Lesson pricing question

[findeight]

Also, lesson horses usually work on more basic skills in group lessons while personal horses do more advanced skills in either a small group or private so client gets more of trainers attention. Many barns have assistant trainers or even advanced students teaching the lessons on schoolies while personal horse owners work with the head trainer.

One other thing often not mentioned, most who have personal horses have their own tack, barn schoolies come with saddle, bridle, pad, girth, possibly barn owned crops, sometimes leg protection all included in the lesson price. Usually a barn worker puts it all on the horse, takes it off and cares for the horse post lesson(s). You own it, you DIY unless you pay extra.

[Bristol_Bay]

@CHT

Boarders should not be subsidizing lesson horses.

Yes, but if we want a pipeline to new riders and boarders to keep the barn in business, it makes sense.

Again, my experience is in urban barns where even the trainers get no break on the board.

[onlyTBmares]

My barn charges the same and I own my own horse.

If you look at all the average barns (not the barns that charge $5k/month and constantly buy and sell horses in the upper 6 figures because I really don’t know anything about them) they are all barely scraping by. No one is getting rich of these programs.

Our lessons horses can do something like 10 lessons per week because many are very low impact. Some that do a lot of purely walk beginner lessons can do more. I only pay for 4 lessons a week on my horse. It takes about 4 lessons per week to cover the cost of the care of the lesson horse. So a lesson horse is more profitable than me even though I’ve provided my horse.

You could break it down another way but that’s how we do the math at a barn that consistently keeps its head above water but is not getting rich.

[Ziggy793]

Around me barns do charge a different price for use of a lesson horse, usually ~$20. I agree it makes intuitive sense to charge more for the use of a horse whose bills you’re not paying, but some of the arguments here resonate with me- especially the importance of creating a future pipeline for the trainer via beginner lessons. In my experience, that’s one of the big motivators for trainers to keep schoolies at all as costs are rising, it’s the main way they ensure a steady stream of customers with their own horses paying for training and showing.

[Bending_Line]

–Students riding our horses: classes may be slightly larger
–Students trailering in own horse: we set aside more time. Find it slightly disruptive to have trailer in the way, people cleaning manure in the driveway, horses whinnying at each other, etc.
–Boarders riding their own horse: get a slightly smaller class and arguably more of instructor’s time (not just formal class time but lots of time on general horse care, planning, etc.)

You can make the case for these evening out on the $ and resource side. Using our own horses, we are a well oiled machine and the horses pay their way on volume. Rarely do we have students on their own horses that lesson as much a week as the average school horse works.

[Luseride]

Depending on the liability insurance prices can be higher for horses that the instructor does not own. That is another factor that often is overlooked.

With no claims in almost thirty years my rates continue to climb.

[dogsbody1]

@Bending_Line

Using our own horses, we are a well oiled machine and the horses pay their way on volume. Rarely do we have students on their own horses that lesson as much a week as the average school horse works.

This makes sense. I don’t think I appreciated how easy it was for lesson horses to pay for themselves, such that the marginal cost per lesson for someone on their own horse vs. a school horse is a factor of $10-20.

From a business perspective, I can see how that’s not a big enough difference to justify the hassle of charging different prices. But from an owner perspective, I still wouldn’t mind getting that $10-20 discount.

Ten dollars might seem like a trifling amount to save on a lesson. But it does add up.

[Bearx2]

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/can-work-life-balance-and-a-savings-account-exist-in-the-horse-industry/

I think this blog might offer some insight into your question. The reality is that many people under charge for board ( as in if they charged what the board is really worth no one would be able to afford it) and make up the difference in lessons and training . It is why many farms require you to be in a lesson or training program .

[CHT]

That is backwards from my experience.

I pay more for insurance to teach people on horses that I own/control vs people on their own horses.

