Link to US map showing selenium levels in soil

If I look at the map, I’m in an area that is theoretically high in Se. In reality, most of the agricultural land around here has been so heavily used for so long that most of the minerals have been leached out of the soil.

I have one horse who has the same odd metabolism as msj’s horses–I have to supplement the heck out of him to keep his Se levels at anything like an acceptable level. I blood test him twice a year ($80 and three hundred phone calls to the vet’s office to get the results as they can never quite seem to get why this is so important to me) to make sure I’m not over- or under- cooking him. Since I’ve been supplementing fairly vigorously, he’s not tied up (crosses fingers, throws salt over shoulder…)

Luckily, the soil here in IL is rather Se-dense. :slight_smile:

sublime, do you guys have to worry about toxicity?

[QUOTE=JB;4082394]
sublime, do you guys have to worry about toxicity?[/QUOTE]

I’ve never really seen a Se toxicity in horses here, no. But you also very very rarely see it supplemented specifically. It’s in some general vitamins, but I honestly hadn’t even HEARD of Se deficiency/supplementation before COTH. :lol:

[QUOTE=msj;4082167]
Katy, Can I send my blood samples to you to get the selenium test for $12. My vet clinic charges $35 for the test and $15 for sample submission. :frowning: But it’s worth it to know where the horses stand. :slight_smile: :)[/QUOTE]

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/test/test.asp

I stand corrected. It’s now up to $15.75. I pay vet to draw and prepare blood, do all paperwork and shipping myself. Pay Cornell direct via credit card. Form on their site. Lots of leg work, but I work cheaper than most vets.

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;4082554]
http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/test/test.asp

I stand corrected. It’s now up to $15.75. I pay vet to draw and prepare blood, do all paperwork and shipping myself. Pay Cornell direct via credit card. Form on their site. Lots of leg work, but I work cheaper than most vets.[/QUOTE]

Katy, thanks for the website. :slight_smile: Cornell is about 2 hrs away so I could probably drive the sample down there or overnite it from here. I have to ask my vet practice if they send the sample to Cornell or if someone locally runs it.

I could draw the blood myself probably even though I haven’t had to do so in ~ 15 yrs.

Thanks again. :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=spotmenow;4082261]
Yes, I’ll get it off the bag in the morning…I’m in for the night. Hope no one overdoses in the meantime…:lol:

And before some nasty person posts some insulting comment, I am KIDDING. Actually, this free-choice system is VERY expensive; if I didn’t give a crap about my horses, I’d be throwing a $5 salt block from TS out in the pasture and be done with it.[/QUOTE]

spotmenow - I honestly think MOST people here are more concerned about the welfare of your horse than being insulting, but I know what you mean cause I’ve found a few that are AH’s. Have faith, most posters on this BB are pretty good eggs. :smiley:

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;4082554]
http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/test/test.asp

I stand corrected. It’s now up to $15.75. I pay vet to draw and prepare blood, do all paperwork and shipping myself. Pay Cornell direct via credit card. Form on their site. Lots of leg work, but I work cheaper than most vets.[/QUOTE]

Katy, would you please check the above url. I tried it and get nothing but this:

"Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error ‘80040e14’

[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near ‘<’.

/test/test.asp, line 34"

[QUOTE=msj;4083478]
Katy, would you please check the above url. I tried it and get nothing but this:[/QUOTE]

here’s the home page.

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;4083483]
here’s the home page.

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/[/QUOTE]

Thanks Katy. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=JB;4082160]

Can you get the analysis for the ABC product?[/QUOTE]

Okay, here is the guaranteed analysis off the bag: Salt (min) 93%, (max) 98% Selenium (min) 100 PPM

Let me be honest and tell you all that I am actually transitioning my horses off this complete system and will be using only their Redmond Salt and Rush Creek Mineral…I’m just using up what I have left. I’m doing so because I stopped using fortified grain and therefore need to use a multi-vitamin and would like to be able to “customize” each horse’s feed.

However, I used this system for several years with no issues, as has my trainer.

100ppm is 100mg/kg is 100mg/2.2lb is 45mg/lb is 2.9mg/oz. That’s quite a lot, especially if the horse is consuming multiple ounces on a regular basis. I would absolutely not be comfy using that, and I’m in a Se-deficient area.

[QUOTE=mvp;4082184]
JSwan-- thanks for the post. U S taxpayers (and others?) thanks for paying for the study and website. Both must have been expensive. Y’all rock![/QUOTE]

You’re welcome - but I didn’t intend for anyone to look at that map and decide to force feed their horse selenium.:lol:

I just thought it would be helpful for people to know what is probably in their local soils.

My land has been farmed since the 1600’s but the USGS maps aren’t showing what was in the soil in pre-colonial times. The maps show modern levels.

What some people may not realize is that their local soil can vary quite dramatically even one township to the other.

