Let's Talk Money: Price of a Top Hunter

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=lrp1106;7015589]
Not to discredit any of the top hunter riders, but I think the reason these horses consistently win is because they know their job. Not only are they beautiful, absolutely amazing movers, but when they get in the ring, they know. I would call that ammy friendly - knowing your job. Not all of these horses are ammy friendly, of course, but I suspect a large part are, simply because they know what to do.[/QUOTE]

Knowing their job doesn’t make them Ammy friendly. One top hunter ridden by a junior looks effortless. Truth is, he’s a prick to ride. She and her trainer MAKE him look easy. He’s priced around 475 last I heard and had multiple people flying in to try him (after Devon I believe).

Ammy friendly would make him a higher price tag, if he was point and shoot.

[findeight]

Jeesh…since when do we expect everybody to respond to exactly what any OP asked and restrict their comments to exactly that and nothing more?

OP did ask about “outrageous” prices for top Hunters which is an editorial comment opening the door for discussion about why the cost

What Hunter actually sold for " mid 7 figures"? Really got that, not just the rumor mill price? Elite level Show Jumpers have gone low to mid 7 after Olympic medals, haven’t heard anything about a Hunter around 3 to 5 million.

[hunterrider23]

[QUOTE=findeight;7015751]
Jeesh…since when do we expect everybody to respond to exactly what any OP asked and restrict their comments to exactly that and nothing more?

OP did ask about “outrageous” prices for top Hunters which is an editorial comment opening the door for discussion about why the cost

What Hunter actually sold for " mid 7 figures"? Really got that, not just the rumor mill price? Elite level Show Jumpers have gone low to mid 7 after Olympic medals, haven’t heard anything about a Hunter around 3 to 5 million.[/QUOTE]

I would say but it would be incredibly rude to give out names. He sold for 3.7 right after Indoors last year and was bought by a well known owner. Very good jr/ammy, pro, and derby horse, but certainly not worth it. I believe two people got into a bidding war over an originally 800k price tagged which escalated quickly with outlandish prices being thrown around.

[McGurk]

The price I heard bandied about for Rumba was 700K; I have absolutely no idea if that’s true or not, but that was the rumor when he was first sold, I kinda doubt that it was higher. That horse is the very definition of Ammy friendly. Given the rest of the prices in hunter land, I don’t think that was outrageous for a top of the line, multiple Derby winner that also can do the Children’s and look happy doing it.

I don’t doubt that there’s been a 7 figure hunter, I just don’t have the insider information to know who it was.

I also think that the previous poster’s comment about the cost of campaigning was spot on. People who are outraged by the cost of a good hunter with legit A mileage need to understand exactly what it costs to give a horse that mileage. Can you recoup that cost on most horses? No, that’s why hunters are not an investment. If you get a Rumba or a Jersey Boy or an Invincible, yes, trainers try to recoup the cost of producing THAT HORSE and the previous 5 that didn’t finish up that well.

[findeight]

I believe you, hunterrider123, no need for names.

But that’s a good illustration of how prices can be misleading when special circumstances effect that price. Like a bidding war and, sometimes, a celebrity owner on either side of the negotiations.

Back to OPs original question, I think it’s fair to say a top elite level Hunter easily could land around the 750k-900k range. Stick that other zero on there and even the wealthy might pause. I know some folks whip out the checkbook at 90k but squirm at 100k, no reason to think the same perceived price “barrier” doesn’t exsisting between 900k and the m word. Kind of the same theory as pricing at 9.99, 19.99 or 99.99 for retail goods.

[Victorious]

So, the question has to be asked- would you, assuming you are flush with cash- buy a top hunter? No glib answers…really think about it! All of a sudden, you have a horse that everyone is going to watch. You win- good! Essentially, you bought your blue ribbon. You lose, wtf?? You paid too much! Obviously, I’m making it more black and white than reality, but still. You have a horse that you pretty much have to show( that’s his main purpose) he is too nice to hang out at home. The pressure to perform on your part is sky high. I’m just curious how many would love that? I would love to RIDE a top hunter, but own? Not so much!! I have other things ( family😉) that take precedence. Plus I would worry all the time about every step he took, etc! And the idea of buying my way to the top feels a little creepy…to me! Not judging others!!

[equisusan]

If I had the kind of money that I would buy one of these horses I think I’d enjoy it. Why would I feel all that pressure if I can turn around and buy another? I do enjoy making up my own horses but its harder to do now that I’m older. Would be fun to just pilot for awhile.

[findeight]

You betcha I’d buy a couple of them suckers. And a top QH so my old body can dress up and pitty pat around. Maybe a Three Gaited horse too, always wanted to watch something I owned do The Red Mile and Worlds. Perhaps I should be like Mrs Smith years ago being helped out of a wheelchair at 80 into a buggy seat behind her Hackneys.

I don’t consider it just “buying the ribbon” either, more like financing the career of trainer/rider, breeder and the show management folks as well as providing top care for a top horse and making a the decisions in that horses best interests.