I cannot wrap my head around pay the same for lessons on your own horse (unless the coach is much more qualified or the lessons are longer/more focused), but if we are talking the same coach with the same instructor time? That isn’t a very sustainable business model. Just like the idea of not charging enough for board to cover expenses and making up the difference in lessons. That makes little to no sense. The paradigm needs to change. Barn owners should not be subsidizing boarders and boarders should not be subsidizing lesson students.

We also need to go back to accepting lesson horses can work more than one hour a day five days a week. It was common in the 80’s-90’s for horses to work 2-3 hours a day. That shift would also make lessons more affordable without boarders subsidizing lesson horse students.

[freshman]

What kinda lesson are we even doing? A lesson? For horse or rider? Both? It can end up very much being both in most cases.

Look, I don’t know your horse like I know mine. What do you want out of this? Is your horse even suitable? Do you even KNOW what I am asking and is your horse even able to do it? Do you want riding lessons or training rides? Those are 2 very, very different things.

There are variables in every program, but overall I would charge more or at least the same for RIDING lessons on your own horse vs my school horse. Yep, you would pay more to drag your own horse into my house and ride in my lesson. Look, how many times have owners been late with their own horses? More late arrivals and just cancellations, in general, just to offer this and do it. It’s just due every dang thing that it takes to get to your own dang place, load your own dang beast, and travel to my own freaking place AND being ready to freaking ride ON TIME. I want to quit haul-ins almost every lesson, no joke.

Not to mention the terrible trailer drivers and that have dinged my barns, my fences, my trailer boarders trailers, etc, as they haul in.

Yes, and also sometimes those haul-is horses are also SICK. Disease exposure is real. If my barn didn’t get the latest virus at closest the big competition center or the other places they went this weekend, then the haul-ins rubbing noses with mine probably did. More is not better. Just more risk.

[clanter]

@CHT

It was common in the 80’s-90’s for horses to work 2-3 hours a day.

the barn I worked at in 70s they had an older Morgan as a lesson horse. Lessons were 30 minutes, if the student’s lesson was longer they had to get off and remount as Pete knew when 30 minutes was up and would just stop.

[endlessclimb]

@freshman

More late arrivals and just cancellations, in general, just to offer this and do it.

First off, not all haul ins are like what you describe. I am on time, in full, every time. I take my time and my instructor’s time seriously.

And, if they’re late, who cares? They get the time slot they paid for, no more and no less. You show up 15 minutes late? Great, your 45 minute lesson is now a 30 minute one.

If you aren’t charging people for smashing up your property, that’s on you.

As far as sickness, that’s troublesome and makes me wonder about the clients you’re keeping. The market is such that you can drop the crappy ones.

[Luseride]

You forgot the ones that then can’t get the horse to load up and you end up having to do that also.

[Luseride]

Unless you are at that barn you don’t know what the market is. Different areas have very different clientele and opportunities to maintain their business.

[endlessclimb]

That’s fair. But the poster themselves indicated a desire to discontinue haul-in lessons, so I assumed they can survive without them. Instead, I would suggest to them that they up their standards and procedures, so they aren’t such a headache.

[trubandloki]

@endlessclimb

I would suggest to them that they up their standards and procedures, so they aren’t such a headache.

You can not force people to be how you want them to be, sometimes it is easier just to say - I am not doing this anymore.

I know when I used to haul into my trainer’s barn for lessons, the way the parking was set up, there was only one place to park a trailer and it was very much in the way. No amount of foot stomping would change that haul in trailers were a nuisance.

[endlessclimb]

@trubandloki

You can not force people to be how you want them to be, sometimes it is easier just to say - I am not doing this anymore.

Or, you can tell the problem people and keep the ones that aren’t an issue.

The trailer parking, I hear you. Some places aren’t set up to have something in the driveway and be able to get around it, and don’t have anywhere else to park.

[Ziggy793]

Haul-ins are definitely a pain, and I’ve never been at a barn that didn’t charge more for haul-ins (in the form of a ring use/facility fee).

But my impression is that OP was asking about boarders at that facility riding their own horses vs. lesson students riding lesson horses.