I’d run screaming in the other direction if any medical professional went straight to joint injections without a diagnostic workup.
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Flexions, by definition, are a diagnostic workup. Let’s not go down the rabbit hole of twisting words into something totally opposite of their meaning.
Having history of the horse and doing flexions can be totally within the realm of “full diagnostics.” It doesn’t matter what the joint looks like right now, if the horse is positive to flexions and injections have helped in the past.
Flexion tests are a quick and dirty preliminary tool to try and localize the problem.
Nothing more.
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If a vet 1) has known a horse for a number of years, 2) has history of the horse from prior vets, and 3) has history of injections helping the lameness in said joint, there’s no reason to waste the owner’s money by x-raying every year to say “yup, cartilage still looks like shit.”
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Thanks @Ghazzu for your willingness to share your expertise with us. Most of us really appreciate it.
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Yes, thank you for re wording it in an easier to understand way.
My PT specifically said there were adhesions in my knee, likely (I’m guessing) between the ligaments and fascia. MFR helped me tremendously, so my question is, what joints in horses have ligaments that are located where we can actually do MFR, and is there anyone practicing this? My question is not “does it work,” because it has already been proven to me that it does.
So, in other words, there has been a dignostic workup performed, and not simply a flexion test alone.
Who exactly is “twisting” things here?
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One horse in particular had X-rays maybe…5 years ago? And the vet that injected her recently did not look at them. Nothing is being twisted.
As an aside, one of my complaints about younger vets (and specifically vets working for practices owned by large corporations), is that there’s almost no trust in what an educated owner says and no partnership with them in diagnosing and treating the horse. If I, owner/trainer of a horse (with a fair amount of veterinary training) say that a horse needs adequan/injections/etc because of my prior experience with those treatments on this horse, I expect that opinion to be respected. And, if a preliminary exam (or no exam at all in the case of Adequan) shows that those things are warranted, I expect my vet to not want to do a full lameness with X-rays, blocking, etc, just to confirm what I’ve already told them.
I’ve chosen my vet carefully because we have a partnership in treating my horses, and when I say “hey I think Dobbin needs his hocks done” we jog him, do flexions, and get it done.
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Make up your mind.
Was there an actual history and perexisting medical records on the horse or not?
Was the horse examined or not?
Was an accurate diagnosis of lameness made or not?
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The records that the vet had were “this horse had PRP previously and it worked great.” The joints were never blocked (stifles) and the 5 year old X-rays were never looked at. The horse was jogged, flexed and jogged again, and injected. All was right with the world.
Aside from the fact that your responses on this thread are devolving into a series of non sequiturs, that does not constitute a medical record.
If there is any doubt of that in your mind, send a copy along to the board of registration in your state and ask them.
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No, the vet did not get the horse’s medical record from the beginning of time. Not sure what else you want from me.
Let’s get back to the topic at hand instead of derailing the thread even more.
The topic, according to the thread title, is “ligament adhesions”.
Have you ever had a horse diagnosed with one?
Which ligament(s) were involved?
Was it done via flexion tests alone, or was any diganostic anesthesia or imaging performed?
Was it treated with an “injection”?
Of what?
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The ligament adhesions is a totally different conversation than injections.
You and another poster said you would “run screaming” from a vet that did injections without X-rays which is something I mentioned in relation to my own body way up on the first post:
This thread is about manually manipulating adhesions to resolve joint pain. That’s it.
And yet you provide not one example of a ligamentous adhesion that might be manipulated.
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How many more times would you like me to say it?
You’re clearly making an attempt to poke holes in the idea that manual stimulation to ligament/fascia adhesions is useful. I’m not asking anyone if it’s useful. It is. I’m asking if anyone does this with horses.
Since you keep asking questions about which ligament and where the adhesions are, instead of saying “yes, so and so has had success with manipulating this ligament,” you clearly don’t know anyone doing this. Feel free to find another thread to spend your time on.
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@Ghazzu, question; wouldn’t you need to know which ligament is involved in order to treat properly? (with MFR) opps 2 questions, wouldn’t you need a proper medical workup to find the correct ligament?
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My question is not “is someone treating THIS ligament.” My question is, “is anyone treating any ligament adhesions with massage?”
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My questions stands, wouldn’t you need to isolate the tendon before treating
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Absolutely. In my case, with my knee, it was done via palpation and my reaction to palpation (did it hurt).
