Limit on how Much Soaked Alfalfa is Safe to Feed at Once?

[JB]

@SmlHpy1

Pellets aren’t long enough to be long stem forage, therefore they act as a concentrate. That’s what I’ve been told and I try to treat mine as such

Not sure who told you that, but they heard and/or read incorrectly

The study done on the 5lb of concentrates was on high cereal grain meals, though I don’t remember if that was straight cereal grains, or a commercial feed high in cereal grains. Either way, it doesn’t matter. The issue is how much starch you’re pushing into the hind gut.

Even then, the actual answer is 0.5% of the horse’s weight as your max, so that 5lb is for a 1000lb horse, but it’s 6lb for a 1200lb horse, 7lb for a 1400lb horse, etc.

And, the lower the starch (which typically means it’s highly forage- and fiber-based), the more you can push the amount a bit. So, something like a non-cereal grain senior feed could be fed at 6lb for a 1000lb horse. I wouldn’t push more than that.

yes, hay pellets is a concentrated form of food, but “concentrates” is usually limited to a bagged commercial feed or cereal grains… But, like “grain”, “concentrates” really needs to be defined in context in order to make any statements or implications about what it’s doing

@SmlHpy1

I had a nutrtionist from a feed company tell me that pellets have to count towards my 5 lb limit, but cubes do not.

An actual nutritionist? Or a feed rep? What company? I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Tribute, many of these reps give the WORST advice No actual PhD or even MSc iwth experience nutritionist would say that about hay pellets

@SmlHpy1

Long stem fiber is processed differently in the GI system. Once it’s not a long enough length to qualify it’s not processed the same.

The difference is the scratch factor, not how the fiber is processed. Pellets and finely chopped hay doesn’t have the same scratch factor that regular hay does. That scratch factor is part of what helps keep manure moving along. It doesn’t mean you can’t have a healthy horse without any long stem forage, certainly all these old toothless horses prove that. It just takes more care to make sure things move along

Not all forage is digested, and it’s not supposed to be

[Simkie]

@SmlHpy1

I don’t need to get slammed here. I’m just asking questions.

If you’re just going to say “no, you’re wrong” when people provide an answer to your question, why ask at all?

Yes, pellets can be treated as hay. If you don’t want to approach it that way, cool. But that doesn’t make someone else choosing to treat pellets as hay wrong.

[SmlHpy1]

I don’t believe I ever said “You’re wrong”.
I asked questions. I stated what I had heard. But pardon me, I never said you were wrong. I was open to conversation and asking questions and sharing what I have heard/read. I guess this isn’t the place for that.

[mmeqcenter]

@SmlHpy1

Pellets aren’t long enough to be long stem forage, therefore they act as a concentrate. That’s what I’ve been told and I try to treat mine as such

You may not have stated the words “You’re wrong,” but that was clearly what you meant by this response to me saying it is still hay.

@SmlHpy1

Long stem fiber is processed differently in the GI system

For clarification, there’s no such thing as “long stem fiber.” It’s long stem forage.

Fiber is a chemical with a specifical chemical makeup (well, there’s multiple types of fibers so, fibers are chemicals with specific chemical makeups). There are long-chain fibers and short-chain fibers, but these are referring to the chemical structure and are not changed by a physical alteration like chewing or cutting. Similar to how cutting a brick of butter into a small piece for your potato. It’s still butter, it’s just a smaller piece. So chewing forage still leaves the same forage, just in smaller pieces, same as chopping up and pressing into a block or pellet. Starting with a long stem doesn’t have any chemical difference than the resulting short stem of the same material. I have been unable to find any literature with a reason for needing long-stem forage other than the chew-time consideration for digestion in grazing animals. I see no chemical reason why the same chemical would be processed differently in the digestive tract. Other than that a too-large length of hay that doesn’t get chewed up enough may not have enough time to digest fully, so you might see more pieces of intact hay in their poo.

[Djones]

They aren’t a concentrate. They are dehydrated/compressed hay in two different forms.

[SmlHpy1]

Typo. I meant forage.

I never meant to imply anyone was wrong. If a horse can consume lbs of alfalfa pellets in a short time that would be a concern in terms of it moving to the small intestine too quickly.

I’ll bow out of this conversation now. Again it was meant to be a conversation. That’s all. Have a great day.

[Djones]

I’m glad you asked and shared what you’d heard. Hopefully you took somethings away to consider. Have a good one!

[JB]

@SmlHpy1

If a horse can consume lbs of alfalfa pellets in a short time that would be a concern in terms of it moving to the small intestine too quickly.

If he’s eating 10lb in 5 minutes, that might be a problem. I don’t know if that’s even possible, let alone being done by enough horses. And if the pellets are soaked, food is coming in and moving along at a slower rate since it’s diluted with water.

[mmeqcenter]

I knew a warmblood stallion that, when given a free-choice alfalfa block in his pasture (common practice in Florida), ate it in three days. 500+ pounds. I guess he might be one that might inhale several pounds of soaked alfalfa pellets in a few minutes.

[Montanas_Girl]

The “5 lbs per meal” rule on concentrate feeding is a very general guideline. The real purpose is to limit starch intake in a short period of time, and the actual “rule” is more nuanced and based on the specific starch content of the meal.

Is there a reason this horse is being fed a mix of complete feed, alfalfa pellets, and beet pulp? As a nutritionist, my recommendation would be to replace the alfalfa pellets and beet pulp with an equal amount (by weight) of the senior feed. Assuming you are feeding a quality brand, you will increase the digestibility and balance of the overall diet doing this. You will probably also reduce the volume (certainly will compared to soaked beet pulp, which has a very high volume to weight ratio) of the overall meal. Complete feeds are made specifically for these kinds of situations.