Well, one thing’s for certain: Hearing this about the Zitos has made me a lifelong fan. :yes:
Thanks to all who made Little Cliff’s ending a happy one.
[QUOTE=Beezer;3153014]
Well, one thing’s for certain: Hearing this about the Zitos has made me a lifelong fan. :yes:
Thanks to all who made Little Cliff’s ending a happy one.[/QUOTE]
Me too!
Okay, I’m going to put my flamesuit on again.
I’m very glad Little Cliff was saved and everyone involved in the process did a great job.
However, I think some people are being a little harsh. First off, I am in the racing business and had no idea Zito would take back any horse that was in trouble. Do they actually have to be on the way to auction or will he take back one you just don’t want anymore? Also, who really looks at foal papers? You claim a horse and they get transferred to your file - you never see them. I don’t find it strange at all that nobody paid attention to the papers.
Second, trainers like Zito who only take the very cream of the crop are very rare. Most trainers have some low end horses - I would not classify them as bottom feeders. Not at all. On BBs like this, people seem to think that all low level claimers are one step away from the slaughterhouse and it’s just not reality. And, to be honest, I’ve seen more callous treatment of cast-off horses from the big, highly respected outfits than I have from the “bottom feeders.”
Third, in my experience (and I do not know about the Philly area), the dealers that pick up horses on the backside are like any other dealer - they weed through the horses. Just because a horse is picked up off the backside, doesn’t mean it’s going to slaughter.
There are probably some trainers and owners to whom the money from the dealer is the key motivating factor. But, for most people, it’s the fact that it is expensive - really expensive - to keep a horse at the track and layup farms are just as bad. Plus, stall space is always at a premium. Trainers and owners make money to pay the bills and feed the rest of the stable by filling stalls with viable horses. THAT is what motivates people to move horses out quickly. It bothers me when I see people as a group being painted in broad strokes as completely uncaring. I know trainers and owners who ship horses off, but I don’t know any that wouldn’t rather see them go to a good home. But, you know what? Finding a good home - especially for a hurt horse - isn’t that easy. It seems easy when it’s a high profile horse or the owner threatens to send it to slaughter b/c then people rally around it. But, in the average situation, it’s not so easy.
I’m not condoning what happened to Little Cliff - not at all. And, I take care of my own and have several rescues on the feed bill, too. I’m just pointing out that the real bread and butter side of racing is different than it is frequently portrayed in places like this BB.
[QUOTE=DickHertz;3152381]
Be careful about your characterization. Most of the people I know at Penn National are strong advocates of saving horses from slaughter. Your view is a bit ethnocentric and it’s a little bit of a broad generalization. After all, Philadelphia Park
isn’t exactly a bottom feeder track. Most trainers there get $50 a day and do OK. Your characterization that just because you are at a cheap track means you are a butcher just isn’t fair.[/QUOTE]
You’re making a lot of assumptions. I said many, not all, and I was not picking out Philadelphia Park. I’ve worked in the Thoroughbred industry for 15 years and in rescue for almost 10. My husband was a trainer and trained quite a few claimers. And ethnocentric? I don’t think so. I guess it depends which part of the country you’re in.
I was basing my comments on the pps of the hundreds (maybe thousands) of horses I’ve reviewed that have gone through auction rings in the years that I’ve been keeping track, the level they were competing at and where they ended up. That’s all.
If you are worried were you’re horse is going when they say he got a “good home” why not have him put to sleep where he can die with dignity and you don’t have to worry where he is.
I agree whole heartedly. I’d rather know that my horse was buried on my property or cremated than always wonder where he was or if he’d been sent to slaughter. If you can’t be responsible enough to take care of your horses, then don’t have them.
And to the person who sent me the private messages condoning slaughter - there is never a good reason to send a horse to slaughter. If the horse has an issue, put it down.
An example regarding Nick Zito and his work with horses - Apr 16, 2007 “Horses in need get second chance at new centre”
Excerpt
Horses of all breeds in Kentucky who are currently in life-threatening situations will receive the gift of a second chance at the Kentucky Equine Humane Center (KyEHC), officially opens its doors today.
KyEHC is a first-of-its-kind facility, established with the specific goal of providing owners with a humane option when they need to give up their horses. The Center is located on a tranquil, 50-acre horse farm just outside of Lexington, Kentucky, which will be a safe refuge for at-risk horses of all breeds and disciplines. No horse in a precarious situation will ever be turned away. Adoptable horses will be placed in loving homes. Horses which are unadoptable due to chronic pain or permanent, crippling injuries will be humanely euthanized.