There is nothing wrong with spending money if you have it. Without the Smiths, Clarks and Parker’s in our sport? Many would have missed the opportunities these people provided them to train, ride/drive and show all the way from Pony Finals to the Olympics.

When I win the Powerball, I’ll join them.

[Kat]

I’ve had the pleasure of getting to ride some of the mid to highsix figure range and they haven’t all been easy rides but they have all made me feel like a million bucks. If I had the money I would buy one in a quick minute. However (obviously) most of their worth comes from their show results so if you bought one without planning to show it, it would be a little odd.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

If I had UNLIMITED funds I would buy said horses…

1. low-mid five figure 4 or 5 year old jumper prospect
2. Mid five figure 4 year old hunter prospect
3. 6 figure 8-10 year old working hunter/derby horse
4. Grand Prix jumper (most likely for someone else to ride ;))
5. One fancy large pony for future daughter…I despise ponies.
6. Racehorse(s)
7. Barrel horse
8. 3 quarter horses for me and significant other and friends to trail ride on…One said quarter horse will hopefully be semi-fancy enough for 2’6 for future daughter (see above…must avoid poinies)
9. miniature horse
10. I would probably accumulate many retired/rescue horses as well

OK. That’s enough day dreaming for the day. But seriously, would definitely buy a racehorse.

[jlphilli]

[QUOTE=woodhillsmanhattan;7016088]
If I had UNLIMITED funds I would buy said horses…

1. low-mid five figure 4 or 5 year old jumper prospect
2. Mid five figure 4 year old hunter prospect
3. 3 figure 8-10 year old working hunter/derby horse
4. Grand Prix jumper (most likely for someone else to ride ;))
5. One fancy large pony for future daughter…I despise ponies.
6. Racehorse(s)
7. Barrel horse
8. 3 quarter horses for me and significant other and friends to trail ride on…One said quarter horse will hopefully be semi-fancy enough for 2’6 for future daughter (see above…must avoid poinies)
9. miniature horse
10. I would probably accumulate many retired/rescue horses as well

OK. That’s enough day dreaming for the day. But seriously, would definitely buy a racehorse.[/QUOTE]

Share?

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=findeight;7015869]
You betcha I’d buy a couple of them suckers. And a top QH so my old body can dress up and pitty pat around. Maybe a Three Gaited horse too, always wanted to watch something I owned do The Red Mile and Worlds. Perhaps I should be like Mrs Smith years ago being helped out of a wheelchair at 80 into a buggy seat behind her Hackneys.

When I win the Powerball, I’ll join them.[/QUOTE]

Oh, me too. I could happily join Betsee Parker and own multiple amazing horses and spread them around liberally to deserving trainers and enjoy watching them go. Oh, and a few 3-gaited and 5-gaited horses as well.

[Tha_Ridge]

I don’t know about $3-5 million for a hunter, but I do know two who have gone for $2 million and many numbers below that. Obviously once you get to Olympic show jumpers, you’re looking at double that.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Tha Ridge;7016140]
I don’t know about $3-5 million for a hunter, but I do know two who have gone for $2 million and many numbers below that. Obviously once you get to Olympic show jumpers, you’re looking at double that.[/QUOTE]

I’m relieved. When someone named “Mid-7 figures” I was surprised since that means 5 million dollors, not merely “more than 1 million… which is alotta money.”

My values wouldn’t let me spend that much on a horse. Too many other good things to spend that kind of discretionary income on. And I it’s a proportion problem: If I had X amount of fun on a 4-figure horse, would I have proportionately more fun on a 7-figure horse? I like 'em all and while I appreciate a talented, kind and broke horse, I don’t think I could make the math vs. joy ratio work.

I don’t mind if people editorialize while we are on the topic. People should pause before thinking it’s just fine to spend more than 1 M on a show horse when they could do a lot of social good with that same pile of money.

[Cannonball]

@FineAlready;7016156

After that amount…it becomes a lot less clear what you are REALLY paying for and if that extra money buys you anything “tangible” that you couldn’t get for $100,000 or under.

Couldn’t disagree more with this statement. To say anything over $100,000 doesn’t buy anything “tangible” is naive.

Results are tangible, horses hitting their chins with with their knees is tangible, winning flat classes with 20 horses at “AA” shows is tangible, jumping from the tight spot and making it look easy is tangible. Shop around a little and you will see very “tangible” reasons why horses are over $100,000.

[PaintedHunter]

I don’t think I could ever pay that much for a horse, no matter how much funding I had. Like others, I’d rather have a well-rounded menagerie. I always remember that every horse is just two seconds away from planning his demise and/or career-ending injury doing something stupid.

