personal trainer knows that on day 2 your muscles hurt more than day 1. Your trainer (if they are good) will tell you what foods to eat and what foods to avoid to help your muscles repair. I don’t see giving your horse magnesium any differently.

UlcerGuard is accepted by all. I don’t know of too many people that don’t give their horses UlcerGuard when going to a 3+ day show that requires 5+ hours of driving. Many horses will pace their stalls, become spooky, and perform poorly if you don’t give them something to calm their stomachs and prevent ulcers. Why the holier than thou attitudes toward magnesium, I don’t know.[/QUOTE]

I think the dead pony at Devon (O. D.ed on magnesium) went a long way to create the Holier Than Thou attitude toward Mg.

But it’s not really about magnesium, per se. And also, the use of magnesium isn’t illegal…. in the right dose. Of course folks over in HunterWorld famously accidentally killing their horse by giving too much too fast weren’t using it at therapeutic levels. And quite frankly, weren’t using it for that purpose. They were using it to produce quieter horses without a chemical substance that would show up in urine.

And, to reiterate, any drug— testable or not-- used with the intention of enhancing performance is illegal.

So one can/should/legitimately can get hot under the collar about folks trying to push the envelope of cheating. It’s not a so-called “holier than thou” thing at all. Rather, it’s about being plain-spoken and clear about what constitutes cheating.

So use the right supplement at the right (and low) doses, and you haven’t violated the drugging-for-performance rule either in it’s intention or letter.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=Jackie Cochran;7910313]
I am sort of old fashioned.

Does your feed have corn in it? Lots of old time regular horse owners way back before cars took over believed that corn made their horses “hot”. If they wanted a calmer horse, they stopped feeding corn (maize.)

I never had any problems with corn but I owned horse breeds that the pre-automobile horse users did not tend to have back then (Arabs, Anglo-Arab, Paso Fino.) However I fed straight grains–whole or crimped oats, corn, and the non-grain alfalfa pellets. When the horses got too snorty in the springtime I cut out the corn. You can’t do that with the prepared sweet feeds and pellets.[/QUOTE]

My horse gets NO grain or sweet feed of any kind. Hay and a small amount of hay pellets (to give him supplements like probiotics, electrolytes in the summer, etc.) and he’s still Mr. ADHD/spooky, though he’s better now at 10 than he was at 5. I’ve been told Smart Calm Ultra works, and it is technically legal, but it does contain L-tryptophan, so as people have said, violates the spirit of the rules, if not the actual rule. I have all sorts of things recommended, and so far none of them have worked much, if at all.

[netg]

Well, and injecting magnesium into a horse isn’t actually intended to help with a deficiency at all!

@KezzaOfficial;7910678

Depends on what “illegal” substance you are asking about. I understand if you are asking because of a legitimate reason (e.g., my horse is on medication that is illegal for me to compete them while they are on it, how long do I have to wait after they finish the medication before it is legal for me to show them; I did not know this substance was illegal because of all the new drug restrictions from the USEF this year, how long do I have to wait until I can show the horse?)
BUT if you are asking to cheat the system, you will eventually get caught.[/QUOTE]

Right. I have a friend whose horse recently developed a health issue which requires periodic extended doses of bute. She actually called USEF, told them the horse was under vet care, and asked what the withdrawal period is. Turns out the dose they were giving while treating the horse is actually very close to what is allowed. (It’s some form of moon blindness, I think, for those who are curious. I’m not a vet nor the owner of the horse, so I don’t know the details of the condition or why bute for some period of time, then off it, is called for.)

@TBROCKS;7910892

You (and your friend) are absolutely correct. It used to be a horse could act like a horse and still get a decent score. Judges now expect a lackadaisical attitude with a great movement, and you better have it at Intro. Anything else and you’ll find yourself way down at the bottom when they post the scores.

Interestingly, when scribing I could see this type of horse winning at training/1st, but aorund 2nd it starts to change, and the horses who fit this description scored very poorly by 3rd level.

I have a friend who is currently planning her 4th level debut who has won a ton from training level-3rd on the same horse. He’s not the lackadaisical swingy type, but he looks generally relaxed, and steady. He’s also a fairly flashy mover. Most of all, though, they simply don’t make mistakes. Take a 7/8 type mover who sometimes loses points for tension, make every circle and transition perfectly located, correct geometry, and seamless, and all of a sudden you find yourself scoring in the 70s every ride. At the lower levels where you don’t do much but w/t/c, a horse who isn’t very adjustable and only has to bend enough for a 20 or 15m circle and floats along will score very well. However, the lack of adjustability that makes that horse so steady and enjoyable to watch makes it unable to start showing the bend and gait differentiation needed at 2nd level. That type of horse can absolutely learn to be successful at upper levels, too - but same as any other horse, to do that it takes training.