Kentucky Derby-winning trainer, Nick Zito (Strike The Gold and Go For Gin) and his wife Kim, are on the KyEHC board of advisors.
According to Nick, “Regardless of pedigree or performance, all horses have to be treated the same. Consequently, we all have the same responsibilities to meet those needs, whether we are working with Kentucky Derby winners or horses that are just horses. Again, they have to be treated the same.”
I’m not going to paint everyone with the same brush but Nick has been a trainer who has always made remarks about horses trying their best, how first and foremost is them coming back safe in a race, and how he sees joy in a horse who might run 4th in a race but tried the whole time. Nobody is a saint in the business. Yet I do think Nick and his wife Kim and Nick’s clients have worked consistently in trying to make it better for those horses he’s worked with.
As I cited before one of Nick’s good friend and client, Marylou Whitney, had a story not unlike Little Cliff not too many years ago: TB Times 9/2004 “Half brother to Birdstone and Bird Town rescued from slaughter”
“Thank God for these small organizations that are saving lives,” Hendrickson said on Wednesday while praising Deibel’s efforts. "Marylou and I both believe that we need to be responsible not just for their births and racing careers but also for their retirements.
“It did not matter that he was a half brother to Bird Town and Birdstone, other than it made for a more salacious story,” he added. “This was a horse we bred and we loved. We love all our horses.”
Adena Springs Farm has taken responsibility for their horses. They started an in-house program to start re-training their unsuccessful runners and find them new homes:
http://www.adenaretirement.com/
Hats off to them. I hope more farms will start doing something like this.
[QUOTE=equit8;3153412]
If you are worried were you’re horse is going when they say he got a “good home” why not have him put to sleep where he can die with dignity and you don’t have to worry where he is.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with this statement for horses that will never come sound, surely this is not a solution for large racing operations to ensure safety of their horses.
A) It’s not practical.
B) Do you really think the public image would be any better if hundreds or thousands of racehorses were “humanely euthanized” because their connections didn’t have the time or resourses to guarantee them a good home? I mean, look how people react to animal shelters that euthanize…
[QUOTE=Texarkana;3154612]
While I agree with this statement for horses that will never come sound, surely this is not a solution for large racing operations to ensure safety of their horses.
A) It’s not practical.
B) Do you really think the public image would be any better if hundreds or thousands of racehorses were “humanely euthanized” because their connections didn’t have the time or resourses to guarantee them a good home? I mean, look how people react to animal shelters that euthanize…[/QUOTE]
Many people already have their horses euthanized, healthy or injured. It IS a practical solution.
About 7-10% of slaughter bound horses are TBs (includes ALL TBs, racers, ex breeding stock, culls from farms, etc.) So it would be more like 7,000-10,000 euthanized. And yes that is still too many BUT if those very injured, unsound, dangerous horses, culls (usually crooked foals and yearlings), old broodmares and stallions were put down on the farm as they should be instead of being sent to a terrible death for $250 or so I doubt many would object too much. Unless they were willing to take on some pasture pets not much they could really object to. There are too many horses and not enough homes, some will HAVE to be euthanized. It is unfortunate that some of those will be animals that have earned a nice retirement from their owners for all the money they made them but it is still better than slaughter or being sold to a bad home.
The problem is when healthy horses and horses with minor injuries are sent straight to kill without even giving anybody a chance to take them. The need for that $200-300 taking precedence over an animal’s life in some cases and other cases sheer laziness or lack of caring to even ATTEMPT to contact a breeder, former owner or rescue or advertise them for sale. There are a lot of trainers/owners out there who simply do not care and do not want to be bothered to make the effort to make even ONE phone call much less answer several from potential buyers. It is a black mark on all of racing that these people are allowed to dispose of their horses this way. At least give them a CHANCE at a home.
Bravo for those who really care about the horses, people like Zito and Adena Springs.
Of course if they would breed less than 50,000 per year and limit stallions to no more than 40 mares per year, it might just make a real difference!
The current foal crop each year is around 35,000 (it varies by year of course). There IS a huge problem with people breeding too many cheap horses. While even the well bred horses produce duds what is the point of breeding bad horses to bad horses and expecting a miracle? It just doesn’t happen very often. For every miracle there are thousands of duds that should never have been bred in the first place.
Add me to the list of those who is a lifetime fan of the Zito’s!! Good for them (and the other folks mentioned) for doing the RIGHT thing!!
Bravo Zulu!!