[Lori]

[QUOTE=woodhillsmanhattan;7016088]
If I had UNLIMITED funds I would buy said horses…

1. low-mid five figure 4 or 5 year old jumper prospect
2. Mid five figure 4 year old hunter prospect
3. 3 figure 8-10 year old working hunter/derby horse
4. Grand Prix jumper (most likely for someone else to ride ;))
5. One fancy large pony for future daughter…I despise ponies.
6. Racehorse(s)
7. Barrel horse
8. 3 quarter horses for me and significant other and friends to trail ride on…One said quarter horse will hopefully be semi-fancy enough for 2’6 for future daughter (see above…must avoid poinies)
9. miniature horse
10. I would probably accumulate many retired/rescue horses as well

OK. That’s enough day dreaming for the day. But seriously, would definitely buy a racehorse.[/QUOTE]

Buy a few nice smalls and mediums, I will train and school them for future daughter to choose from!!! I LOVE ponies!
LOL

[Linny]

[QUOTE=Victorious;7015795]
So, the question has to be asked- would you, assuming you are flush with cash- buy a top hunter? No glib answers…really think about it! All of a sudden, you have a horse that everyone is going to watch. You win- good! Essentially, you bought your blue ribbon. You lose, wtf?? You paid too much! Obviously, I’m making it more black and white than reality, but still. You have a horse that you pretty much have to show( that’s his main purpose) he is too nice to hang out at home. The pressure to perform on your part is sky high. I’m just curious how many would love that? I would love to RIDE a top hunter, but own? Not so much!! I have other things ( family😉) that take precedence. Plus I would worry all the time about every step he took, etc! And the idea of buying my way to the top feels a little creepy…to me! Not judging others!![/QUOTE]

The only person who can decide you “paid to much” is you! (meaning the person who paid.) At the elite levels there are egos and other concerns. Some buyers are rich and looking for a horse to ride. Others want one to watch him perform or they (or their trainer) have seen potential in a horse that they think they can improve and that may thus be worth more someday.
I work in racing and have seen horses sell for millions and millions over the years. Some pan out and make a profit, others end up being re-homed into a riding arenas.
Heck ifI were a billionaire, I might buy a top show hunter just to put him in my yard and ffed him treats, just because I wanted to. Of course the very wealthy didn’t get that way typically by spending good money on bad investments, so in most cases a buyer of a top horse wants to get something. What that is may differ from buyer to buyer. maybe they want ringside seats at the Dixon Oval, or they want to provide a nice horse for young aspiring hunter riders (or their trainer) or they want something to ride themselves, or they just want their name in the [I]Chronicle.

[/I]

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=Cannonball;7016216]
Couldn’t disagree more with this statement. To say anything over $100,000 doesn’t buy anything “tangible” is naive.

Results are tangible, horses hitting their chins with with their knees is tangible, winning flat classes with 20 horses at “AA” shows is tangible, jumping from the tight spot and making it look easy is tangible. Shop around a little and you will see very “tangible” reasons why horses are over $100,000.[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of horses under $100,000 that can do all of the things you list. It also depends on which AA shows you are attending. At the AA shows in my area, frankly, you can win on a $10,000 or under horse. Pretty often. Yes, under $10,000. So no need to go over $100,000, certainly. If you are talking about winning at WEF, yeah, that’s different. But I also care exactly not at all about winning at WEF.

It’s a matter of “degree” and somewhat a matter of opinion on whether one horse is tangibly “better” than another.

And I’m not actually saying that no horses are ever worth more than $100,000. I’m just saying that above that number, I think there is a certainly a point of diminishing returns where it becomes less and less clear that what your money is buying you is demonstrably “better” than a quality horse that was less expensive.

For me, it is also what MVP noted…I really have met very few horses that I have not liked, so I can enjoy a less expensive horse just as much as I can enjoy a very pricey one. I like my own horse a lot more than some six figure horses I have ridden, and he was less than $10,000.

[TrakHack]

[QUOTE=Victorious;7015795]
So, the question has to be asked- would you, assuming you are flush with cash- buy a top hunter? [/QUOTE]

Probably not one at the very top, but the next “up and comer” for a pro whom I like? Sure.

All of my personal riding needs can be met on 4-figure horses, but I like supporting the sport. Where I work, we are encouraged to set “BHAGs” (big, hairy, audacious goals - I don’t love the term…). My BHAG is to be so successful at my company that I have enough money to own and support the ongoing training and campaigning of a top-level horse.

I don’t know if I will ever be able to support many top horses like some prominent owners do, but one or two could actually happen. What I would love to do is find a trainer I believe in, fund the purchase of younger horses with excellent potential (so spend limit per younger horse of $50k or so), and partner in the development of those horses with an end goal of producing a top competitor. I like the process, not just the end goal. Once developed, the top competitor horse would have a price tag high enough to likely keep him with the trainer - a price where if the horse sells, it will really be worth it. If he doesn’t sell and when he’s ready to step down from the big rings, selectively lease until he’s ready for real retirement and then bring him home.

I would probably want to the trainer or their assistant to help me with my 4-figure horse now and then, too. I am way more talented at making money than I am at riding, but I want to have fun with both pursuits.

Of course, with this being horses, so many things can happen along the way and the “top competitor” goal may not be achieved, so my success would be defined by the process and doing what is right for each particular horse. If one doesn’t make it to the top, that won’t automatically equate to failure.

Now, back to work so I can get closer to making this all happen…