This. His followers are showing Training Level abilities with some lateral work of higher levels. But even then, LHJ kept her hands very high when PK says clearly in that video that high hands are only for when the horse’s head comes up. So she isn’t even advanced enough to know the difference? I agree with that other poster who said LHJ has no business saying anything about anyone else’s training.
Also… what is with the no tall boots, no helmet thing?!
I didn’t know that horses cared if a rider was wearing tall boots or helmets. I learn something new here on COTH.
I’m pretty sure horses don’t care, but my legs would be so bruised from the stirrup leathers if I didn’t wear tall boots or half chaps, and my head is pretty important to me and I’d like it to stay intact…
Just wondering why no tall boots/half chaps and why nobody seems to be wearing a helmet in the current video(s) now that helmet awareness is so much greater.
The helmet and tall boots Nazis hate you!:lol: I’m in France right now and it’s amazing how we can sit around a table here and debate everything without anyone getting aggressive, insulting and uncivilized. But the delicious wine does help. :yes:
Quite frankly, nobody has gotten aggressive on this thread. If I insulted anyone by asking why the trainers of Légèreté don’t wear them, I’m sorry.
Tall boots/half chaps serve a valid purpose. I don’t even think I need to comment on the validity of wearing a helmet. I asked a question about the no boots/chaps/helmet thing. I’m assuming you too don’t wear a helmet being that you called me a “helmet Nazi”?
Thank you for your comment Heinz. Yes most of the clinicians she is referring to in this particular article are western. These days what is going on in that world is pretty hellacious, as we all well know.
L H-J does come originally from a western show world. She showed extensively and successfully in this world for years her bio is on her FB page. If you are so inclined, it is on FB search Willow Grove Ranch. Or search it on Google and her website will come up.
She is not self promoting herself. I started this thread, albeit contentious, because I have been around COTH for awhile now and find it extremely helpful and a good community. I have had success with my WB with this training as opposed to the competition based training I had before.
But, whatever, I’ll just make a friendly suggestion, go to one of her clinics if you can find a free weekend. You may find some of the exercises interesting and the group of followers some of the nicest and most open people. There are generally all levels of riders so you’ll get an idea for many levels of experience.
What you won’t get are a bunch of people down talking competition dressage. They just recognize the difference and have chosen this path to school qnd prepare their horses instead of that, in spite of the fact that some of them compete in Eventing or Dressage.
Merci Samantha, no I absolutely wear a helmet! I knocked my noggin so much when I was young and dumb that I need one now to protect myself.
I just think it is a choice, albeit stupid to not wear one when one rides greenies, but it is still a choice. And no apology was needed from you, as your responses have remained direct and matter of fact. Thx for that!
^ Correction, and not just riding greenies, when one goes out on trail, in new venues, in short, a helmet is primordial for myself.
ATE=soloudinhere;n10221806]
In the, oh, 15 years I have been on this board before you came along, it’s come to my attention that since the Chronicle is a US magazine, that the vast majority of membership is also in the US.
So nice of you to grace us with your foreign presence, but I went to see what the requirements are for a license.
Pay for 10 clinics over 3 years, prove you can walk/trot/canter and flex in the halt. That’s it. There’s your license, to call yourself a “classical master.”[/QUOTE]
Actually the exams for the licensed teachers are more rigorous than this, which is why folks are taking a while to pass them.
The basic level is already quite advanced with lateral work and flying changes. You need to do all of these things: a riding demo on your own horse, a half hour demonstration of inhand and longing, present a student riding at the same level, do an exam I think written or oral? And present a theory lecture. Maybe OP can specify more about the different levels.
Realistically no one is passing those exams who isn’t entering the program as a working trainer and coach already, and who doesn’t have a very strong work ethic and determination and the motivation and ability to do their homework year round.
I’ve seen talented folks drift away from the licensing process because they don’t really have the life situation, the personal focus, or the right horse. I’ve seen others drop out because they didn’t enter with the basic skills to keep up.
If it was easy to get accredited there’d be a lot more than the current 3 or 4 in North America!