My horses who tend toward tense are also super bendy and adjustable. Sure if I’m just supposed to hold a working trot a time and a half around the arena that adjustability means we may lose our tempo or change stride length - but it also means the higher we get up the levels, the happier they are. My sample size is very, very small, but I’m finding that the horses who naturally want to adapt to the rider and adjust and change who don’t naturally present the super steady eddy type of picture also are the ones who really like learning. Instead of fighting collection, they seem to revel in “oh, cool, look what my body can do!”

[QUOTE=nsh;7910922]Magnesium is not illegal and can benefit your horse is other ways from a nutritional and training perspective. If your horse is tying up or has sore muscles that don’t seem to repair themselves, MagRestore is great! I think it helps horses feel better because their muscles and bodies feel better and as a result their mind becomes relaxed.

That attitudes are just toward the “I’ll calm my horse with magnesium because it’s legal!” attitude. It bugs me, because magnesium is NOT a calming supplement unless your horse is deficient, and the philosophy people have of using it only at shows bugs me, because if the horse is deficient it should be getting magnesium all the time. I think I noted it earlier in this thread, but I started my horse on magnesium because of muscle soreness/tightness and one tying up incident (in an extreme situation) and it actually resulted in a horse who bucked very hard, very often - because his muscles were loose enough to allow it. Now he’s learned to just appreciate feeling good and not fight it, and not have to express the bucking so much while I’m riding but instead offer larger gaits… but it made for an interesting 6+ months, and definitely wasn’t a calmer horse!

[Eclectic_Horseman]

More exercise. Especially 24/7 group turnout (or as close to that as you can get.)

High fat, low sugar feed, as a supplement to lots of hay. Hay should be the primary source of calories.

[inca]

@MysticOakRanch;7910942

I don’t know which shows you all go to, but we see the big moving, fancy, athletic horses getting the high scores here - at the rated shows. Some tension, some spooking, those are less of an issue then a horse who shows no brilliance. At the schooling shows, steady may win, but at the rated shows, it takes athletic performance. I actually see the opposite of Hunter Land - sometimes horses who are TOO tense getting the high scores because they are fancy. Plenty of threads here on that topic.

That has been my experience as well. Brilliant will almost always beat the calm, accurate, average mover.

[Pipkin]

I agree, anything that doesn’t come from the vets won’t make a difference.

It might be worth looking at your management. Does he get enough turnout? Try different feeds, avoid rich hay or haylage. Alfalfa chaff makes mine nutty but he can have oats no problem. Could you lunge him the morning before your test? Or even directly before you warm up? Also try and figure out which exercises settle your horse, and which wind him up, and make use of that in your warmup. We do endless 10m half circles and trot walk transitions every few steps, that works. Also things like turn on the forehand, walk pirouette, rein back, all seem quite calming. Walk/canter and mediums fry his brain.

But to be honest the only answer really is exposure. Even if that means going HC for a few outings - not worrying about turnout, and just accepting you are going to get bad scores. Get someone to read your tests. It’s about putting miles on the clock, and I found that taking the pressure off helped me ride better, and not get stressed when it did all go to pot.

My tb was utterly horrible when I first started taking him places, and if he has a break from competing he reverts to heart attack mode. I have had pros ride him and he was equally as bad for them. It looks like his eyes are going to pop out his head. He is just constantly on the edge of exploding, and sometimes over the edge lol, SPOOKY, tense, everything’s an issue etc etc etc. I have honestly felt like giving up in the past after utterly wasted entry fees and eliminations (from dressage!!!) but here he was at the weekend;

So stick with it He’ll get over himself eventually.

So exposure. And make sure you get him in front of your leg at ALL times, mine definitely finds it easier to do that sneaky shy when he’s sucked back behind my leg, so you really have to get after them when you feel them sucking back!!

I know we have it harder than those people with horses that don’t make a big deal about a flowerpot. My younger horse goes out like an old pro and I can concentrate on my riding instead of constantly trying to divert spooks/actually get him in the arena. But look at it as an educational experience

[AllWeatherGal]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;7911045]
I’ve been told Smart Calm Ultra works, and it is technically legal, but it does contain L-tryptophan, so as people have said, violates the spirit of the rules, if not the actual rule. [/QUOTE]

Not for my girl. Nothing but good old-fashioned exposure and work help us maintain focus.