[QUOTE=
B) Do you really think the public image would be any better if hundreds or thousands of racehorses were “humanely euthanized” because their connections didn’t have the time or resourses to guarantee them a good home? I mean, look how people react to animal shelters that euthanize…[/QUOTE]
The thing to focus on is what is best for the horses, not what the public would think. I think slaughter is a bigger PR nightmare than any sort of humane euthanasia. If you’ve ever been to an auction and seen what these horses go through, especially a horse straight off the track that hasn’t been turned out with other horses for a very long time and is suddenly pack into a small pen with a lot of horses, it is confusing, stressful and cruel. And that’s before they even go through the sales ring. If people had to actually be responsible for the horses they bred and owned maybe they’d breed fewer and there wouldn’t be as big a problem. I do know that if I had no options for my horses other than auction or euthanasia, I’d put them down.
Along with that, if you’ve ever been to a slaughterhouse (equine). While the processing is professional and clean, it is shocking to see them walk so calmly to a certain point, then just panic when they smell, followed by watch what is going on. It’s definitely a stressful, frightening thing for them.
[QUOTE=summerhorse;3155066]
The current foal crop each year is around 35,000 (it varies by year of course). There IS a huge problem with people breeding too many cheap horses. While even the well bred horses produce duds what is the point of breeding bad horses to bad horses and expecting a miracle? It just doesn’t happen very often. For every miracle there are thousands of duds that should never have been bred in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree, this is what it all comes down to, irresponsible breeding :mad: makes me incredibly mad that people are SO careless. I guess this is what happens though when people gamble with living animals, doesn’t matter so much when its poker or roulette.
[QUOTE=Centuree;3156294]
I completely agree, this is what it all comes down to, irresponsible breeding :mad: makes me incredibly mad that people are SO careless. I guess this is what happens though when people gamble with living animals, doesn’t matter so much when its poker or roulette.[/QUOTE]
Although the higher profile racing horses who are pulled from slaughter receive lots of recognition, broodmares don’t fare well at all. I can’t tell you the number of broodmares I’ve seen sold for slaughter at New Holland and while some of those are beauties and have good racing racords of their own, many of them should have never been bred for any discipline. This is made worse by the fact that it’s very expensive for rescues to take broodmares because they’ve been out of riding commission for so long that extensive retraining is required, and while all that training is going on other tbs are being sent to slaughter. In the long run more tbs can be saved from slaughter if those chosen are the horses who can be placed most quickly.
It’s only $60 to euthanize a horse at NH and nothing else is involved. I’ll never understand why breeders don’t take that route.
On the other hand I met a man yesterday who doesn’t send any of his horses to slaughter or rescues. He finds homes for them on his own. And like all owner/trainer/breeders wrapped up in one, he’s a very busy guy… and he made it on his own.
Summerhorse-
I can’t tell you how strongly I agree with you in regards to some of the more local/regionalized breeders just breeding one lousy horse to another (mediocre horses/lacking performance), producing another life all in the hopes that they’re going to get a runner that’s going to win the jackpot for them. For some of them it’s a ‘numbers’ game- and when these youngsters hit the track, do nothing but cost them money- they’re toted off to the sales. It’s always disheartening when we pull a horse (I work closely with Rigoletto/we’re rescue colleagues), see the pedigree/race record- see who the breeder is as we always make the attempt to call them to see if there’s anything they’d like to do to take RESPONSIBLITY for that life, and they could give a crap less (to those sensitive to broad generalizations, in fairness- there are many that do care).
It’s so frustrating as all one would like to do is scream to them ‘they cared when they chose that breeding!’ - when they made the decision to breed and bring another life into this world. It’s the breeder that decided to mate the stallion to the mare- to produce another life.
To me (as an individual that works to save ottbs), the most irritating aspect is confronting those breeders that play the ‘numbers game’.
For anyone interested- we’re preparing to save a few ottbs Monday (New Holland). AC4H is a federally recognized 501 © (3) non profit-
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ac4htbdivision/messages?msg=40.1
[QUOTE=Beezer;3153014]
Well, one thing’s for certain: Hearing this about the Zitos has made me a lifelong fan. :yes:
Thanks to all who made Little Cliff’s ending a happy one.[/QUOTE]
DITTO!!!
I may have missed something but I don’t see anywhere or anything that would indicate La Buzz Stables or that Roman Preciado doesn’t care about their horses? I’ve raised and sold livestock for slaughter and breeding stock all my life and can assure you I cared about each and every head. Its how we make our living to not care about them would be very folish and we’d be broke very soon.