[QUOTE=Pembroke;n10221975]
Honestly, I can’t get over how scrawny PK’s (supposedly) upper-level horse is in that video. Practically no muscles to speak of."
Maybe this is just the difference between a ballet dancer and a gymnast? Both strong supple and fit, but one more explosive and one more floaty?
I could not find any details in her bio other than a general statement that she has worked with different breeds/disciplines, on both her website and FB page. Perhaps there is more somewhere but I honestly don’t have an extra half an hour to waste digging around to find it. I saw some pictures of her with breed circuit horses, and riding in western saddles. My opinion was formed from simply reading the piece you posted without any other background information; she doesn’t mention having any experience with or extensive knowledge of those disciplines at all, so I took it at face value: a dressage trainer bashing specific clinicians in wholly different disciplines.
I have been familiar with Legerete for a few years. I am glad you’ve had success with the method and I don’t have any personal objection to it, I think there are many roads to Rome and “success” is defined by your own goals. I have ridden with a variety of trainers that ascribe to different methods. To be completely honest, I was also not impressed with the quality of her riding in the video you shared, and thus would not be interested in attending one of her clinics, but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have something to offer other riders. I would happily audit a clinic with Mr. Karl.
But as you said, whatever.:rolleyes:
Actually the exams for the licensed teachers are more rigorous than this, which is why folks are taking a while to pass them.
The basic level is already quite advanced with lateral work and flying changes. You need to do all of these things: a riding demo on your own horse, a half hour demonstration of inhand and longing, present a student riding at the same level, do an exam I think written or oral? And present a theory lecture. Maybe OP can specify more about the different levels.
Realistically no one is passing those exams who isn’t entering the program as a working trainer and coach already, and who doesn’t have a very strong work ethic and determination and the motivation and ability to do their homework year round.
I’ve seen talented folks drift away from the licensing process because they don’t really have the life situation, the personal focus, or the right horse. I’ve seen others drop out because they didn’t enter with the basic skills to keep up.
If it was easy to get accredited there’d be a lot more than the current 3 or 4 in North America!
That is not basic level you are talking about, but Level IV.
All the levels and their requirements can be found on the KP webpage: https://www.philippe-karl.com/exams-and-levels
[quote="“LilRanger,post:90,topic:450560”]
Which don’t have muscles in your world? Both ballet dancers and gymnast are extremely in shape and have muscles most of us could only dream of.
With the correct training, a horse gets FIT. There is no escaping it. I have yet to see an upper level horse that’s been correctly trained that’s not well muscled.
No, thy both have muscles, but ballet dancers aren’t beefy like gymnasts. I didn’t see PK’s horse as not fit, I saw it as lean and fit. fitness appears different with different training. Sprinters don’t look like endurance runners. I see that you saw the horse as unfit, I was offering a different opinion, that’s all.
I think the definition of “correctly trained” could be the whole point of this thread.
I think the point is that when a horse is working properly “over the back” certain muscles develop. It is Dressage, no matter what the “method”, not a sprinter vs stayer race horse comparison. 
I think that description is pretty bare bones. If it was as easy as it looks on the website there’d be dozens of instructors certified by now
Riding forward on big lines and avoiding the precision-crafted mince works on non wbs, too.
Here’s some ancient before and after video of a 14.3h pony-gaited appendix quarter horse that arrived at a hunter barn out of the back woods.
Time span between them is one 10 days.
Imagine if someone got on that paint pony and rode it forward for a few days. It’s such a foundational concept it’s beyond what type of horse you have or what discipline you’re doing. It’s just riding.
I see the legerete video and that pony just looks …stifled. So much talk of relaxing the jaw, what about allowing a full range of motion???
Yes, exactly!
There were other horses in the video who looked much better, and even the grey PK was riding in the second video. But the black one in the first video looks like someone had just rescued him or he had come off of a long box rest.
Where are these examinations to obtain a license done? In France? If so, that might be a big reason why there are so few outside of Europe.
I am not sure of the point you are trying to make.
These are 2 videos of a hunter rider riding a horse on the forehand, just a little faster in the second one.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