Pretty interesting stuff (I think). I think it may be appropriate to test the horse - especially if that horse has any diagnosed or suspected metabolic issues.

Perhaps Katy or a vet can answer this question but if a person wanted to know, but had a barn full of horses - it’s not really necessary to test the entire herd, is it? Can you test one, or take a random sampling?

If there can be any lesson learned from the recent tragedy of the polo ponies - it is that selenium dosage is nothing to be trifled with.

I have an absolutely TERRIFIC mapping website I’d love to share with y’all but it’s still in beta testing/phase. This one is more of a land use/planning type of site. Way cool if you’re concerned about what is going on with development patterns around your farm.

And even vary from yard to yard. My soil is red clay. All of it. As deep as you can dig. My neighbor’s property, also about 10 acres, is largely a really nice dark topsoil. Her property was fully wooded for eons before it was cleared. Mine was cow pasture for eons. So yes, even more local than townships can be different from the overall average.

Pretty interesting stuff (I think). I think it may be appropriate to test the horse - especially if that horse has any diagnosed or suspected metabolic issues.

:yes:

Perhaps Katy or a vet can answer this question but if a person wanted to know, but had a barn full of horses - it’s not really necessary to test the entire herd, is it? Can you test one, or take a random sampling?

Given that each horse metabolizes nutrients in a different way, it would be advisable to test every horse, particularly if you’re in a low or high area in general. And, if you found a deficiency and started supplementing, you need to test each horse again, as not every horse metabolizes each variety of Se in the same way.

I have an absolutely TERRIFIC mapping website I’d love to share with y’all but it’s still in beta testing/phase. This one is more of a land use/planning type of site. Way cool if you’re concerned about what is going on with development patterns around your farm.

That sounds way cool!!

[QUOTE=JSwan;4085472]

Perhaps Katy or a vet can answer this question but if a person wanted to know, but had a barn full of horses - it’s not really necessary to test the entire herd, is it? Can you test one, or take a random sampling? [/QUOTE]

JSwan - I’ve only got two horses in my barn and as I mentioned before, one horse gets 4 times to recommended amount and the other gets 3 times the recommended amount of Horse Health Vit E and Selenium Crumbles in order to test within range of 17-25.

At one point I switched to Vit E and Sel from another manufacturer but with the same amount of both Vit E and Sel and I tested the horses after they had been on it for 3 months to see if there was any difference. I gave the horses the same amount with both manufacturer’s and the selenium blood test came back exactly the same.

I will probably test the horses again this yr to make certain they are still in the acceptable range and if so, then I will probably not test for a 2 yr period.

Okay I must be dense but what do those numbers mean? I mean, what is ppm and where does it tell you what level your area should be? I dont get it. :confused:

[QUOTE=JB;4082160]
50x? You do realize it only took a 10x od to kill those polo ponies in a big fat hurry, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it was mainlined into the poloponies instead of fed as a supplement. It went straight to their hearts, lungs, etc. Their bodies had no opportunity to even try to filter it through their digestive systems, liver, kidneys, etc.

Like my post said, ppm is milligrams per kilogram. 1ppm is 1mg per 1kg. 100ppm is 100mg per 1kg. That’s the amount of the stuff in that weight of the product - 100mg of Selenium in 1kg (2.2lb) of product.

and where does it tell you what level your area should be? I dont get it. :confused:

That map in the OP tells you what a sort of mid-range level is. But that does not mean that if you live in an area that’s high, that your horse’s levels are high. Same for low levels. A horse’s overall diet should be roughly 3ppm - hay, grass, grain, etc, everything he eats. But even of your horse eats the “normal” amount, you do not know if his body is circulating a normal amount unless you test his blood.

[quote=DownYonder;4086888]Yes, but it was mainlined into the poloponies instead of fed as a supplement. It went straight to their hearts, lungs, etc. Their bodies had no opportunity to even try to filter it through their digestive systems, liver, kidneys, etc.
[/quote]

The point is that 2.9mg of Se per ounce, when the opportunity is there for a horse to consume many ounces a day if he wants, can quickly lead to a toxic situation. I didn’t imply that 1 day’s worth of intake would automatically make a horse toxic. But “free choice” means however much the horse wants, whenever he wants. That and 2.9mg/oz of Se do not mix well.

FWIW, I agree that what an individual absorbs is different that what it ingests. I think after a couple tests yearly, one could figure out which horses need more and then check every few years whenever other routine blood work is done.

I would agree, Katy, in a stable environment, (Har, Har…) but if you move barns or change hay source, particularly out here in the wild west where Se is “suppposed” to be very high, then I think a re-check is indicated. I also rechecked my horse about 4 months after we’d switched to organic Se, just to make sure I wasn’t overdoing it bearing in mind how much more bio-available it is supposed to be. Having said that, I feel I’ve pretty much got a handle on what’s going on with my boy now (dangerous thing to say…), so I probably won’t feel the need to test again for a year or so.