FYI in general: https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Drugs/Rules.aspx

[AA_Hunter]

just an observation–there’s a big difference between injecting magnesium I.V., which can be quickly fatal if the dose is miscalculated, and giving it orally in a supplement, which is harmless (and probably of questionable effectiveness terms of quieting the mind, although many swear by PerfectPrep and the like ).

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=nsh;7910922]
Magnesium is not illegal and can benefit your horse is other ways from a nutritional and training perspective. If your horse is tying up or has sore muscles that don’t seem to repair themselves, MagRestore is great! I think it helps horses feel better because their muscles and bodies feel better and as a result their mind becomes relaxed.

Anybody who has worked with a personal trainer knows that on day 2 your muscles hurt more than day 1. Your trainer (if they are good) will tell you what foods to eat and what foods to avoid to help your muscles repair. I don’t see giving your horse magnesium any differently.

UlcerGuard is accepted by all. I don’t know of too many people that don’t give their horses UlcerGuard when going to a 3+ day show that requires 5+ hours of driving. Many horses will pace their stalls, become spooky, and perform poorly if you don’t give them something to calm their stomachs and prevent ulcers. Why the holier than thou attitudes toward magnesium, I don’t know.[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between treating a health issue with the result that the horse becomes more comfortable / happier and treating a behavior or training issue with a supplement that is designed to have a tranquilising effect.

[JackSprats_Mom]

"Honestly, if you have to use illegal substances to train and compete, then your horse needs a different job. "

So first off I’m not looking to use an illegal substance, I would just like something to take the edge of my mare while she gains confidence in the show ring. So that she doesn’t get as stressed.

I am hauling her all over the place to get her used to be out and about but shows still stress her some. I have no doubt the more we do the better we’ll get but until then I don’t see the point in having her stress if she doesn’t need to.

Mare is out 24/7, on grass hay but is feed Strategy GX to maintain weight in winter. So its not like she doesn’t get out enough or is hopped up on grain and alfalfa.

We are hitting as many schooling shows as we can this winter and she’s definitely improving. Just wanted to make it as stress free as I can for her. She’s a high strung horses naturally.

Thanks for all the replies and help We’ll keep trudging along

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;7910892]
You (and your friend) are absolutely correct. It used to be a horse could act like a horse and still get a decent score. Judges now expect a lackadaisical attitude with a great movement, and you better have it at Intro. Anything else and you’ll find yourself way down at the bottom when they post the scores.[/QUOTE]

I think this depends on the judge. Last year my trainer was showing my boy who decided for some reason to throw in a bucking fit. She stopped him in his tracks, actually said “oh no you don’t”, restarted and still scored in the high 60s and won the class. I was surprised at the lack of deduction for use of voice.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;7910892]
You (and your friend) are absolutely correct. It used to be a horse could act like a horse and still get a decent score. Judges now expect a lackadaisical attitude with a great movement, and you better have it at Intro. Anything else and you’ll find yourself way down at the bottom when they post the scores.[/QUOTE]

This year I was rather disappointed with Intro. This was the second time I have shown a horse at Intro. The first time around the scores made sense. This time around my trainer and I were scratching our heads. The emphasis seemed less on true moving horses getting started in their careers and more on the horses that had the fake head set and looked pretty but weren’t using themselves correctly. My horse doesn’t have the headset yet as our emphasis has been on correct gaits and forward motion, so I placed below horses that were barely plodding along. ;(

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=KezzaOfficial;7910648]
Quiessence definitely works, and its a magnesium supplement. Fabulous, and it is a calming agent.
Used it on a really nervous mare of mine, and it calmed her down good enough.[/QUOTE]

Had really good luck with this on my appaloosa mare that I showed pleasure. She has been previously shown in barrels and would get super hyped up going into the arena even though there weren’t any barrels. This helped us work through those anxieties without either of us risking injury.

[Bogie]

I also suggest trying magnesium. It has helped my OTTB. If your horse isn’t deficient, it won’t help but it’s inexpensive and, when given orally, harmless.

The other things that have helped my high strung, high energy horse are:

• 24/7 turnout
• very low starch grain
• consistent and regular work (I am for 5-6 days/week, even if not for very long each time)

Good luck!

[Draftmare]

If your horse doesn’t need the extra calories (isn’t a hard keeper), I really love Tribute Essential K for getting the vitamins and minerals without the calories. My mare is on a scoop a day as she is an easy keeper but I want her to get all the good stuff that she might not get through hay alone.

[Equi88]

We also used Quiessence with super results. Short of putting my excited little guy on Ritalin, this really helped with his ADHD. He was less stressed at shows, everything was easier, especially with an overnight stay, and at the ripe old age of 7, he outgrew all the issues, and we never looked back.